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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: scriv2 on Sunday 14 August 11 15:30 BST (UK)
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I have been looking without success for any Gibbons people in the 1881 census. They should be in the St Nicholas area of Newcastle, specifically in the area of The Close.
The main family is James Gibbons 1842, Mary Isabella 1849 with children Sarah Ann 1880, Mary Isabella 1878, James 1876 and Eliza 1872.
Thomas Gibbons or Harrison born 1866 and John Gibbons/Harrison born 1870 might also be with them.
I have tried every permutation possible, but to no avail. Does anyone know of any issues with the 1881 census in the Newcastle area?
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not much luck
1881 @ Hett Village Durham
John Graham Head 48 platelayer B Ferry Durham
Mary Wife 52 B Elland Northumberland
Jane Elliott Neice 36 general servant B " "
THOMAS HARRISON Visitor 15 Colliery Lab B pontyland "
Emily Elliot " 2 b Newcastle "
You may have already dismissed this.
I take it John and Thomas were sons prior to her marriage to James Gibbons ??
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Thanks Jacques.. I will have a look at that one again, but I'm sure 'our' Thomas Harrison was not born in Ponteland and think there is a Thomas born Ponteland who I have traced through later censuses. I will have a look again though in case I have missed anything.
Yes, both Thomas and John were born before her marriage, but Tom took the Gibbons name afterwards. Not quite sure when exactly. John was born John Gibbons Harrison in Gateshead in 1870.
The fact that there are no Gibbons to be found in 1881 makes me think they are grossly mistranscribed, or that census records are missing - but then again they could be with the extended family as more children are born. The earlier ancestors came from Northumberland/Durham.
Two of us have been working on it for a very long time. It's a puzzle certainly. Thanks very much for having a look.
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Can you give us any details of any birth places and occupations?
Thanks
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Yes, all born Newcastle upon Tyne, other than John Gibbons Harrison who was born in Gateshead.
James Alexander Gibbons was a labourer in 1891 in a woodyard, Mary Isabella was a dressmaker then had many children, then a grocer's assistant and shopkeeper.
Tom Harrison/Gibbons was a plate cutter, tile cutter and then tile manufacturer in later censuses.
All this plus family info indicates the family never went far from Newcastle.
Thanks for your interest, but I don't want you to waste too much of your time. I have spent hours and hours on this ???
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On there GenesReunited there is a Mary Harrison b 1849 Newcastle entered by a "Patricia Ann"
Any connection to you ?
do you have the birth cert for Sarah Ann b 1880, address may give a clue to whereabouts in 1881
Pam
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No connection I know of, jacques, but will have a look.
Yes, I think that might be the best thing to do re the birth certificate of Sarah Ann. She was christened at St Nicholas in March 1880.
Mary had two babies born and died in Sep Q 1882 - christened St Nicholas, so that does put her in the area still, even though I realise the area was far reaching.
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I have the 1881 census on disc - produced by LDS from the days before they put it online.
It searches slightly differently and sometimes I can find names on these which don't show up in the online version. It also comes with a set of name indexes.
Nonetheless I have searched everywhichway and with each individual name you have given and nothing is showing up. There are hundreds of Gibbons/Gibbon/Gibbin etc in the area (mostly in Durham) but none of yours seem to be there.
If they were still here, which seems likely, there must be some weird transcription error going on!
Christine
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Thanks so much for that, Christine. Are you burning the midnight oil as well??!!
Maybe they simply missed the census.... or the paperwork got lost in that area. The Close was probably a bit of a maze in those days and maybe the enumerator chickened out...or maybe the pages got spoilt.
Anyway, thanks very much for looking. I think I will give up for a bit on that one as I have also searched so many ways. I have tried all kinds of permutations and I am quite a skilled searcher.
Enough's enough I'm afraid.
Barbara
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I wonder if enumerators chickened out, or spoilt pages ?
Adam D Russell enumerated the St Nicholas's District 4, on 1891 census, which included the Gibbons family, at household schedule No 172 ( census page 4208-57-25) in 1 Groves Entry, Close.
Schedules 173-177 cover the folk in the rest of Groves Entry. The last residence at No5 Groves Entry was empty.
So Adam, a Commission Agent in nearby Franklin St ( 4205-19-35) enumerated seven households in Groves Entry, including one unoccupied.
( Groves Entry lay between numbers 72 Close and 63 Close)
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Turn the clock back to 1881 census.
St Nicholas's district 8 was enumerated by Robert Spence. ( I think he was an Exchange Porter , Assistant Tax Collector and some sort of money taker in Theatre Royal ? , 5058-18-30).
Census pages 5060-86-9 & 10 cover household schedules 35-41 which are for Groves Entry, including seven households. But no sign of a Gibbons
If I have worked this correctly both local census enumerators covered seven households for Groves Entry, perhaps pointing to fact that no household was overlooked in Groves Entry ?
But of course that does not find the Gibbons family on 1881.
Michael
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Oh dear, white flag - I stand corrected!
Thanks for all that, Michael... I didn't mean that enumerators deliberately spoilt papers, but that they might have got spoilt by water, ink blots etc or were illegible. However, I did wonder that enumerators might have found such closes a bit of a warren. I was making these judgements after wandering round the closes of Edinburgh and imagining enumerating those closes in bygone times. I enumerated in 1991 UK census, and whereas I did not 'chicken out' by any means, I had some areas that were a bit of a nightmare. From the 1891 census, Robert Spence was a rent collector in 1891, so not a stranger to visiting the households.
You have however uncovered an amazing bit of info here though. The census enumerator, Robert Spence, if one and the same as in my notes, has a nephew Joseph Edward Spence whose son will marry the daughter of Sarah Ann Gibbons b. 1880 - whom we are looking for now- much later in 1928!!! If you look at Robert Hudson Spence in the 1881 census ref RG 11 Piece 5058 Folio 18 /Page 30 Robert is resident at 14 Standfordham Place, St Andrew's Parish with brother John D Spence and family.
I just love these kind of finds - but, back to the drawing board, they are obviously not there then!!
Thanks so much once again.
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scriv, I was not correcting anyone, only adding extra info ( yes perhaps with a dash of sarcasm- lol).
Until Later...
Michael
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Seriously, I very much admire your line of thought there, Michael.. It would never have crossed my mind to look to the enumerator and their counting of the schedules in an area to compare censuses. Very impressive.
I have now decided to 'go' to Gateshead to see if the family is lurking there.
Best wishes, Barbara
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B,
Just back from quick visit to Tyne & Wear Archives ( an advantage to living in Newcastle)
Saw three bapts in St Nicholas's, Newcastle.
24 March 1880
Sarah Ann, dtr of James and Mary GIBENS , abode Close, labourer
2 July 1882 Stephen son of James and Mary Gibbons, abode The Close, labourer
2 July 1882 Isabell dtr of James and Mary Gibbons, abode The Close, labourer.
( I am keeping out of the perpetual arguement about whether name of thoroughfare is " Close" or "The Close")
So in spite of the Gibbons absence from the 1881 census down in Close, I think you can be assured that they were actually there at the time
Michael
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I just can't understand why they don't show up though. I have trawled through the images several times and have done countless forename searches. I guess they must be away somewhere, visiting!
I have tried the obvious family connections. Both sets of their parents had died by 1881, so there is nowhere obvious she might have gone to be looked after, for example. By 1881, she could still have had Tom aged 15, John Gibbons Harrison aged 11, Eliza aged 8, Mary Isabella aged 3 and Sarah Ann aged 1 at home. I wouldn't think she would want to go far.
Interestingly, I also can't find James in the 1871 census before he marries her later in the year.
Thanks so much for looking these up in the archives for me. I live near the Hampshire records office, so let me know if I can return the good deed.
Barbara