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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Herefordshire => Topic started by: mollymandysb on Sunday 14 August 11 13:50 BST (UK)
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Hi
help pls, can find emily on 1881 census as a 3 yr old visitor with the wilkins in llangaron, herefordshire. can only find her again when she marries a richard cole in birmingham 1900.
can any one find her on the 1891 census. have trawled through thousands of entries so far.
cant find a link with the wilkinsons. i have been told her moms name was maria(nee stevenson) but not sure of this.
thanks
molly
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Can you give the reference for the 1881 census please cos I can't see any Wilkins in Llangaron/Llangarren in 1881 or any of the other censuses :-\ also I could only find a Richard Cole marrying (possibly) an Emily Holmes in Aston. Do you have any more details you can give us please?
Cat :)
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hi
yes, emily did marry richard cole in aston, birmingham, he died after about two children and she married an albert brown after that.
on the 1881 census
sorry, it was wilson not wilkins. george wilson was born in 1831 in stroud he was 50, his wife was eliza wilson born 1833, welsh newtown. emily is a three year old visitor.
i know emily was born in peterstow, ross-on-wye.
i can find her birth record on freebmd as being 1877 peterstow, ross but nothing for her or her family in 1891 when she would have been 13. i know they were living in the ross on wye area. emily in fact at the age of 18 went to london to work at the elephant and castle but that is between census anyway.
thanks
molly
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Aaahhh so Emily is Emily HOLMES age 3, visitor in 1881, your heading says Emily BROWN so was looking for the wrong surname, didn't realise that was her 2nd married name. Will look again now I know thats the right girl....
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sooo sorry,
am getting a bit caught up in this, yes she is emily holmes, then cole then brown. i have been told her mother was a maria stevenson but not sure.
thanks
steph
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I think you may have to get a certificate or two because I can't find anything, I see in 1891 George and Eliza have another adopted daughter, so they maybe just take in illegitimate children or children whose mothers died and the father can't look after them. Do you have any of her marriage certificates with a father named?
(the only Emily Holmes I can find of the right age in 1891, is in Aston with "grandparents" Abraham and Susanne Forryan, but her birthplace is Birmingham) :-\
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Hi
i am trying to do this research for my elderly neighbour and her cousin (74 and 84). they know their gran was born in peterstow, emily holmes, said her mom was maria stevenson, she had her dad not sure what his first name was but ob surname was holmes, he worked on a farm with a mr holt. apparently, emily had siblings, a douglas, (cant find my bit of paper at the mo, always the same). must look for my paper work, i did find a mrs holmes at home with a new baby in 1881, but it did not tie in with the information the ladies had given to me.
will have to have another word with them. i am having a nightmare with their family research, i said 'yes i ll do that for you wont take me long' lol. send for a death cert for her gran on her dad's side, her dad had always said his mom died when he was 14 of a stroke and he went into barnardos. well the death cert states that he was 19 when she died of a heart attack and he registered the death, however, the electoral register for that year states that the house they put downwas empty at that time.
a mystery only going back to 1927 - so what chance of past 1841 i dont know, i have managed to go back to 1820 to tewkesbury tho.
molly
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Could she have been telling a few fibs or be mistaken maybe? -
1881 Sept quarter Marriage Emma Holmes to possibly a Henry Price
1881 census - Emma Holmes age 28 born Llangarron, servant in Lucas Household - Bridstow, Herefordshire
1861 Emma Holmes age 12 born and living in Llangarren with parents John and Maria
In 1891 census Henry and Emma are living with children Albert W, Charles H and Kate E, as well as a 13 year old Emily so she was born before their marriage in 1881 but I can't find Emily in 1881 under the name Price with either Henry or Emma, can you?? :-\
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And this would appear to be her grandparents marriage -
John Holmes Sept 1844 Blything 13 606
Bride - Maria Stevenson
Let me know if you need any of the census transcriptions if you don't have access
Regards
Cat :)
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Hi Cat
the last entry was prob the right one, john homes and maria stevenson, that is the name they gave me. i will be seeing both of them tomorrow afternoon - lovely home made cake and a cup of tea.
one last thing do you know where the marriage was then i can try and follow it through.
i am on Genes Reunited and ancestry at mo. my findmypast has just run out, i sometimes think you need to be on every site going - but that is very costly.
thanks
steph
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Hi Cat
have just checked marriage ref and they were married and born in suffolk. i can find them in llangaron in 1861 living at tower hil, with son john, daughters emma and jane all born in llangaron. this seems to be the right family.
i cant find them again in 1871 or 1881. my neighbour and her cousin seemed to think they were welsh and that they are buried in llangollen (I wonder if they mean llangaron).
thanks for your help
steph
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Hi Cat
have found them in 1851 john was born in 1806 in sibton suffok, with maria being born 1813, but i think that should read 1823 in mottenham, suffolk, they are living in llangaron herefordshire.
in 1871 maria is on her own with lodgers, so whether john has died i dont know, the emily holmes i am looking for was born in 1877, so whether she was illegitimate i dont know
but maria would have been 58, so dont know whether it was possible (it is today i know).
will have to ask the neighbours, athough i do remember their being a son called douglas and have not found him on any of the census forms, so might be the wrong family i have been following.
steph
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Theres a possible death for a John Holmes in 1865 Ross, Herefordshire.
I think, as Emma is clearly the daughter of John and Maria (nee Stevenson) and she has a daughter in 1891 census with her of the correct age/birthplace and first name, Emily, that she is likely to be the illegitimate daughter of Emma, probably conceived while she was working in service and "fostered" by the Wilsons until Emma married Henry Price and could bring her daughter to live with them. Maybe she was even led to believe Emma was her sister rather than her mother to avoid the stigma of being illegitimate. The birth certificate is the only thing I can think would confirm who her mother is, unless someone can find a baptism record :-\
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Theres a marriage for a Maria Holmes in December quarter 1873 to a John Beaven or Thomas Powell, and a death for a Maria Beaven in March quarter 1880 Ross
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Hi
yes, i think emma is the mother, as she was in service in monmouth for sometime.
i doubt if maria would have been the mother because she was well over 50, if she was born in 1822/3 she would have been 55 in 1877. one of the census puts her down as being born in 1813 but i think that is a mistake. john was born in 1806/11 so was quite a bit older than her.
i am seeing my neighbours tomorrow and will send for birth cert if that s what they want. sometimes people want to believe in what they do and not take what is put in front of them as gospell. i spoke to my neightbour briefly tonight and she was insistent on john and maria being buried in llangollen, but i think its llangaron which is not as well known as the other.
thanks for all your help. if they do send for the cert i will let you know the outcome.
molly
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Hi Cat 1
just to let you know how my meeting with my neighbour and her elderly cousin.
well my neighbour was quite excited waiting to tell her cousin that grannie was illegitimate, 'she wont like that, she said' anyway over a cup of tea and a slice of cake, she told her. the cousin pursed her lips and i waited for the onslought. i was gobsmacked when she said ' yes, i know all about it, grannie told me and told me never to tell anyone that she was emmas daughter and that they changed hr name to price, but she changed it back again'.
did that take the wind out of everone!!!!, the argument then got under way, why did you not tell me when i asked you, grannie said not to. grannie died in 1957.
makes you wonder what some of these older people know but wont tell.
i left them by saying it does not really matter now.
I felt as if i had tried to help in finding her fam history, as she asked, but to ony stirr up things with her cousin.
thanks for all your help.
steph
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:) Isn't it annoying when you find something out only to have the wind taken out your sails by them saying "oh yes I knew that" !! Sometimes the elder generation seem to like to keep family secrets to themselves, they don't seem to realise that things that mattered back then, don't matter now and everyone would only look out of interest not a sense of scandal anymore.
Thanks for the update anyway, its always interesting to know the outcome :)
Regards
Cat
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well i left the biddies (I am 63 myself so i think i should be able to get away with it) to their bickering.
i have researched her dad's side of the family and i dont think they liked the outcome to that.
they are convinced that there was money involved but i cant find any link except the surname was the same. also they are convinced the grand mother was a concert pianist who played before the king george v at buckingham palace, when i sent for the death cert, it says her son registerd the death at an age when they said she was dead and he had put down that her occupation was a dressmaker, also he put down that his dad was a plumber, but the cousin said i dont think that s right he was into money. in fact, he died whilst playing rugby. nothing in the archives to suggest that so he was not a professional. atho they said a better class of person played rugby instead of football.
well i will leave them with their memories.
thanks again
steph
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well i left the biddies (I am 63 myself so i think i should be able to get away with it) to their bickering.
i have researched her dad's side of the family and i dont think they liked the outcome to that.
they are convinced that there was money involved but i cant find any link except the surname was the same. also they are convinced the grand mother was a concert pianist who played before the king george v at buckingham palace, when i sent for the death cert, it says her son registerd the death at an age when they said she was dead and he had put down that her occupation was a dressmaker, also he put down that his dad was a plumber, but the cousin said i dont think that s right he was into money. in fact, he died whilst playing rugby. nothing in the archives to suggest that so he was not a professional. atho they said a better class of person played rugby instead of football.
well i will leave them with their memories.
thanks again
steph
I have been watching this thread and Steph I think that you deserve a medal
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i could not have done it without the help of cat1. but it gets worse, the older of the cousins rang yesterday to say she was really interested in the research and that she had gone upstairs to where she keeps all her old things and found the family bible with 'loads more names in it' lol,
it just makes you wonder how many people have family history artifacts hidden away in their lofts.
steph
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Sound interesting, you'll have to post again if you get stuck, we all like a challenge :)
Good Luck! Sounds like you need it! :)
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Hey mollymandysb,
This is my direct family you are asking about, i would love to get in contact with you or find out who you are doing the research on behalf of :)
Please message back on here if you are still using this and we can maybe share emails.
Thankyou
Amy E
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Hi,
I was very excited to find this thread.
I have been trying to research Emily Holmes - Richard Cole - Albert Brown for some time and up until now, have only found 'sketchy' information.
I can confirm that Emily Married Richard Cole in 1900 at Birmingham.
She then married Albert Edward Brown in 1908.
Emily and Albert Edward Brown are my grandparents.
If you need any further information about their descendants, I would be happy to help.
Your research has certainly helped me.
Sincere thanks,
Ivor
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Hi ivor, I would love to talk to you as they are also my direct family. Can you email me on (*) please :)
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Hi Amy,
I've sent you email. Would like to chat with you.
Ivor
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Hi ivor, please accept my apologies I put my email address down wrong so sorry (on my phone not computer so a bit hard) my email is (*)
Please drop me another email on this.
Also anyone else who is researching or any bing with this family please do email me, I would love to hear from you and share stories and pictures.
Thanks
Amy
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No problem, Amy.
Email has been resent.
Ivor