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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Cork => Topic started by: Westozi on Sunday 14 August 11 01:48 BST (UK)
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My 2xg grandfather was TIMOTHY DONOVAN, said to have been born in Clonakilty in 1833. He migrated to Australia in 1857. On marriage/death certificates his parents names are JOHN DONOVAN and MARY KUHANE. Siblings (apparently) are Daniel (b.1835), Mary (b.1842) and Michael all of whom seem also to have migrated to Oz. Love to find a baptism for Timothy or more info about his parents - anything, really! The family were Roman Catholics and I'm assuming they were quite poor.
We have a letter written by Timothy's nephew who visited Clonakilty during WWI trying to find members of the family and mentions going to "Virgin Mary's Bank" - was this where the family had once lived? We don't know. ANY help would be wonderful!
Regards
Ann
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There are a Tim Donovan born 1830 and a Daniel Donovan born 1833 to John Donovan and Mary Keohane in the RC parish of Roscarbery & Lissevaird:
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/0e8aab0256482
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/ce1a970257385
I did not look for other siblings.
Also, there is a risk that there could be other couples with the same names in the same area around the same time, so more research will be required. Another caveat: not all available records are online, and there are more due to come online in September.
Garranagoleen is in the barony of Ibane & Barryroe in the civil parish of Kilkerranmore.
There are Keoghanes and Donovans in that townland in Griffith's Valuation:
http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=doNameSearch&PlaceID=330115&county=Cork&barony=Ibane%20&%20barryroe&parish=Kilkerranmore&townland=Garranagoleen
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Gosh, that was a quick reply! Thank you. I hate to sound ignorant but would Keoghane/Keohane sound something like Kuhane when Anglicised?!
Ann
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To the best of my knowledge, I think the local pronunciation makes it sound like Q-hane.
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Hi Ann,Virgin Mary's Bank is the name given to the headland at the southern most point of Inchydoney Island about three miles from Clonakilty,the island is connected to the mainland by causeways.The Island would of had very few inhabitants if any at that time.The Irish census records are online and free to search from this link http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/ .Also Google maps will show Inchydoney and if you look at where the hotel is positioned then Virgin Mary's Bank is directly in front of this.
Regards
Brendan
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Hi -
I have a Keohane family in Boston that may very well be from this area. I think I found them in Inchydoney in the 1901 census (Michael Keohane / Nora Donovan). On the passenger records of one brother and Naturalization records of another, they merely said they were from Island, Clonakilty, Cork. Does that sound right for this area?
These Keohane's actually ended up in Cambridge MA and their first stop upon arrival was a home owned by Donovan's married to Hurley's.
thx
Kevin
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Hi Kevin,
The only time I've ever heard of the Island been used as a place name in Clonakilty always referred to Inchydoney as far as I'm aware, in all my time living here I've never heard anywhere else been referred to as the island so your probably right with the Keohane family you've found on the census records in your research. The island itself had few inhabitants as can be seen from the census records and many of these would have been tenant farmers up to a certain time.
Regards
Brendan
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Hi Kevin and Brendan
Thanks Brendan. It’s always good to get local knowledge about an area - I’m from West Australia and I’m presuming Kevin is in the US.
Regarding my Donovan/Keohane family, the son Timothy migrated to Australia in 1857 and his siblings (Daniel, Michael and Mary) either at the same time or a year or so apart. Their births range from 1833 to 1842 (so far as I can tell from marriage and other certificates).
I did a search of that first link given to me by SKIBGIRL, by putting in the parents names (John Donovan and Mary Keohane) and found with 27 children born to parents with those names! Dates or birth range from 1820 to 1873 – a 53 year span! The only conclusion to be reached is that there was more than one set of parents/family with the same names.
Your Keohanes, Kevin, may well be related to my Mary Keohane. You didn’t give the year of birth so it’s hard to tell but with families using the same Christian names generation after generation, it makes it difficult for family historians to figure things out!
Regards
Ann
???
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Hello Ann -
I have irish relatives in Australia, but thru my O'Sullivan line. Most of my Irish came to the States and primarily to the Boston area.
Anyways - I have spent some time with these Keohane (and the variable spellings including Cuhane) over the weekend and it appears this Keohane family is from The Island. Not only did I find some of the younger siblings in the 1901 census, but I found baptismal records on irishgenealogy.com that say "Island". I am almost certain this is the Keohane family I found in Cambridge MA.
I should note, I am only related to this Keohane family thru marriage. I will list the family below - but Patrick Keohane married Mary Ellen Hurley from Ballymacshoneen in Cambridge MA - she being a sister to my great grandfather Daniel Hurley. The reason I was tracing out this family is because when these Hurley's, Keohane's and Donovan's (I will explain) arrived in the US, they all used the same addresses: 13 Fourth St, 20 Bristol St, or 6 Bristol St in Cambridge. I assumed they were all related, or at the very least knew each other in Cork.
A Timothy Donovan who married a Mary Hurley owned 13 Fourth St. A Jeremiah Donovan (a brother to Timothy Donovan I believe) who married a Nora Hurley owned 20 Bristol. A Keohane family also lived at 20 Bristol. A Keohane family also owned 6 Bristol.
The Keohane family from Island was:
Michael Keohane b. ~1831
Nora Donovan b. 1849
Looks like they married in July 1863
Known/probable children were:
Margaret 1864
John 1867 (migrated to Cambridge)
Nelly b. 1868
Laurence b. 1872 (in Ireland 1901)
Michael b. 1874 (migrated to Cambridge)
Kate b. 1877 (in Ireland 1901)
Patrick b. 1878 (migrated to Cambridge)
James b.1885 (in Ireland 1901, migrated to Cambridge)
Phillip b. 1889 (in Ireland 1901)
These are the children I know of.
These families are all from West Cork. I am not certain how they are related other than possibly thru the Donovan's - who I know the least about. The Hurley's are from Ballymacshoneen. The Keohane's are from The Island. I have the various Donovan families traced in Boston....but not sure where they came from, other than Cork.
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Hi Brendan,
My name is Lesley and I am your mum's cousin. Your granddad (Tony) is my mum's (Margaret, known as Beanie) brother. It would be fantastic if we could get in contact.
Lesley
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Anne.
I came across this site and your entry by accident.
I am descended from Mary Donovan, the brother of Timothy Donovan and who came to Australia with another brother Daniel on the ship the "Tasmania".
Are you aware of the documentation of the Donovan's by a Fr Browne undertaken during the 1970s and 1980s. I presume Fr Browne has died by now, but I can refer you to someone who has access to some of his documentation.
My current interest in the Donovan's is because I will be visiting Clonakilty in the near future.
Regards
John
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Hello John
How exciting to hear from another Donovan descendant.
Yes, I have a copy of Father Browne's booklet, thank you.
How fabulous to be visiting Clonakilty. I didn't make it there when I was in Ireland two years ago. I do have a tiny bit of information that might be of interest to you when you make your trip. Below is an extract of a letter written by Timothy Donovan's nephew (another Timothy), son of Daniel who was a soldier in WWI.
Hardcott 10.1.1918 letter to Maggie:
"Well, I had a great time over Christmas visiting my relations in Ireland. ...
Well, I had to leave Balinderry on Saturday before New Year as I wanted to go to Clonakilty where Dad came from. I did not like leaving the people as they were so nice, but had to go as I was due back here on 2nd January. It took me all day to get to Clonakilty. I had written to the Parish Priest about three weeks previously, giving him all particulars I had about Dad's folk. I thought he would easily be able to trace Dad's sister that was married to O'Brien - or some of their family. However, when I went to see him on Sunday morning, he said he had got my letter and was waiting until I came along to make enquiries. He must have thought I was a tourist with plenty of time. He told me there were 70 odd families of Donovan in the parish, and several O'Briens, but could not enlighten me any further. I went out to the Virgin Mary's Bank, and I enquired at several houses but most of the people had come there of late years and could not enlighten me. I could not even find out for certain where the old home was, but saw one place, still inhabited, that Donovans lived in some years ago. Also another old house that had been deserted for years - only the stone walls remain. One of the two, probably the latter, must be it. They told me that a family of O'Briens left that locality about 15 years ago. I think they were Dad's sister's children."
How did he know to look for "Virgin Mary's Bank"?! But it may be a clue for you!
Best wishes
Ann
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Ann
Glad to hear that you are aware of the work undertaken by Fr Brown.
Mary Donovan married Arthur O'Leary, the son of Michael Leary and Mary O'Neill. On their marriage certificate Arthur's place of birth is given as Knocklea, Conakilty, County Cork, Ireland. From this info, my brother was to find info on Michael from the Griffiths Valuation and Arthur's baptism entry. My brother has visited Clonakilty and was able to find Michael Leary's gravesite.
By ocontrast, Mary's place of birth on both her marriage and death certificates is given as County Cork, Ireland. The marriage certificate gives her parents names as John Donovan and Mary Cuhane.
It is only through Fr. Browne's documentation that we know that Mary was from Inchydoney.
I am not sure what you have learnt about the Donovan's from when you first posted a couple of years ago.
I have been able to find reference to John Donovan in the Griffiths valuation. The timing of the Griffiths valuation for Inchydoney seems to have been around 1851. So Mary, Timothy and Daniel would have been born, but a few years away from leaving Inchydoney for ever and migrating to Australia.
I am hoping to learn more about John Donovan before I go overseas.
Although Mary arrived in Australia almost 150 years ago, she has a special place in our family. Apparently my father was very sick when he was born and was not expected to live. His paternal grandmother Mary Donovan nursed him back to health. My father would have been about 5 Years old when Mary died.
Please let me know if you have any additional information about the Donovan's from Inchydoney. I will let you know what I find out.
John
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Hello John
I've looked through my files both on computer and hardcopy and made a few notes for you.
1) Yes, Daniel Donovan and Mary Donovan came out on the “Tasmania” in December 1858 but Timothy’s name is not on that passenger list (and neither is Michael’s).
2) Timothy came out as an assisted migrant on the "Broughton Hall" in April 1857. As the age is given as 25, this is most likely the right person.
3) Daniel Donovan and Margaret Maguire married 1865 in Warrnambool, Certificate 3 of 1865. Daniel’s parents’ names given as John Donovan and Mary Kuhane.
4) Note that there are various spellings of Mary’s surname (Cuhane, Kuhane, Keohane).
5) I have found possible baptism records for Daniel Donovan of parents John Donovan and Mary Keohane (address Gurrancagoleen, Recorded Parochial Area: Rossalettiri & Kilkeraunmor (Roscarbery & Lissevard)) and another for Timothy Donovan with same parents and same address, etc. (Found on churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie) Are these our family? I’m not sure.
6) What Australian certificates I have all just say the same as you found for Mary – Co Cork, Ireland.
7) I haven’t noticed the place name Inchydoney in Father Browne’s booklets.
Not sure how helpful any of this is!! But I do hope you can find out more information on your travels and look forward to hearing from you.
Regards
Ann
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Ann
(a) Are you aware of the https://thedonovans.wordpress.com/ website? It contains files from Fr Brown. It is from attachments on this website that I determined that Mary Donovan came from Inchydoney.
(b) Were you aware that there was a Donovan reunion held in Colac Victoria in 1974?
(c) I have a copy of "A genealogy of the descendants of Timothy Donovan and Margaret O'Dowd, Australian pioneers" by Francis X Brown O.P. dated 1974. It runs for about 10 pages. According to this document Timothy and Margaret had seven children: Mary, John, Rose, Margaret, Helen Elizabeth, Catherine and Anne. Which of these seven would be your grandparent?
(d) I also have a copy of the family tree of Daniel Donovan and Margaret McQuire as at 1974. it contains 252 names. Fr Brown is a descendant of Daniel and Margaret.
(e) Not surprisingly I also have a copy of the family tree of Arthur O'Leary and Mary Donovan as at 1974.
(f) From what I can discern Mary Donovan of "Island" was baptised in Clonakilty Catholic Parish on the 3rdApril 1844. Her parents were John Donovan and Mary Cahalane. The sponsors were John Donovan and Kath Driscoll. These details would be consistent with Mary coming to Australia in 1858 aged 16. The spelling of her mother's name is different from what is on her marriage certificate, but this is understandable.
(g) My understanding is that "Island" is an administrative parish in the County of Cork and the island of Inchydoney is part of the parish of "Island'.
(h) There was a Tim Donovan also of Island whose parents were Jno Donovan and Mary Cahalan baptised on the 31 October 1846. His sponsors were Jno (John?) Cahalan and Ellen Deasy. I am presuming that these are the same parents as Mary's parents.
(i) I agree with you that only Daniel Donovan and Mary Donovan came out on the “Tasmania” in December 1858 and that there was a Timothy who came out as an assisted migrant on the "Broughton Hall" in April 1857. If this is correct, it is unlikely that this is the same Tim Donovan who was baptised in 1846. Also on the "Tasmania" was a lawrence Donovan. Not sure where he fits in.
(k) According to Fr Brown eleven Donovan children were born to John Donovan and Bridget Kuhane. [I think the Bridget should be Mary, but never discount anything.] Some Donovans went to America, some to Australia, and some (mostly spelling it O'Donovan), carry the name in Clonakilty to this day. Four came to Australia: Timothy, Daniel and Mary who arrived together in Melbourne at the end of 1858 and Michael who arrived later.
(l) So if John and Mary Donovan had eleven children, who were the others and when and where were they born?
(m) My limited research to date is leading me in the direction as you. A Tim Donovan of Guarranangoeen was baptised on 2 October 1830 in the Catholic parish of Rossalettiri and Kilkeraunmor. His parents were John Donovan and Mary Keohane. Are these the same parents as Mary's parents?
(n) Others who were baptised from Guarranangoeen (or different spellings of the same name) and who seem to have the same parents are:
Patrick 7 December 1822
John 11 February 1824
Ellen 30 August 1825
James 15 May 1828
Daniel 28 December 1933
Denis 31 December 1836
Honora 27 October 1839
Michael 26 August 1844
Patrick 9 June 1848
Kate 24 September 1849
Given that Mary was baptised in April 1844 and that Michael was baptised on 26 August 1844, my guess is that we are looking at two different families. It is starting to get confusing.
(o) the Tim that was baptised in October 1830 would have been aged around 26-27 in 1857. This is consistent with the the age of the Tim Donovan that arrived on the "Broughton Hall" in 1857.
(p) From my understanding "Virgin Mary's Bank" is a prominent landmark on the island of Inchydoney. The Inchydoney Island Lodge hotel is located nearby.
Hope this helps. It answers some questions, but raises many more and as I stated earlier i have just started trying to make sense of the Irish records. There may be other information that I have missed.
Regards
John
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Checking in with my Clonakilty Donovans to try to make a connection.
My great-great grandmother Catherine Jane (Kate) Donovan was born in Clonakilty in April of 1856. Her birth record shows her parents as John Donovan and Cath Lyne. Other siblings include: Mary Donovan born 1840, Ellen Donovan born 1846, Honora Donovan born 1848, Cors Donovan born 1851, Randals Donovan born 1858. These are the ones for which I can find records.
I know from an old article that there may have been more as Kate's son, Robert Dorgan, mentions his cousin John Thomas (J.T.) Donovan, a former M.P. from Ireland. And I can't place a John with Cors or Randals. Kate married Patrick Dorgan and emigrated to Boston to join her children. Patrick Dorgan and several children died in Ireland and are buried in the old cemetery above the town. I have an old photo of their headstone and records of all of the Dorgan children's birth.
I've not been able to connect John Donovan to any other Donovans from the area.
I note that in the year that in the months surrounding Ellen's baptism in 1850, the following other Donovans are listed in the register:
John to Tim Donovan and Mary Neil- June 26 1846
John to Michael Donovan and Julia Carroll July 1 1846
Ellen to John Donovan and Mary Sawny July 3 1846
Cath to James Donovan and Cath Moor July 12 1846
James to Pat Leahy and Ellen Donovan July 24 1846
Thomas and Rich to John Sullivan and Anne/ Donovan Aug 5 1846
James to Tim Donovan and Ellen Carthy July 25, 1846
Mary to Pat ? and Mary Donovan Aug 8, 1846
Ellen to John Donovan and Cath Lyne Aug 23 1846
Andrew to John Donovan and Mary Lehane Aug 26, 1846
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Welcome to RootsChat auntmarycat.
I have just moved the topic to county cork, this was a little confusion to what county this comes under hopefully it now in the correct place.
Westozi has been notified of your reply and was only online just yesterday so hopefully will reply to your first post very soon.
Regards
Sarah
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Hello Auntmarycat
I apologise for taking so long to reply. Sorry, but I really don't think there's any connection between our Donovan families - or at least, no obvious one. I don't recognise any of the names that your were Donovans married to, and even some of the Donovan names such as Cors and Randall.
Hope you find more connections soon!
Best wishes
Ann
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Hello John
Oh my word, all that information you have given me!! (And I apologise to you, too, for taking so long. Just so busy with the football club and other things I'm involved in)
(a) I hadn't seen or heard of that website you gave me before. So much info on there. It's brilliant! Thank you. (I have made a copy of the pages relevant to Timothy so I can go through it at my leisure)
(b) No, didn't know about the Donovan reunion in 1974. I'm in WA so a bit far for me in any case.
(c) I am descended from Timothy and Margaret Donovan through their daughter Catherine (1870-1956)
(i) Thank goodness someone else agrees with me that Timothy Donovan did not come out with his siblings Daniel and Mary. Here are some notes I made for myself some time ago:
Information on Timothy Donovan’s death certificate says he was 78 years old when he died in 1910 and had been 50 years in Australia – meaning he was born in approximately 1832 and arrived in Australia in approximately 1860.
The Timothy Donovan on the index to Unassisted Inward Passenger travelling on the Broughton Hall was aged 25 in 1857. (This Timothy Donovan would therefore have been born 1832 and would have been in Australia 53 years in 1910, the time of Timothy’s death).
The Register of Assisted British Immigrants 1839-1871 has one Timothy Donovan aged 21 travelling on the Chowringhee in July 1852. (This Timothy Donovan would have been born 1831 and at the time of Timothy’s death in 1910 he would have been in Australia 58 years).
Therefore, the Timothy Donovan from the Broughton Hall is the one most likely to be my ancestor.
More notes I've made about his possible birth: There are a Tim Donovan born 1830 and a Daniel Donovan born 1833 to John Donovan and Mary Keohane in the RC parish of Roscarbery & Lissevaird
Oh dear, it's all just so confusing. I'll have an attempt at PM-ing you and see if we can email each other so I can get a grip on who's who!!
Regards
Ann
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In regards to the Donovan's - Daniel, Mary and a Lawrence are listed on the Tasmania (1858). I can't find any trace of Lawrence. Am I right to think, the name was put down incorrectly, and should be Timothy.
The other thing, James O'Leary is listed on the Tasmania (1858). Are we assuming this is Arthur O'Leary, that Mary Donovan married later?
Brian
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Hi Brian
It's possibly that the Lawrence listed on the "Tasmania" with Daniel and Mary should have been "Timothy" but I really don't think so given that I believe Timothy was born in 1832 (going on his age at time of marriage and at time of death). I know it's only a three year difference but I believe it more likely that the Timothy Donovan who came out on the "Broughton Hall" was our Timothy because the age of this Timothy is closer to the ages as stated above.
The family histories say that Timothy came out with Daniel and Mary on the Tasmania but the proof is in the shipping list - the person that came with Mary and Daniel is listed as Lawrence!
The family histories also say that Daniel was born on Christmas Day 1835 yet Timothy is said to be the older brother! As the histories are only recollections written some generations later, I don't believe they are very exact.
I can't find Lawrence either. There is a Lawrence Donovan from Clonakilty who was a sailor/master but I can't see this being one of our family.
Yes, it has been assumed that the Arthur Leary/O'Leary on the Tasmania is the person Mary Donovan married.
Regards
Ann
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Thanks for your response.
As it turns out, 2 Fogarty brothers marry 2 Donovan/O'Leary cousins -
6th born - 07-PF & EC, 06 of 11 John (1864-1906) m Margaret DONOVAN (1868-1953) in 1887.
11th born - 07-PF & EC, 11 of 11 Daniel (1874-1943) m Ellen O'LEARY (1872-1953) in 1896.
That Margaret Donovan had it tough - her mum dies when she is 4 in 1872, her husband dies in 1906 (leaves her with 11 children), her only brother dies in 1907 tragically) then her dad dies in 1910 - 3 inquests in 4 years.
Brian
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How interesting that the children married into both families! They certainly had it tough back then!
Regards
Ann
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Hmm.
I was about to put pen to paper and noticed that an
Arthur Leary arrived on the Hilton in 1860, aged 23.
And above him on the manifest a Daniel Donovan, aged 30.
Any thoughts?
Brian
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It is possible as the marriage certificates of both occurred after 1860 however all family histories I've read say that 3 siblings arrived on the Tasmania. Whether this is from personal memory or just hearsay I don't know. I thought you might be interested in the following notes I made some years ago.
"An entry in his Bible by Daniel Donovan tells us what little we know about his Irish forebears. Eleven Donovan children were born in Ireland to John Donovan and Bridget Kuhane in the first half of the nineteenth century. Some of the family migrated to the United States; four came to Australia: Timothy, Daniel and Mary arrived together in Melbourne at the end of 1858; Michael Arrived later.
About Michael little was known till recently, until (April 1994) Mr Les O’Callaghan of Warrnambool, active in several Historical Societies, has turned up for me some information from among State Records of Births Deaths and Marriages. Michael is listed as having been born in Cork in 1845. He died in Warrnambool 1926 at the age of 76, {Cert. no 7926} and married Catherine Looney (1856-1945) some time between June and December 1876, {Cert no 4329}. Catherine was the daughter of Daniel Looney and Catherine Kelleher.
This is from a website that John O'Leary told me about - and is not necessarily true! It was thought that John Donovan's wife's name was Mary Keohane"