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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Yorkshire (West Riding) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Jenny72 on Tuesday 09 September 08 21:56 BST (UK)
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I'm trying to find the maiden name of Thomas Wilcock's mother Ann. He was born in Silsden in 1799 according to the IGI and his father was called Thomas Wilcock also.
I think I've exhausted searching online so does anyone know where I can find Silsden parish records to have a look at? (I'm quite new to this and so far all research has been online).
Thanks in advance
Jenny
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Hi Jenny,
welcome to Rootschat, ;D
I have parish records for Silsden and can confirm your details:
Thomas Wilcock, son of Thomas and Ann of Holden, a weaver, bp 17/11/1799
Sorry no maiden name given :'(
Not sure where Holden is? I imagine that could be where they were married. Perhaps someone else can help there.
If there is anything else you need from the Silsden parish registers just ask .
Margaret
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Hi Margaret
Thank you so much for having a look for me.
I have searched for a Holden in the area but can't find one. Do you think it means that Ann was born in Holden or that they were both living in Holden when Thomas was baptised?
What a shame that there's no maiden name! I had imagined it may have been Ann Dinsdale but she was born in Otley so maybe not. I seem to have come to a dead end there then!
Thanks again,
Jenny
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I am pretty sure it means that they are from that place. not born there but living there.
Thinking perhaps the Holden may be a mistranscription, as I googled and could not find anthing suitable.
The nearest I can think of is Houden, and I think I have that spelt incorrectly.
But I know there is a place in Yorkshire of similar word :-\ sorry not much help there.
Might I suggest you put up a new query, to catch others attention.
Subject - Holden, where is it?
do you have any census details on this couple that might shed light on where they are from, 1841 will only state if born in this county.
Usually the couple are married in the parish of the wife.
Margaret
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There is a Howden in East Riding Yorkshire.
Margaret
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Margaret
Thank you. I think you are right as I've been Googling and found that Silsden itself does have an area called Howden. I wonder if this could be where Ann was from. I think it's probably as close as I'll get!
Unfortunately I don't have any information at all about them. The only definite bit of information I have about any of them is that Thomas b.1799 married Zillah Shackleton in 1832 and I've found Thomas and Zillah in census records.
Jenny
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I will have another look through the parish records and see what I can find.
Margaret
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Thank you Margaret, very kind of you.
I'm also wondering, after thinking about mistranscription, whether Ann Dinsdale (who I originally thought could have been Thomas Wilcock b.1799's mother) could have actually been born in Utley (just next to Howden, Silsden) and not Otley as per the IGI.
I'll keep Googling!
Jenny
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Sorry Jenny, I may have to take back my comment on Holden being a mistranscription :-[
It has turned up as a place in the Kildwick parish registers.
Found the following details from Kildwick p.r.'s
Marriage:
Thomas Wilcock of Farnhill, woolcomber, widow, to Ann Dinsdale of Kildwick, spinster on the 22/2/1802
Thomas Wilcock, of Kildwick, a husbandman, bachelor, to Jane Widdop of Holden, a spinster on the 11/11/1777 (interesting)
This Thomas was buried at Kildwick on the 7/2/1780, his wife Jane, buried on the 19/2/1780
Thomas of Farnhill, woolcomber, bachelor married a Tabitha Mason of Silsden, a minor on the 1/4/1793
They had:
son John in 1793 (12/8/1793)
son Robert in 1795
Tabitha died in 1796
Tabitha, wife of Thomas of Farnhill, a woolcomber buried on the 4/1/1796, age 20.
So it is my guess that it is this Thomas who has remarried - to Ann Dinsdale.
Issue of Thomas Wilcock and Ann Dinsdale.
Mary in 1803
Hannah in 1805
Elizabeth in 1806
state father is a woolcomber of Farnhill.
Can provide full details if you wish.
However, the marriage of Thomas and Ann is too late for your Thomas (1799) and I cannot see a Thomas born out of wedlock under the name Dinsdale. in Kildwick parish registers.
Sorry, think I have confused you even more. Will keep looking.
Margaret
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me again ;D
The Silsden parish registers also have a John and Ann (Hannah) Wilcock from Holden Top.
I put up 'Holden Top, Yorkshire parish registers' in google and came up with a site for the Thornber family.
Unfortunately cannot put the site up for you.
But it stated:
Holden is a small village about a mile west of Bolton by Bowland, 4 miles west of Gisburn.
It was originally in West Yorkshire but is now in Lancashire, with the border changes.
Hope all this is of some help.
Margaret
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Oh wow! :o You have been busy!
Thank you for all those details.
It's very interesting that he was a widow when he married Ann, makes sense as far as the dates go but still strange as neither wife seems to have had a Thomas in their list of children!
I wonder if there was a third partner in between 1796 when Tabitha died and 1802 when he married Ann.
Also interesting about Holden. I had a look at the site. Quite amazing that it changed counties as late as 1974. I know that there are loads of Wilcocks entries for Gisburn which is quite nearby.
You're so right, it is confusing!
Jenny
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It might be a lot of info but it doesn't clear things up for you ;D
sorry :'(
Margaret
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Don't apologise! :)
Every bit of info helps to narrow it down, doesn't it. At least now I know that Thomas (1799) probably wasn't Ann Dinsdale's son or Tabitha Mason's!
And I've still got his father to have a try for!
Thanks
Jenny
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I wonder if it is possible to try and find Thomas Wilcock and Ann Dinsdale, with the 3 children (Mary, Hannah and Elizabeth) listed in 1841 and 1851 census.
Might be worth putting up a separate query for them.
Just to follow them through and see what happens.
Even though you do not have a birthdate for the couple, someone might be able to find something through the children.
Unfortunately I do not have access to the census.
I did have a thought :o :o, that perhaps, Thomas (1799) was illegitimate and they baptised him in a different church so that none of the 'locals' new.
Not sure if they could get away with that and it would be hard to prove anyway.
One of my wayward thinking ideas ::)
What are the names of your Thomas' children?
Margaret
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Jenny,
I am going to annoy you yet again ;D
Firstly, what docs do you have that tells you that Thomas' father was also a Thomas.
Do you have the parish details for his marriage to Zilah at Bingley in 1832.?
As far as I can tell this would be the only thing that can offer you that info.
Also with all the census you have on him, does his age vary at all, and does his place of birth vary at all?
Please. ;)
Margaret
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That's what made me think that he wasn't their son as all the other children were baptised at Kildwick after the marriage in 1802 and have full dates and surnames of mother on the IGI whereas he looked a bit out on a limb. Didn't quite fit. (PS. I also have a Joseph b. 1808 son of Thomas and Ann Dinsdale)
Good idea about the children, they could be living with one of them later on.
Thomas and Zillah's children are Alice 1832, John 1835 (my ggg grandfather), Ann 1837, and Joseph 1838.
I only know that Thomas' father was a Thomas from the IGI stating that his parents are Thomas and Ann.
Thomas & Zillah married on 13.02.1832.
Then later on I have the 1841 census record for Morton (right area) for Thomas, Zillah, Alice, John and Ann (wonder what happened to Joseph, will have to have a look at that!).
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Oh, and their marriage was in Bingley which is good as Zillah was born in Bingley.
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I also have Thomas & Zillah in the 1861 census (with grandaughter Elizabeth visiting) and it says Thomas was born in Silsden so I know I have the right Thomas from that (there was another Thomas you see, that gave me some confusion, born around the same year but he was born in Kildwick).
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Hmmm, I think I would go back to square one, and ask if anyone has the parish registers for Bingley and look at his marriage to verify Thomas' fathers name.
This really needs to be made sure of before jumping to the next step.
Party pooper aren't I ;D ;D
Margaret
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No, your right, There's no point guessing!
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Atta girl!!! ;D
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Thanks very much for taking the time to have a look.
Hopefully I'll be getting a census subscription of some sort at Christmas (not sure of the best one yet) so I might be able to repay the favour if you need any look ups doing!
Jenny
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Jenny,
just looked at your other posting looking for Joseph in 1841 and had a brain wave :o
found this strong possible, seeing as one of the neighbours was a John and Ann Wildcock, aged 60, living at Bingley in 1841.
My guess, and only a guess at this point, is that they are Thomas (1799) parents:
Kildwick parish registers.
Thomas Wilcock, b. 13th October 1899, bp. 10th November 1899, 1st son of John, a weaver of Silsden and Ann Booth.
I will do some more follow ups on this later but out today and must go get ready.
looking very good in my opinion ;D
Margaret
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OK, lets start from the beginning.
You have a Thomas Wilcock, b.c. 1799, Silsden
he married a Zilah Shackleton in Bingley in 1832.
He was living at Morton Banks for a period of time.
Nearby at Morton Banks is another family.
That being a John and Ann Wilcock. John was born circa 1779, Kildwick (or Silsden?) Ann, his wife, was born in 1779 at Keighley.
They could be John Wilcock and Ann Booth, who married at Kildwick church in
1798. John Wilcock, a bachelor of Silsden, weaver, to Ann Booth, a minor on the 26th Nov 1798.
Now lets just follow their family for a bit . . .
Children - baptised at Kildwick church.
1. Thomas, first son of John, a weaver of Silsden and Ann Booth, b. 1899
2. Jane, 1st dau of John , weaver of Silsden and Ann Booth, b. 26th April 1802, and bp. 1st June 1802.
3. William, son of John and Anne of Morton Banks, a weaver, no birth, baptised on the 22/8/1813.
Now this Thomas fits in nicely to the family group and we see that this family moved from Silsden to Morton Banks some time between 1802 and 1813.
We know that your Thomas also moved from Silsden and was in Mortan Banks based on the census and that he married in Bingley in 1832.
I haven't had any luck finding info on the other family members who are with the John and Ann in the 1841 census ie Christiana.
Did find an interesting burial at Kildwick church, but not sure where he fits in just yet.
Burial of John Wilcock, of 4 Barley Cote, Morton Banks on the 19/12/1931, age 86 years. This gives this Johns birthdate approx. 1845.
Anyway, until something else turns up I am not sure what else I can give you.
The marriage of Thomas to Zilah and Bingley is the best option but fathers name isn't always given in parish registes. :-\
Hope this helps and if you have another query please just ask. It is all at my finger tips. ;)
Margaret
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Possible marriage for the Christiana Wilcock. b.c. 1821.
Freebdm.
March qtr 1843, Keighley/ vol 23/ page 204
Lots of choices for her spouse though:
James Bateson
Thomas Bottomley
George Maud
Jacob Smith.
Take your pick ;D ;D
Margaret
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Hi Margaret
Thank you for all that!
It does fit perfectly with Thomas b.1799. I'm wondering about the names though, the IGI has his parents listed as Thomas Wilcock and Ann.
I've not been doing this long enough to know if there are many mistakes on there! Are mistakes common?
Anyway, I'm going to put up a look up request for the marriage of Thomas and Zillah and see if anyone can see the parents names on that record.
Fingers crossed!
Jenny
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Jenny,
if you looked at the IGI via Familysearch and typed in Thomas Wilcock and his date of birth you will have been given a number of choices.
You have presumed that the one that has him in Silsden is yours, but I have shown that the other choice is also worthy because even though he was baptised at Kildwick it stated his father was from Silsden.
Can you see how easy it is to go off in the wrong direction :-*
Hence the need to hopefully find his marriage and hopefully his fathers name.
I have the same problem with one of my lines, we have a likely candidate and the only possible choice but unfortunatley nothing to prove.
good luck and I will keep an eye out for any new revelations ;D
margaret
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Oh, I see what you mean. :-[
So even though we know my Thomas was b.1799 I may be barking up the wrong Thomas b.1799 tree if the other entry was never entered on the IGI?
Or because it says Kildwick even though they're from Silsden because that's the church he was baptised in.
I get it now (it takes me a while!) ;D
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Thats ok Jenny ;), but the other entry for Thomas, parents: John and Ann at Kildwick is shown on IGI too, even though the IGI does not mention he is from Silsden, naturally as it is an index only.
good luck!!
I will keep my eye out for your queries.
Margaret
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Hi At Silsden there is --Rough Holden + Holden Gate + Holden Bridge (swing) + Holden Bridge + Low Holden Farm + Holden Lane + Holden Park + Holden Beck.
That should keep you going for a while
Les
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HI y'all, I'm new to all this but for info of Jenny searching for the area of Holden-silsden area...there is a howden road out of silsden towards keighley, which eventually leads to holden swing bridge,, on the moor atop of here is an area called rough holden and rough holden farm, holden gate, before it becomes silsden road, hope this helps. sorry if not.
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Hi .... welcome to RootsChat ! :) :)
If you click on the link below, is this the person called Jenny you were referring to ?
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,326724.0.html
Kind regards,
Pels.
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hi again, yes..jenny72
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I'm not sure whether her email notifications are switched on - she had a reply on that thread from someone else, but as yet hasn't responded by logging on to RootsChat. I'll post a link to this thread for you and fingers crossed Jenny sees it ! :)
Pels.
Topics merged to avoid confusion