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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: Jeanette on Thursday 11 August 11 03:42 BST (UK)
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MARGARET STEWART MCALPINE b 1857 SCOTLAND, had 3 children with CHRISTOPHER JOHNSTON/E. They lived in Auckland NZ. She had been married to JOHN VEITCH and later 1917 Married to OTTO FREDRICK OLSEN.
Children from the JOHNSTON/E family were CHRISTOHER JOHNSTON/E b 1885. MARGARET JOHNSTON/E b 1888. WILLIAM JOHNSTON/E b 1891.
Does anyone know of this family? especially Christoher Johnston/e snr.
Jeanette
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Hi
... and welcome. :)
I see the children's births are registered as "JOHNSTONE" (1886 / 1889 and 1891).
Christopher JOHNSTONE (Snr) is still in Auckland in 1902
where a case of assault is brought against him by Margaret VEITCH. [His surmame in the article is given as "Johnston".]
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz
"Auckland Star" - 13 June 1902 - Assault Case - page 8
~ Lu
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Margaret's probate in Auckland office? http://www.rootschat.com/links/0ela/
Possibly this death on BDMHR (as there are no Margaret Stewart Olsen's listed) 1919/5219 Olsen Margaret 63Y
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Hi Jeanette,
Margaret and Otto are buried in Waikaraka cemetery in Auckland
Name OLSEN, MARGARET STEWART MCALPINE
Details F: died 13-07-1919: aged 63
Place Waikaraka
Location Area 2 Block S Lot No 75A
Name OLSEN, OTTO FREDERICK
Details M: died 08-02-1923: aged 78
Place Waikaraka
Location Area 2 Block S Lot No 75B
Cheers Janette
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This may be the death of Christopher junior
1962/33359 Johnston Christopher 77Y
Cheers Janette
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[Possibly the children are named in Margaret OLSEN's will ?]
Maybe, in view of the "troubles" between Margaret (VEITCH) and Christopher JOHNSTON(E), this man might have departed New Zealand ?
* Do you have any idea of the year of birth of Christopher JOHNSTONE (or his birthplace) ?
Just not seeing on the NZ Death index, a death for "Christopher JOHNSTONE / JOHNSTON" who would have been of a similar age to Margaret. ???
~ Lu
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Hi
I'm guessing you may already have the other children of Margaret VEITCH ? [Will add them here though, it can sometimes help with furthering a search. ] ;)
VEITCH
1876 - Margaret Stewart Farquharson VEITCH
Parents: Margaret Stuart ? & John
1877 - Thomas McAlpin ? VEITCH
1879 - Christina Johnston VEITCH
1881 - Andrew Johnston VEITCH
Mother : Margaret Stewart - father's name not recorded
1882 - Annie Johnston VEITCH
Mother: Margaret Stewart - father not recorded
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... oops ... children Thomas and Christina VEITCH
Parents shown as : Margaret Stewart and John
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So am I correct in that the same Margaret who took an assault case against Christopher then later married him?
And that the later three Veitch children were possibly Johnston's anyway judging by the middle names?
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Hi TT
There doesn't appear to be a marriage for Margaret to Christopher JOHNSTONE (JOHNSTON).
She marries in 1917 as > Margaret Stewart VEITCH < to Otto Fredrick (Frederick) OLSEN.
Three of the children have a christian name "Johnston"
... 1879 - Christina Johnston VEITCH has a father named as "John". [For Andrew (1881) and Annie (1882) the father's name is not recorded.]
The later (3) children (with father named as "Christopher") are registered as surname, "JOHNSTONE".
There may of course be another explanation for "Johnston" used as a christian name. ;)
~ Lu
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NZ Death
1877 - VEITCH - Margaret Stewart Farquharson - aged 1 year
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Here in mention of a Christopher Johnston failing to pay maintenence on 2 illegitimate children,also an Andrew Johnston ordered to pay support for his mother,could this be Andrew Johnston Veitch ?
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0elc/
Cheers Janette
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http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz
"Observer" (Auckland) - 18 April 1903 - Deserting Fathers - p.2
A "Christopher JOHNSTON" mentioned in above article also ? :-\
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Many thanks for all your replies and info.
Christopher snr was born in Hobart Tasmania c 1854 [ Margaret was the informant on the birth certificates]. She also stated they were married in Dunedin 1877, no certificate. So unable to varify where Christopher was born or who parents were. Have checked through some records in Tasmania but unable to connect him.
Yes the death for Christopher in 1962 is the son. Have been unable to trace either William or Margaret because of common name and no second name.
Do you know when John Veitch and Margaret were divorced.
Jeanette
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Hi Jeanette,
You don't need to start a new thread,you could post on your other thread,that way all the info is kept all in the one place,go to the last post on your other thread and click reply,you can then put your additional info there
Cheers Janette
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Hi
Mmm .... so Christopher was the man in the newspaper article "Observer" - 18 April 1903 - page 2 -- who absconded to Tasmania ? ;)
I don't see a divorce listing for John and Margaret VEITCH.
I think that John VEITCH is very possibly the man who died back in 1894 ?
1894 - VEITCH - John - 35 years (born abt. 1859) ???
Can you confirm that Margaret VEITCH is the same person who lived in the South Island ? (Dunedin / Southland) ?
When I was searching earlier I came across a number of newspapers articles re: a Margaret VEITCH.
~ Lu
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Maybe the moderator could merge these threads ?
:)
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Hi Lu,
I will PM the mod for Jeanette
Cheers Janette
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Ah ... I see the child who died aged 1 year - Margaret Stewart VEITCH - is buried at the Northern Cemetery in Dunedin.
In the same plot is a "John Watson VEITCH" - born about 1840 ? I'm not sure though that this is her father ?
[Seem to recall seeing this "John Watson" elsewhere in records ?]
~ Lu
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NZ Marriage
John Watson VEITCH - Mary WILSON -- 1885 ???
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Margaret Stuart [sic] VEITCH - d. 1877 - aged 1
Same plot ...
John Watson VEITCH - 48 years (bc 1840)
Died: 24 December 1888
Native of : Linlithgow, Scotland
Years in NZ: 26 (arrived about 1862) ???
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For some reason I had thought that the VEITCHs - John and Margaret - had arrived from Scotland as a married couple (bah ... silly me ...) . I see now that they married in NZ in 1872.
John VEITCH - Margaret S. McALPIN -- 1872
I note there is a birth (without parents names)
1874 - VEITCH - Elizabeth Watson
is she also a daughter of this couple ?
Question: Is the John VEITCH who married in 1872 the same person as John Watson VEITCH who married in 1885 ?
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Presbyterian Marriages - Otago
McALPINE - Margaret Stewart ... full age
VEITCH - John ... full age
Knox Church, Dunedin - 16 April 1872
Drat .... that doesn't help with knowing when John VEITCH was born. :D
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Birth notices from "Otago Daily Times"
- 27 October 1874 - p. 2
... on 19 October 1874 at Stafford Street, the w/o John VEITCH, a daughter.
[This is probably "Elizabth Watson VEITCH ? ]
- 22 April 1876 - p.2
... on 20 April 1876 at Hope Street, Mrs John VEITCH, a daughter
[Likely to be Margaret Stewart F. VEITCH ? ]
[Still not seeing any sign of a divorce. Strange. ???
]
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[ Margaret was the informant on the birth certificates]. She also stated they were married in Dunedin 1877, no certificate.
Hi again
Can you tell us please, where these children were born (and address, if possible) ?
Cheers
~ Lu
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Hi again, info is fascinating. Have sent for the marriage cert for John Veitch and Margaret Stewart Mcalpine.
Children of the Johnston union were Christopher Johnston b 31 Dec 1885.
He went to Kings College in Auck as a day boy, sent for records.
Margaret Johnston b 30 Dec 1888.
William Johnston b 5 March 1891. Panmure given as birth place.
Richmond Auckland given for Christophers birth. He married Millicent Adelaide Hutton in Waihi in 1906.
Jeanette
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Hi Jeanette
The VEITCH / McALPIN(E) marriage record, although it won't offer a great deal of information, will at least indicate if a divorce has taken place. :) A stamp bearing the date of decree absolute will have been placed on the registry copy of the marriage entry.
[Unfortunately NZ marriage records before (4th quarter) 1881, don't have a great deal of info. Names of parents, places of birth of bride/groom, are not given. Ages also not always shown - may just state "full age" - i.e. over 21 years of age. On the positive side though, names of marriage witnesses can sometimes prove helpful.]
~ Lu
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Just found the death / funeral notices for John Watson VEITCH.
"Otago Daily Times" - 28 December 1888 - p. 22 / col. 5
VEITCH - on 24th December at Dunedin, John Watson VEITCH, late of Maheno, aged 48.
[No wife mentioned ??? ]
... same newspaper ...
27 December 1888 - page 2 / column 2
Funeral Notice (at bottom of page)
The friends of the late John Watson VEITCH are invited to attend his funeral ... to leave the residence of his stepson, Alfred WILSON, Glen Road (above Bridgman's Tannery), this Day (27 inst.) ... for interment in Northern Cemetery.
-- Cole and Springer -- Undertakers, 152 George Street --
Interestng. ;)
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Hi
Why I asked about the birthplaces of the JOHNSTONE (JOHNSTON) children was, because I'd found a Christopher JOHNSTON on electoral rolls in Otago (Dunedin), from around 1884 thru to 1890. ;)
* Do you happen to know what the occupation of Christopher (Snr) was ?
~ Lu
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Topics merged.
Spades
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Topics merged.
Spades
Thanks Spades
Cheers Janette
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Christopher Johnston occupation was a Tanner, this was given as his occupation in the electorial rolls for years 1893, 1897, 1899 etc.
Have found a family who arrived in Hobart 1854 from Southhampton on the ship Mooltan. They had a child with them under a year old whose name was Christopher. Parents names were Christopher [of course] aged 45 and his wife Ann aged 38. There were 3 other children.
I guess I cant prove it is the family until I find the death cert ????
Thanks Jeanette
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Hi Jeanette
From the Otago Nominal Roll :
JOHNSTON - Christopher
1884 to 1890 (at same address)
Residential: Cumberland Street, Dunedin
Occupation: Beamsman*
[Beamsman = Tanner's Beamsman : Duties of : ... after skins had been soaked, they were laid over a beam to have flesh and fat removed by scraping. ]
The Hobart find sounds promising. :)
~ Lu
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Link to Otago Nominal Index >>
http://marvin.otago.ac.nz/oni/basic.php
(Use "Advanced Search" option )
A "John VEITCH" is also listed -- last at Stafford Street, 1878-79.
As well as electoral listings, you'll see a "Criminal Offenders Record" for a Christopher JOHNSTON ???
[The event, (offending), occurred before 31 August 1873 - but could be same Christopher ? ]
~ Lu
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Hi Lu, there is something not adding up here, given the 3 Johnston children were all registered as having been born in Auckland. [Did Margaret use poetic talents and stretch the truth as she did with the non exsistent marriage cert]
What of the electoral roll in Auck with Christopher and Margaret on it for the same yrs as the Dunedin roll???
I have found in the Otago times dated 14 April 1891 Margaret Veitch was in court for Drunkenness. Their youngest son William was b 5 March 1891 in Parnell????
The plot thickens!
Cheers jeanette
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Hi Jeanette
Electoral roll information should always be treated with a degree of caution. ;)
It's not unusual to find people with listings at two different addresses, often many miles apart ... or even to find them still on rolls, years after they've moved to another locality.
But if you have confirmation that the births were registered in Auckland, then that's the information you should trust as being correct.
~ Lu
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Hi again
The "Margaret VEITCH" appearing in the Dunedin newspapers (court appearances for drunkeness, etc.) is obviously not your Margaret. ;) That woman had a regular pattern of behaviour and was still appearing before the Magistrate as late as 1892. Phew !
But see next >>
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I hadn't previously read through the "other hits" for "Margaret Veitch" at PapersPast because they were amongst very long articles which took a while to download. When I did though, it was worth it. ;)
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz
"Otago Daily Times" - 3 April 1878 - "Otago D ... T ... (main page)
[Extract]
(Dunedin) Police Court, yesterday. Margaret VEITCH asking that her husband John VEITCH might be bound over to keep the peace .... husband bound over for three months.
see next >>
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... and ...
"Otago Daily Times" - 8 February 1882 - The Otago D.. T.. (page 2)
(Excerpt]
(Dunedin) Mr E M Carew RM, sat at the R M Court yesterday to hear an application by John VEITCH for a variation in a separation order made in April 1878, by Mr Watt.
Mr Macdonald appeared for the applicant and Mr Bathgate resisted on behalf of the wife, Margaret VEITCH.
After argument on both sides, the order was varied, the maintenance being struck out and custody of the children given to the husband.
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Hi Lu very interesting reading in Papers Past, thanks.
The marriage certificate was as you said of very little interest, only learnt John Veitch was a butcher and they married in Mornington. No ages, parents etc.
Where to from here do you think I should search, its Christopher Im really interested in.
Cheers Jeanette
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Hi Jeanette
As previously mentioned, can't see any evidence that Christopher JOHNSTON (Johnstone / Johnson) has died in New Zealand.
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz
"Observer" (Auckland) - 18 April 1903 - Deserting Fathers - p.2
A "Christopher JOHNSTON" mentioned in above article also ? :-\
He does, in my view, appear to be the man mentioned in the above article .... dodging maintenance payments by absconding to Tasmania -- brought back to NZ where he was gaoled for three months. It's a fair bet I think that once he'd done his stint, he again headed back to Australia.
Try placing a request for help in locating his death, on the Australian board. [Click on the "Research in Other Countries" - top left of this page - select Australia.]
Good luck. :)
~ Lu
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many thanks for Lu for all your time and help
Best wishes Jeanette
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Hi Jeanette
Did you ever find Christopher snr?
Is this Junior that died 1929
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=AS19290709.2.33&srpos=770&e=-----1945--50-AS-751-byDA-on--0obituary+thames--
Just was hunting for Thames obits and found the son..so wondered how you were getting on
Bye
Althea
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Hi Althea,
Christopher, jnr died in 1962 in Hamilton. Christopher snr went to Tasmania after the split with his partner and numerous court cases. I believed he died there at the age of 91 although will never be able to be sure as there is no marriage therefore dont have proof of who his parents were.
What a fascinating family and interesting search over many years.
Still unable to find any history of Christopher Jnr brother and sister.
Many thanks Jeanette
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Hi Jeanette
So is this Christopher that died 1929 unrelated? a red herring?
Bye
Althea
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I think a red herring Althea, there seemed to be numerous Christopher Johnstons around NZ in those earlier years but couldnt find any relationship.
Many thanks Jeanette