RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: GLC on Wednesday 10 August 11 15:30 BST (UK)
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I am researching the PAYNE family and welcome any help or contacts to share data with.
Cheers, Glen
My Great Great Grandfather & Grandmother
Stephen PAYNE b. c1810 KEN, ENG; d. 1853 nr Pahran, Melbourne, VIC, AUS
m. 1840 Melbourne, VIC, AUS to
Alicia Elizabeth aka Alice, Hannah, Letitia RYAN b. 1819 Cashel, TIP, IRE; d. VIC, AUS
Alice remarried c1857 to a COCKERAINE
*****
My Great Grandfather & Grandmother
John Frederick PAYNE b. 1844 Hamilton, Portland Bay, VIC, AUS; d. 1907 Dandenong, VIC, AUS
m. 1866 Brighton, VIC, AUS to
Annie Maria aka Alice CAHILL (d/o Patrick CAHILL & Mary CARROLE) b. 1844 Tipperary, TIP, IRE; d. 1910 Dandenong, VIC, AUS
*****
My Grandfather & Grandmother
William PAYNE b. 1881 Bass, VIC, AUS; d. 1968 Wanganui, NZL
m. 1918 Wanganui, NZL to
Olive May WILLIAMS (d/o William Smith WILLIAMS & Elizabeth Ann THOMAS) b. 1888 Ashurst, NZL; d. 1955 Wanganui, NZL
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GLC
There may well be some who will see your information and make contact.
In the meantime, are there any particular gaps (etc) in your searches that the R'chat team could help with?
Or, are you just wanting contact with others of your family line?
Sue
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GLC
There may well be some who will see your information and make contact.
In the meantime, are there any particular gaps (etc) in your searches that the R'chat team could help with?
Or, are you just wanting contact with others of your family line?
Sue
Thanks for the reply and offer Sue.
Stephen bn c1810 (as per death cert) is my real sticking point. Information and solid data seems as scarce as "Hen's Teeth" :'(
All I have is the following and really I don't see a way of getting further. Fresh eyes may see a way though, so here goes.....
Neil GUNSON in his book "The Good Country Cranbourne Shire" states that Stephen & Hannah were in the services of the Wedge Bros. about 1837 & were employed at the Banyan run as stockman & housekeeper.
(I have googled W. Bros with mixed results)
They were in definitely in Australia before 1840 as first known child bn then, but have not found a ship or passage for them. May be the Wedge Bros had their own ship?
Stephen, his horse & dog were killed during a lightning strike leaving his wife with six young children
I am still trying for her death, or possible remarriage.
Any advice or info would be gratefully received Sue.
Cheers, Glen
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You have probably seen the newspaper accounts (on TROVE) of the inquest which give details of Stephen's death.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/60146216
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/4799137
There are others also.
Judith
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Hello Glen,
I take it you have all the children's names ?
Father's name is Stephen PAYNE on all certificates , except on John's b 1845 it is PAINE.
John b 1840 Melbourne - Letitia RYAN # 35955
Margaret b 1842 Melbourne - Elizabeth RYAN # 174 & # 36367
Stephen b 1842 Melbourne - Elizabeth RYAN # 175 & # 36368
William b 1843 Heidelberg- Alice RYAN # 37035 died 1865 aged 22 Heidelberg -Alice RYNE # 1791
John b 1845 Melbourne-Ally RYAN # 38663 & 811
Stephen b 1849 Westernpoint- Eliza RYAN # 42836
George d 1878 aged 27 Lyndhurst- Alice RYAN # 4807
I can't see the marriage to COCKERAINE in fact that name is not on the Index between 1836 and 1888 ?
Regards
Alison
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You have probably seen the newspaper accounts (on TROVE) of the inquest which give details of Stephen's death.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/60146216
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/4799137
There are others also.
Judith
I do have copies of the newspaper accounts, but thank you for posting Judith.
Cheers, Glen
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Hello Glen,
I take it you have all the children's names ?
Father's name is Stephen PAYNE on all certificates , except on John's b 1845 it is PAINE.
John b 1840 Melbourne - Letitia RYAN # 35955
Margaret b 1842 Melbourne - Elizabeth RYAN # 174 & # 36367
Stephen b 1842 Melbourne - Elizabeth RYAN # 175 & # 36368
William b 1843 Heidelberg- Alice RYAN # 37035 died 1865 aged 22 Heidelberg -Alice RYNE # 1791
John b 1845 Melbourne-Ally RYAN # 38663 & 811
Stephen b 1849 Westernpoint- Eliza RYAN # 42836
George d 1878 aged 27 Lyndhurst- Alice RYAN # 4807
I can't see the marriage to COCKERAINE in fact that name is not on the Index between 1836 and 1888 ?
Regards
Alison
Oh no another John...... ::)
Rather than re-posting info already here, I will send you a PM with the revised family and you could maybe tell me what you think.
Cheers, Glen
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Hi
Alison may not be online at the moment to respond.
If the information is not of a confidential nature, it would be best to keep the chat on the open board so all may take an interest and assist ;D
Sue
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Hi
Alison may not be online at the moment to respond.
If the information is not of a confidential nature, it would be best to keep the chat on the open board so all may take an interest and assist ;D
Sue
I didn't want to clog up the boards with a lot of the same info Sue.
However, will post the revised info. G
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What do you think re the 2 Johns? I would appreciate your opinion, I think I am too close and muddle-headed to see a reason.... ::)
Stephen PAYNE (b.c1810 as per death record-KEN,ENG;d.Bef 7 Nov 1853 -NP, M, VIC, AUS (ref:1152))
sp: Alicia Elizabeth (PAYNE,COCKERAINE?) RYAN (b.15 Jul 1819 -Cashel, TIP, IRE; m.1840 AUS (ref:35180);d.Deceased-)
Issue:
1. Stephen PAYNE (c.8 Nov 1840- St Francis, RC, Melbourne, VIC, AUS (ref:35955);d.prob Jan 1841-Melbourne, V, AUS (ref:38287))
2. John PAYNE (b.1840 (V)- Melbourne, VIC, AUS (ref:35955);d.Bef 1844?-VIC, AUS)
3. Margaret Elizabeth (Twin) PAYNE (b.12 Apr 1842 -Melbourne,V IC, AUS (ref:175;36367);d.Deceased- VIC, US)
sp: William (Albert Brailsford?) GREAVES (b.c1845-Staffordshire? ENG; m.1865;d.Deceased-AUS)
4. Stephen (Twin) PAYNE (b.12 Apr 1842- Melbourne, VIC, AUS (ref:175;36368); d.19 Apr 1842-Melbourne, VIC, AUS (ref:38351))
5. William PAYNE (b.21 Jul 1843-Heidelburg, VIC, AUS (ref:37035);d.5 Jan 1865-Heidelburg, VIC, AUS (ref:1791))
6. John (Frederick) PAYNE (b.1 Mar 1844-Hamilton, Portland Bay, VIC, AUS (ref:5661);d.1 Jul 1907-Dandenong, VIC, AUS)
sp: Annie Maria (Alice?) CAHILL (b.1844- Tipperary, TIP, IRE; m.11 Jun 1866 (ref:2540); d.30 Aug 1910-Dandenong, V, AUS)
7. John PAYNE (b.1845-Melbourne, VIC, AUS (ref:38663;811))
8. Mary Ann PAYNE (b.21 Aug 1847- Heidelberg, Melbourne, VIC, AUS;d.26 Jan 1934-Leongatha, VIC,A US)
sp: John WILSON (b.19 Sep 1847-Adelaide, SA, AUS; m.Bef 1868;d.20 May 1921-AUS?)
9. Stephen PAYNE (b.20 Jul 1849-Western Port, Melbourne, VIC, AUS (ref:42836))
10. George PAYNE (b.21 Aug 1851-Lyndhurst, VIC, AUS; d.8 Jun 1878 -Lyndhurst, VIC,AUS (ref:4807))
11. Alice PAYNE (b.21 Oct 1853- Lyndhurst, VIC, AUS)
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6. John (Frederick) PAYNE (b.1 Mar 1844-Hamilton, Portland Bay, VIC, AUS (ref:5661);d.1 Jul 1907-Dandenong, VIC, AUS) GLEN
I do not see a registration for this birth in Vic which is not surprising as it pre-dates civil reg.
I do see a death for the man
PAYNE Jno
Father Payne Steph
Mother Alice RYAN
Age 63
Place Dnong
Year1907
Reg. 7920
Sue
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6. John (Frederick) PAYNE (b.1 Mar 1844-Hamilton, Portland Bay, VIC, AUS (ref:5661);d.1 Jul 1907-Dandenong, VIC, AUS) GLEN
I do not see a registration for this birth in Vic which is not surprising as it pre-dates civil reg.
I do see a death for the man
PAYNE Jno
Father Payne Steph
Mother Alice RYAN
Age 63
Place Dnong
Year1907
Reg. 7920
Sue
Yes Sue, I agree with that, although according to family lore he was bn in Hamilton, the odd place out.
It still leaves the John bn the year after (1845) to Stephen 'PAINE' & Ally RYAN in Melbourne (ref:38663;811)
Why have two Johns if one is still alive?
I think I will have to step back and re-trace sources etc.
Thanks so much for your added help though.
Cheers, Glen
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Hello, I have been looking for more detail about Stephen Payne for years. Please have a look at
http://www.stclair.id.au/ which gives a bit more of some of the tree for Stephen Payne. There is an e-mail address on the web site that you can use to directly contact me.
thanks
Stephen
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There is an interesting bit of family folklore about four of the sons of John Frederick Payne b.1844 (son of Stephen Payne). The story says that three or four of the boys were doing a fair bit of cattle rustling late 1880's early 1890's east of Melbourne. The boys nearly got caught one night so to avoid possible arrest they decided to split up and leave Victoria. Two brothers went to NSW, one to NZ and one to WA (that's our direct line). I have never been able to verify the story but the story exists within two different parts of the Payne line.
Coincidentially one of the boys, George (the WA one) was a butcher and the person Stephen Payne was with (John Frederick Payne's father) when he was struck by lightening in 1853 was also a butcher. There must be some meat on this story somewhere.
There is also a bushranger about this time called John (?) Payne who was called The Butcher but I have never been able to find any link to our guys.
If nothing else it makes a nice bit of folklore.
Attached is a pic containing John Frederick PAYNE (on right)
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Hello I have been researching my John Payne ( Paine Pain ) who was in Portland Victoria in 1840 at age 19 working for the Henty brothers. He later moved to Newtown Geelong in about 1843 and died there in 1851 where he was buried in the Eastern Cemetery. I cannot find any information on where he came from and have been looking on and off for 30 years ! He had children with Margaret Burns or Bell as she is sometimes known ( birth of first child Martha registed in Portland at St Stephens Church child illigimate father John Paine ) and I can't find her arrival date in Victoria either. My Great Great Grandmother Mary Ann Payne was her second child born at the You Yangs in 1844. She married Frank Hoddinott Coles in Geelong. I was wondering if anyone who is researching John Payne or Paine or Pain in Victoria has come across my John ? Any information would be truly appreciated.
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Hello,
I've only just caught up with the PAYNE family discussion as I'm looking for a PAYNE family member for a friend who is a Payne descendant. William Payne born 1881 - Bass Victoria son of John Frederick Payne and Annie Cahill went to New Zealand. I think he's the one of those mentioned as a cattle rustlers, but does anyone know what happened to him after he went to NZ? I have his marriage there and his death, but nothing about his descendants. Like in Australia, certificates are restricted to the hundred year rule, and as he married in 1918 I can't find his children. Can anyone help please?
Anne
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Have sent you a PM.
Cheerd, G
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HI I believe Stephen and Alicia might be my great great great grandparents
Stephen PAYNE (b.c1810 as per death record-KEN,ENG;d.Bef 7 Nov 1853 -NP, M, VIC, AUS (ref:1152))
sp: Alicia Elizabeth (PAYNE,COCKERAINE?) RYAN (b.15 Jul 1819 -Cashel, TIP, IRE; m.1840 AUS (ref:35180);d.Deceased-)
If im right in my research their daughter Mary anne Payne was my great great grandmother. Im searching for information on the Payne line.
I have information on Mary anne paynes decendents if your interested??
Looking forward to hearing from you.
please email or facebook inbox message
kind regards
Jackie