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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Warwickshire => Topic started by: maggib on Sunday 07 August 11 23:58 BST (UK)
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Hi
I'm visiting Birmingham soon and I don't have much time so I need to locate the most useful place for my family history search.
The Davis/Davies family I'm tracing had a John born in Birmingham 1872 and I know he joined the army in 1890 and I have his records. He says he is C of E religion. He also cites a brother William who libes in Chapel Street, Swan Village, West Bromwich around. 1889/90 So I'm guessing I'll need parish records, electoral/voters lists, maybe schools or orphanages too.
Is there anything else I could usefully look at and could you tell me the best places to go. I tried emailing the archive service but it was returned.
Thanks
Maggib
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Do you know his parents names? Have you checked the 1881 census which is free at
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=census/search_census.asp
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Thanks for replying.
No, I have no idea who his parents were. I'm hoping to discover this.
I have checked the 1881 census because he would be about 9.
I found a John Davies as a nephew living in Cardiganshire.
John and a William living at 52, Duke Street but only a question mark for the town in the Staffordshire census transcript.
One aged 8 at Aston.
Then I went to 1891 on the offchance he may have been at home while waiting to go to the army. I found one aged 19 a grandson from Birmingham living at 14 Stanworth Street and the last one aged8 living at 4 Clifton Terrace but no William. Nothing is easy!
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You would need to know which Parish he was born in,there were a large number by 1890 & Davis/Davies is a very common name.
The Electoral Rolls only list men of a certain class as ordinary men didn't get the vote until 1912.
The Central Library is were all of the records are kept but this is in the process of being moved so the resources are limited at present.
I take it he cites William as his next of kin meaning he's unmarried & parents deceased.
How do you know you have the right person?
jim
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Thanks Jim,
I think it's the right man because my husband had medals from the Boer War and several other wars with his name on the edge. I then went to Kew and retrieved his records from which I have the information as to his brother, date of birth and birth place.
I also decided that his parents must be dead and William, either his eldest sibling, or only sibling.
Can you advise me of what to do next please?
Getting desperate
Maggi
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Did he marry?
What was his Regt?
jim
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Hi Jim,
He was in the Somereset Light Infantry. He joined 9th Feb 1890 at Taunton. He was discharged in 1903.
As for his marriage....wll another can of worms!! I have found a John Davies [with an e] [ born Birmingham ]married to a Margaret with a child called Donald on the 1911 census . He is living in Manchester at Sanitary St. However the ages of both him and his wife are wrong. Now I know that the John Davies, whose death notice I've read and whose grave deed I have, died at Sanitary St. in 1923 aged 51 which fits with his age on the army record but on the census he is 31 [maybe 36 , because there's a crease on the page ] I also know that his 'wife' was called Margaret and she died in 1955 aged 69. AND there's another problem!! He isn't listed on the birth certiicate of Donald who was my husbands father. Do you still want to help??? !
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OK. on the 1911 census it definitely looks like age 36.They only appear to be a couple of years out which is pretty good for the census.
Is Donald listed as Davies on the birth cert & what's his mothers maiden name.?
jim
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Hi
Birmingham Archives are closed Monday and Tuesdays due to forthcoming relocation.
Bo
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On the birth cert. there is a blank for the father's name and the mother is listed as Margaret Davies. There is a blank for her maiden name. On the census she came from Bolton.
Among many possibilities I had thought that maybe this John Davies was a relation, eg. brother but on the microfiche at Central Library Manchester on his death transcript it does say 'widow'.
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Well this sounds like Margaret was a Davies also but John was not the father.If she wasn't you need to find her name in order to look for a marriage.Of course there's every chance they didn't.
I've found around half a dozen John Davies' born c.1872 B'ham including one in an orphanage.I mention this because many of these lads went into the army.I also found one with a brother Willam 3 years younger.
I think there's been some creativity on the 1911 census which wasn't that unusual.Because of the age gap they've massaged their ages to look more respectable & the same with their marriage years.
Were there any more children after Donald?
jim
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Thanks for looking that up.
There were no more children as far as I know. I have found only 1 Margaret Davies born in Bolton - in 1866 and none in 1885. I was told that sometimes if the 'father' was away a fussy registrar would refuse to put the father down. But that doesn't account for why Margaret's maiden name is missing.
Could you please tell me a little more about the John's you found- in case they are differen to the ones I found - so long as it doesn't mean you have to start all over again!
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First of all I've just been along Chapel St. 1891 but no William,so they were probably in lodgings,it may well be William followed John into the Army.
It wasn't a case of a fussy registrar,it was a legal requirement for a father's name to be given if known.In regard to illegitimacy the father had to be present to give his consent for his name to be given to the child.The mother's maiden name was also a requirement for a married woman.
So what the cert. says is that Donald Davies is the illegitimate son of Margaret Davies.
I'll have to go back & find the census for John.
jim
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In 1881 there'a a John H Davies in the Middlemore Home Edgbaston (Industrial school/Reformatory),these children became part of "the lost children" as they were being shipped to Australia by 1891.There's no sign of a William though.He may be the same John H you found in Wales where he has an older cousin William.
RG11/2953/81/44.
The other has a younger brother William but this John seems to appear in 1891 as well.
RG11/2948/34/8.
Without a marriage it's difficult to see how to proceed.At present the likely candidate is John H but there's no proof he's the same John.
jim
Edit:not the same John H as he's still in Wales in 1881.
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OK.I've been following the route of William's parentage who were John Davies b.C.1814 Gwyddelwern Merionethshire.
He married Mary ? & by 1841 had a daughter Margaret listed as 8 months so not married long.There are 2 John's marriages to a Mary in the Corwen Dist. which covered where they lived.
Edit: not this one either as William is still in Wales in 1891 while yours was in Staffs.
jim
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Many thanks for your perseverance. I guess I don't want to accept that Donald was illegitimate ! Apparently from those who remembered her she was a 'lady'. However - it happens!
About Chapel Street - William could have moved between John putting him down as next of kin in 1890, and the 1891 census. I did find a William on Chapel St. in 1901 married to Ada with 3 children.... and I found them in Durham in 1891 and he came from Birmingham. If it is his brother he is 9 years older.
This John Davies, 'husband' of Margaret , has a middle name of Eric at least on his death deeds and in the electoral roll for 1912. However I have searched several times and cannot find such a name nor even John E who would fit any of the criteria. This is why I didn't give you this information before. So you can discount any John's with any other initial.
I'm going to the library tomorrow to find Margaret Davies, born Bolton, on the census of 1891 to see who the possible parents are.
I quite understand if you want to draw a line under this. It is quite complicated and frustrating.
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On the 1891/1901 census William gives his birthplace as W.Brom. Staffs. but it seems a coincidence that someone with the same name should be living in such a small street.
You may have to get his marriage cert. as trying to follow John is a dead end.
jim
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Yes I guess you're right.
Anyway there's not much point in pursuing John if he isn't the father but I 'd still like to know how he became involved.
I'll try the other avenues open to me i.e. William and Margaret . What I really need is one of the 'Who do you think are?' team on my case!!They seem to be able to delve into every hidden document.
Anyway thanks for all your help- it's much appreciated.
Maggib
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Quite often marriages were more for convenience sake.John probably had no immediate family & was living in lodgings,Margaret would have had a harder time with a child & no husband & would have had to rely on family to survive or get married.There was a stigma attached to illegitimacy & being made "respectable" at least in the eyes of others would have been an attractive proposition even if it wasn't legalised.
I'm sure the "who do you think you are " team have had dead - ends as well but we don't see those.
William is your only hope at present.
Let us know how you get on.
jim