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General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: Rishile on Sunday 07 August 11 13:27 BST (UK)
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I've done it again.
We spent the weekend in the area why most of my ancestors lived and decided to have a drive round some of the villages.
For some reason I always expect to see the fields surrounding the villages still being worked by hand (my ancestors!!) and tiny cottages where 10 people lived and small village shops where the owner knows everyone in the village and probably the three villages adjacent. But all I ever seem to find are the fields gone and housing estates in their place, and a huge T**co where the corner shop should be.
And they say this is progress??
Rishile
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And don't forget all the cars which now clog the streets.
I know what you mean though - I hate 'progress' too. :(
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Hi
Whilst I take your point about re-development as I hate over-development, I think we also have to be realistic. Would you really like to live as your ancestors did??
No gas/electricity/running hot water
Outside toilet - or hole in the ground??
10 people sharing 3-4 rooms
I think not!!
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CaroleW - no, of course I like my home comforts but I don't want the people who live in the places where my ancestors lived to have them ;D ;D ;D ;D
For some reason I always feel the same after one of these trips - I should be used to it by now.
Rishile
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I've done it again.
We spent the weekend in the area why most of my ancestors lived and decided to have a drive round some of the villages.
, and a huge T**co where the corner shop should be.
And they say this is progress??
Rishile
I know exactly what you mean
The village I was born and raised in (and 5 generations before me) has recently been swallowed by a supermarket chain - not the "t" one this time)
Demolished to make way for it was a row of shops , the post office (which had been there over 100yrs) alot of shops which made up a corner -to make way for an island!
The iron bridge over the railway which I walked across to school every day-gone
The workshop where my father, grandfather and great grandfather worked -gone
One side of the street where my grandparents and great grandparents live -gone
Ok -so the place was run down - but how covering the area with a supermarket is an improvement I don't know.
It supposedly brings trade to the area_ yes it does but only to the supermarket - there is less trade forthe (only just) surviving high street shops which are left standing -
I know I look at the place through rose tinted spectacles but it really has ruined the place -
sUZ
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Yes, some remaining traces of our ancestors lives would be nice. :-\
Your story sounds very sad Suz ... anything of character destroyed and replaced by a sterile anonymous building is never a good thing in my eyes.
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My grandmother was born under this lot ! :( :'(
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... and great grandparents lived here in 1900 ... its part of a shopping mall now ...
... but as I dont have pictures of where they actually lived, I keep these modern ones instead !
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It is all very sad and makes you wonder about the future.
One of the villages had some very big, very old, run down buildings. There were about 10 of them. They looked like railway buildings or something and probably the industry there would have employed most, if not all, of the men in the nearby villages. There was nothing left except the buildings and it looked like their days were numbered. The land it stands on will be about the right size for a supermarket.
Do you think future geneologists will be thrilled to see the remains of a supermarket and say proudly 'my gtx3 grandmother worked there'.
I think not - but I could be wrong.
Rishile
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Well I'm always thrilled if I find any trace of my ancestors, even if the original building has gone.
As for working in a supermarket - it has to be better than being a labourer in an ironworks or sewing umpteen shirt collars every day for decades for a pittance.
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You need to live in Australia - all buildings over here that are over 100 years old are heritage listed ;D
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Yes, but even some of these are being demolished to make way for characterless new buildings ... >:( :'(
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I feel so sorry for my female ancestry. How many children did they have 10-15 only to lose some. My grandmother ran public houses, Bakery and cooked and delivered dinners for 6d all in one day in Stowmarket Suffolk helped by her eldest child ( my Mum) at a tender age. Had two husbands who drank the profits away. First one my mum's dad fell down the stairs and broke his neck in a blind drunken state, we here? I had a operation for Prostate in 1960 ill for 2 months afterwards, now out next day and laid up for a few days. I have found almost every farm my family worked in Kent mostly built on, except Oast houses refurbished and original cottages GRADED still there at Kitchenham Farm Bodiam still as it was and it seems strange to walk up the farm path by zooming in where my family lived on maps.google.com. Purchased for £2800 by my Great Great Grandfather with future in-laws. Left to my Grandfather who sold it. All buildings, acreage to his brother for £1800. The oast house is refurbished and Zoopla suggest's the Oast house alone is worth £792.000. What about today no work and the senseless loss of live in Afgan and many other places and the troubles, now London??
ivor
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The birthplace of my gtgtgrandmother; http://www.allinlondon.co.uk/directory/1150/24362.php
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Not always bad news though. I went in search of the church where my earliest (so far) ancestor was baptised in 1541 and found this, and a delightful village to go with it.
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Lived in RAF Stations since born RAF upper Heyford until Bombed out in Portsmouth and went to live in Ipswich. RAF national service. Family came from Stowmarket. Never heard of RAF Rattlesden let alone the Church. I have only gone back to 1805. 16th century is really something.
ivor
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I don't like over development but...
I had a lovely time tracing where the farm where my gg grandmother was born would have been in Axmouth. It's modern houses now but the field boudaries are the same and bits of old stone walls are still in situ - with the aid of a tythe map it was possible to pin the farmyard down exactly. Far more exciting than if it had all still been there :D
Jan ;)
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I have been to quite a few churches where you know your Greats are resting onto find the area cleared to grass and the gravestones around the edge.
Looking at old maps of an area shows you what has happened to our villages and towns.my grandfathers birthplace in Sudbury Suffolk is now a carpark.
Ringrose
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I have only gone back to 1805. 16th century is really something.
ivor
I think I should add here that my uncle did most of the hard work to trace the family back, and this was in the days before the internet made it comparatively easy. Another useful thing was that the family seemed to move between Rattlesden, Hitcham and Brettenham for about 400 years so most of them were relatively easy to trace. A few of the adventurous ones might have got as far as Bury St Edmunds, but generally they seemed quite happy to stay where they were until the mid 20th century when the lure of the bright lights of Ipswich proved too much for them. ;D
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And they say this is progress??
Rishile
Your ancestors had a life expectancy of some 40-50 years. And they worked all hours, hard physical labour. They probably never enjoyed good health and access to competent doctors. Or a decent education. Seldom travelled more that their own two feet could take them, not that they had any more than Bank Holidays (for which they were not paid).
Count your blessings, Rishile. We are a very lucky generation. I doubt - looking at the way things are going - we shall enjoy such comfortable times for several generations.
meles
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Meles - on the contrary - many of my ancestors lived into their 80's and even 90's. They were mostly Ag. Labs or similar and they travelled far more than I would have ever thought. They lived in the fresh air, unhampered by the decision of which new mobile phone to buy or having to spend an hour or more trying to contact one of the utility companies.
Yes, in some ways our lives are easier but we have other pressures they could not possibly imagine.
A case of the grass always being greener perhaps.
Rishile
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I think as a generalisation that if people got over the first 5 years of life when they were suseptible to many childhood diseases we've eradicated - measles, whooping cough, diphtheria, TB, scarlet fever, smallpox etc etc etc they had every chance of reaching their 70s, 80s, or 90s.
In my family research I've found that the more rural and isolated people were, the healthier they appeared to be. Partly fresh air, home-grown food but also because they weren't around other people and their germs! In my lot, marshland Norfolk seems to be the best place to live!
In London both my and ex's families were a lot less healthy. Overcrowding, sharing sanitation with many other families helped disease to spread. It's also striking that many deaths involved respiratory illnesses, including TB, asthma, pneumonia etc, showing how polluted the air was.
As for whether people were better off or not, health is of course one indicator. Our ancestors didn't know about labour-saving devices and were used to making do. They were probably no happier than we were - except that now we have leisure and opportunity to dwell on whether or not we're happy. I doubt if in their busy lives they did much reflection, but probably sank into deep sleep every night from exhaustion!
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I'm sorry to say that I have to disagree with Meles too !
My ancestors were, as are the majority of ours, also ag. lab's ... all that I've found lived long lives ... well into their 70's, 80's and even late 90's !! The only one that didn't was kicked to death by a cart horse at the age of 40.
I think nowadays people eat worse food, and too much of it; drink too much; don't exercise enough; and are grossly over-weight as a consequence. I have to say when I'm doing visiting in the hospital, I'm shocked to see so many very overweight people, especially children, sitting in the waiting rooms ... and the dozens of people standing around outside the hospital smoking as though their lives depended on it.
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Interesting views. Elizabeth Gaskill's novel "North and South" debates the issue from a contemporary point of view - she felt that the lives of the poor both in the country and the towns were pretty awful - both had their good points (country - fresh air; city - some money) but both had bad points (country - unemployment, no money; city - overcrowding, illness) and both had very, very hard work.
As it happens, my ag labs also had quite long lives (those that survived infancy). But the average life expectancy was far shorter than nowadays.
And I still think we are are the lucky generation. Things were tougher in the past and are about to get much, much worse.
meles
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That must be why my son has just borrowed £200 from me ... :-\
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It’s not the length of life that is important but the quality of that life. If you don’t think you will live beyond 40 or 50 but are still going into your 70’s, wouldn’t that be more of a bonus than it would be now when we expect to live into our 80’s?
And once your time is up, whether it’s 40, 80 or 110, there’s nothing you can do about it anyway and that hasn't changed.
Rishile
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Again - look at Gaskill (and other contemporary writers). The quality of life for most in town and country was not good. Meagre and poor diet. Long, long hours at work and very hard work it was too. The quality of life was not good for most people.
As I say, we are a lucky generation.
meles
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I found cottages, graveyards, gravestones etc. of my ancestors when I visited small villages in Norfolk, Suffolk, Lincolnshire, Yorkshire and Cheshire, but the houses where my parents were brought up in North Manchester have long since disappeared and all the neighbourhoods around, to be covered with council houses, that looking at Google are in such a bad state they need pulling down. My gran's house in N.Manchester has gone, (it was the end of a terrace), to make way for some greenery and open space. My aunt's house in the next street is still there and all the houses have been refurbished and look very smart.
As far as I can tell from Google, my g.grandparents tobacconist/confectioners shop on Hessle Road Hull has been demolished along with neighbouring shops and a Wilkinsons store built on the land. I think the rest of their addresses in Hull have long since been demolished - and looking at old photographs I'm not surprised.
The shop where I lived until I was 12 is still standing and still selling the same type of items as when we had it. Most of the remaining shops have changed into restaurants, estate agents, bathroom fitting shops etc. It is a really upmarket Cheshire village now. Sometimes I think I'd like to go back and walk into the shop and ask if I can look around it and the living accommodation ;)
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That's how I feel when I see an old-radio, but it's playing current news and music.
Why isn't it playing the songs my Grandmother sang along to while she danced with Grandfather?
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That's how I feel when I see an old-radio, but it's playing current news and music.
Why isn't it playing the songs my Grandmother sang along to while she danced with Grandfather?
That's strange - I have always thought that ;D ;D ;D
Nobody I have said that to understands me though ::)
Rishile
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A few years ago I made my late husband drive around Anglesey, to find all the villages my ancestors lived in. If you blinked you missed it !!! Hardly any villages to speak of, and in the whole of the island there were 24 parishes.
Lydart. I enjoyed seeing your photo of Southampton airport !! My husband's ancestors are buried underneath Stansted airport.
I was just about to post Bridgewater when you posted your link. I rather like him, as they grow willow around the area.
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My daughter thought that a long time ago the entire world was in black, grey & white, and one day color appeared.
She got that from the fact that all old movies were black & white. New movies are in color,......
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My daughter thought that a long time ago the entire world was in black, grey & white, and one day color appeared.
She got that from the fact that all old movies were black & white. New movies are in color,......
To be fair, I still imagine my ancestors living in a black and white world!
I agree that it is sad that so many places no longer exist but I wouldn't turn the clock back for anything. Where I live, has been built on an old brewery that was surrounded by slum housing. Poverty was everywhere, children were generally mudlarks with no education, women were prostitues or worked every hour possible raising large families and taking in odd jobs. It is now completely redeveloped, apart from a few Georgian buildings. We now have safe streets, good quality housing and a far better quality of life. I'm just glad so many places were photographed before redevelopment so we can enjoy the areas without the reality that came with it.
Kim
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Housing in once low socio-economic areas are now very desirable especially in inner cities. There are ways to make improvements and keep the character of old buildings without razing an area to the ground. Because they were once slums doesn't follow that they have to continue to be so today. Look at what happened in the 60's - all the terraces were torn down, and 'modern' high rise built in their places - in turn these have now been removed. If the original terraces still remained today, they would probably be very sought after.
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to Kim1980,
While I like your term 'mudlarks' for children, why was your first description of 'most' of the women as 'prostitutes'? Do you have any factual evidence? Unless there are prison records to prove they were prostitutes, please let's think of our female ancestors as hardworking women with high moral standards.
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In reply, the housing was awful, I have pictures! As you say, there was some terrible rebuilding in the 60s and 70s, which is now being replaced with much nicer/practical social housing. To be fair, a lot of the original slum housing was demolished during bombing raids in WW2.
On the subject of 'most' of the women being prostitutes', it very well documented after many years of (other people's) research. I don't want to say where it is, as I don't want to give away too much personal info, but this is a large street in Portsmouth, which has had much written about it from a lot of documented evidence (one that I found particularly interesting was a survey, much like the Charles Booth records of East London, done by a local church official). So, whilst I welcome your comments Jenny, I feel I am justified this time ;)
Kim
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I had another experience of 'times changing' this weekend.
There is a new coffee shop opened near us. We decided to visit and were delighted that it is a Victorian style coffee shop with afternoon tea etc. available. Everything was served on a cake stand with china cups and teapots. The owner must have been a butler in a previous life because he was so 'proper' (sorry, can't think of any other word that suits).
I was just imagining that we were all sitting there in our Victorian dresses (the ladies) and starched collars (the men) and considering a walk around the garden when......
somebody's mobile phone rang.
It totally spoilt the effect.
*sighs*
Rishile