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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Macushla on Saturday 06 August 11 15:06 BST (UK)
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Good evening, Rootschatters.
Requesting help please in looking for details about the birth, life and death of Edward CHRISTIE (my great great grandfather).
Colonial Tasmania Family Links shows that he married Mary WEBB in Hobart, Tasmania, 1858. From this record, archives have suggested that his date of birth was around 1837.
I have details of the 8 children they had together.
Edward worked as an overseer or similar at Port Arthur. I have family lore and some backup from newspaper articles that Edward was in Australia as with the 12th Regiment of Foot but I have struggled to find more details about this.
The marriage record of one of his sons (Patrick Joseph in 1898) names Charles Edward CHRISTIE as Patrick’s father, with an occupation of farmer. Just to complicate things, another of Edward's sons was named Charles Edward, but I believe that he died in 1945.
Colonial Tasmania Family Links does have an Edward CHRISTIE dying in Franklin, Tasmania in 1880 but it gives a birth date of 1820 which would seem to be a considerable departure from 1837 as suggested from the marriage record.
Any help appreciated, thank you.
Macushla
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FindMyPast has discharge papers for an Edward Christie of 12th Foot. Born around 1816 in Dunshaughlin, Meath. Discharged in 1858. Intended place of residence: Hobart Town, Tasmania
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Edward CHRISTIE
Mary WEBB
10 Aug 1858
Registered: Hobart, Tasmania
#303
Age at time of marriage was recorded as 21 for both, but sometimes this age is given on records just to state that they were both of full age. You would need to check the original entry.
https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/show#uri=http://hr-search-api:8080/searchapi/search/collection/1770858
Just be aware that the Familylinks database is not always reliable.
Edward CHRISTIE
Died: 30 Aug 1880
Age: 60
Registered: Franklin, Tasmania
#231
Mary CHRISTIE
Died: 1905
Registered: Port Cygnet, Tasmania
#0571
("relict of the late Edward Christie, in her 73rd year")
Debra :)
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Macushla,
Hobart Town Gazette, 1st August, 1861.
Edward Christie of Hobart was issued with a Hawkers Licence No 3246.
Gerry
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ShaunJ, thank you for that information. The discharge record could be the first concrete evidence I get of his service. Might need to join FindMyPast!
Debra, thanks for the information. Seems to be quite a bit of variation on Edward's birthdate so i think you are right about confirming by purchasing the certificate.
Gerry, can you please tell me your search terms, if you found the article using Trove? I have done an advanced search of all Tas papers, without date limits, with search term 'Edward Christie' and I didn't find the one you mentioned. I must be missing something.
Thanks all, very much. I know I have some information about Edward at Port Arthur somewhere but am very frustrated as I can't find it! I'm sure it's around here somewhere .... :-[ :D.
Macushla
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Macushla, I can check the AJCP microfilms for you on Tuesday - it's free at my local FH library, and I'm pretty sure you won't get any more info from the purchased cert ( and I think Tas charges around $30 for this)
those I have looked at for my family state (usually) church/denomination, age, occupation, and witnesses which can be very useful. That of my gg grandmother was the entry before that of her sister-married on the same day in the same church - a great find!
cheers
Lou
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Lou,
Thanks so much for your very kind offer, that would be fantastic if you could do that.
Do you need any further information that I might be able to supply?
You've made my day, Lou, thanks so much.
;D ;D ;D Macushla
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no problem :)
Debra has given the relevant years and numbers for the marriage and death, so it's pretty straightforward from there
let me know if you want me to check anything else, such as the children's birth entries
I can try to take digital photos too (try being the key word there!)
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http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?detail=1&type=P&id=84374
Thanks again, Lou, above is the link that shows Edward's children. If you can find birth records, that would be great but please don't let it be a hassle for you.
I would also like to find Mary Webb's birth if possible, but I am unsure if she was even born in Tasmania.
Lou, anything you find will be fantastic, thank you so much.
PS undesrtand completely about the digital camera thing ...
Cheers and thanks
Macushla
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In 1897 the deceased's birthplace was added to death certificates in Tasmania, so Mary's 1905 cert should provide this information IF it was known by the informant. Even if they just name a country it would be a bonus.
Lou, you should ask your FHS to put a digital microfilm scanner on their wishlist. They only cost a lazy $10,000 - that is a LOT of sausage sizzles if you can't get a grant, but so worth it ;D
Debra :)
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Hi Macushla,
Thias may be off some help though not sure. :-\
http://coad.perso.sfr.fr/names.htm
Scroll down to the surname Christie.
Johngirl
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Great find Johngirl, but of course would need to be confirmed.
Just looking at the shipping list - some amusing comments...
From the Descriptive list of immigrants on the Sir WF Williams 1857
WEBB, Mary, widow, 42, looks more like 62, pale and delicate, dark hair, can read, laundress
WEBB, Mary, 24, rather well looking, black hair, oval face, fair complexion, can read and write, domestic servant
WEBB, William, 20, tall and stout, very plain features, flat nose, remarkable face, neither read nor write, labourer
WEBB, Thomas, 15, tall lad, well looking, brown hair, good expression, neither read nor write, labourer
WEBB, Samuel, 11, not 12 till 12th March 1857, neither read nor write
All Roman Catholics, natives of County Kildare, and brought out by John BRENT (?)
Debra :)
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I was just looking at Mary CHRISTIE'S Will from 1906 and the second page is missing.
To find it you need to go to this Will:
Bolton, Bridget 1906 AD960/1/26 page 383 #6734
...and the remainder of Mary's is at the top of the page.
http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?search=9
Debra :)
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Macushla,
The 1861 Hobart Gazette information came from a a subscription service.
This maybe Mary.
Tasmania PO Directory 1892-93 (Wise)
Christie Mrs. Mary, fruit grower, Lymington
Tasmania PO Directory 1903 (Wise)
Christie Mrs. Mary, fruit grower, Lymington South.
(Lymington is near Sygnet)
Gerry
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Debra mentioned in her post that the Webbs were brought out by a John Brent.
The 1867/68 Tasmanian Directory has a John Brent, maybe it was him.
BARRISTERS, ATTORNEYS, SOLICITORS, AND PROCTORS,
Of THE SUPREME COURT OF TASMANIA AS THEY STAND ON THE ROLL
Brent, John, Roseneath, Glenorchy, May 8, 1849.
The Cyclopedia of Tasmania mentions that a John Brent was a Barrister at Law who came out in 1848 from Wiltshire England, he died in 1870.
Gerry.
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Gerry, Debra and Johngirl, thank you all so much, you have given me some fantastic information which I can't wait to go through properly.
This is just a quick thank you; I will be back tomorrow; must off to bed as there is going to be work done on the train line near to us ... for the next 3 nights from 1am to 7am ... :o
Still, at least if that keeps me awake, I can come back on here ;) but if the 3 year old wakes up we're all in trouble.
Thank you again. Had to laugh when I realised that all of Mary's 8 children are beneficiaries of her will ... except my great-grandad!
Cheers
Macushla
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Marriage
in the manse of St Johns, according to the rites and ceremonies of the Church of Scotland by licence, by Robert McLean
Edward CHRISTIE age 21 rank =constable
Mary WEBB age 21
they both signed their names
witnesses M.E.MCLEAN, J.A. BAIRD
of note
#1 there were 19 marriages performed by this clergyman in 1858; of the 38 people involved, 35 were said to be 21 years of age, 2 under 21, and one 19 - a statistical impossibility I would think!! I would take 21 to mean anything over 21 in this context
#2 the witnesses were also witnesses at 2 other marriages (not together)
death
30 Aug 1880
male aged 60, farmer, cause of death =asthma, informant Eliza WEBB (signed with an X) sister-in-law, Hobart Town
??this could be the Eliza that came with Dora in 1854, from the website mentioned in Johngirl's reply??
off to netball now, but will be back later in wek to library so can check other stuff then
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Asthma ties in with the army record which states that he suffered from chronic rheumatism and dyspnea.
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Johngirl, that Coad site is fantastic, thank you so much. I did the organised thing (rare!) and put it straight on my favourites list. I didn’t see it on the Tas resources board, or did I miss it. The site itself gives a lot of good sources, too.
Debra, are you able to advise where you found the descriptions? I’d like to keep a note of it. Don’t think I would have liked to have been ‘assessed’ by the writer of the descriptions! 42 looks 62? Maybe some things do run in families! The will was a fantastic find, especially page 2. How on earth did you find that?
Had a quick read of the guide to Tasmanian immigration in the archives and I think that John Brent may have been a kind of sponsor vouched for the character of those coming to Australia. Thanks for the extra information, Gerry, I think that makes sense.
Thanks, ShaunJ for the extra information on Edward; in a way it seems amazing that he was sent to Australia at all. I wonder if he had perhaps been pensioned off and then come to Australia as I have just learned there was a scheme that did that; ShaunJ, is there anything in the records that suggests where he was when discharged? I assumed he was already in Australia, but of course I shouldn’t assume. It’s not impossible I guess for him to have been discharged in 1858 and married in the same year even if the discharge did not occur in Tasmania?
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Waiting with anticipation to hear back from Lou.
Meanwhile, a puzzle. I have sent an email to the Hobart Catholic Parish about this but no response as yet. Why would Catholics marry in the Church of Scotland? Had a quick look into the Catholic Church’s history in Tasmania and I’m sure that there was at least one priest in Tasmania in 1858 … could it have been that the priest(s) available simply couldn’t keep up with the demand for their services? I know that some of this couple’s children married in Catholic churches and were buried in Catholic cemeteries or sections, so I am reasonably sure that Edward was also a Catholic and the children were brought up as such. Any suggestions would be welcome.
Thanks again, so much.
Macushla
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I'll be going back on Saturday hopefully (terrible how work interferes with your life!! ;D)
is there something specific you'd like me to look at?
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Thanks again, Lou.
If you have time, I would like to find marriage details for William Christie (b. 1876 Franklin); death details for Patrick Joseph Christie (b. 1869 Tasman); marriage details for Dorothy Christie (b. 1867 Tasman) and Charles Edward Christie (b. 1861 Hobart).
Lastly, any children born in Tasmania to Frederic(k) Christie, b. 1865 Tasman.
All dates and locations are from the Tas Colonial Families database, so may not be quite right.
Thanks, Lou, I really appreciate the help and don't want to impinge on your generosity. The information you and everyone else has given me so far has given me plenty to work on!
Cheers and thanks
Macushla
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Hobart Mercury 29 Sept 1945
Death of Charles Edward Christie...85yrs...late 15 McFarlane St
...brother of Dpra (Mrs J Jones), Elizabeth (Mrs J Duffy), Patrick
....uncle of Frederick Christie.
DORA AGNES CHRISTIE
BDM VICTORIA
Death Dora Agnes Jones 90yrs Richmond 1956/8101
parents Edward Christie Mary Webb
BDM TASMANIA
Dora Agnes Christie M. James Joseph F Jones 30 Mar 1891 22/23yrs HBT #325
children -
Myrtle Marie Louise 3 Mar 1892 HBT #816
Elsie Marie 5 Oct 1893 HBT #1121
Lillian Dora 30 May 1895 HBT #1131
James Fletcher 5 Mar 1897 HBT #1222
Sylvia Maud 9 May 1899 LYELL #1073
also
BDM VICTORIA
children -
Doris Agnes 1905 Melb S
Fran Sydney 1906 Melb S
Charles Edwin 1910 Richmond
BDM VICTORIA
deaths with parents Dora Christie/James Jones
Doris Agnes Vera Miller 78yrs Melb S 1983
Herbert William Arthur Christie 40yrs Prahran 1941
Myrtle Mary Ayton 88yrs Croy 1980
Lillian Dora Fewster 78yrs Glen 1974
BDM VICTORIA
Sylvia Maud Jones m. Allan Seymour Hooker 1922/4543
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Wivenhoe, my head is spinning.
Thank you very much.
Macushla :)
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Hobart Mercury 29 Sept 1945
Death of Charles Edward Christie...85yrs...late 15 McFarlane St
...brother of Dpra (Mrs J Jones), Elizabeth (Mrs J Duffy), Patrick
....uncle of Frederick Christie.
ELIZABETH CHRISTIE
Elizabeth Christie m. Michael John Duffy 30 Nov 1898 HBT #284 26/30yrs
Mary Elizabeth 2 Oct 1889
Charles Michael 4 May 2892
Arthur 26 Mar 1894
Patrick Edward 6 Feb. 1896
Frederick John 15 Jan 1898
John William Gavin 27 Oct 1899 all Hobart
Dorothy Norah 4 Dec 1901 Glenlusk
Michael Edward 26 Jan 1903 Glenlusk
Minnie Marie 2 Jul 1904
Madelina Mary 6 Sep 1905
Josephine Elizabeth 20 Dec 1906
Pauline Lillian 9 Jan 1909
Mona Agnes 5 Nov 1912
Mary Winford 19 Aug 1914 all Berridale
The marriage date is correct. They had five children before they married.
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Wivenhoe, thank you I can't believe all of this. My mother is going to have a hard time understanding how big this family is ...
Macushla
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Hi again
good work wivenhoe :)
my own searching has not been quite so fruitful.....however
marriage
Charles Edward CHRISTIE age 44 miner
Catherine BLAXTON age 37 widow
20 Dec 1894 at St Fursains (not sure of this name) Zeehan, RC Church, by licence, by Bernard Murphy
witnesses Nathaniel CURRIE, Simonina CURRIE
did not see the marriage for Dora as I looked under Dorothy but can look at that next time
William CHRISTIE married Sabrina Annie WICKS 20 Nov 1901 St Mary's Cathedral Hobart
this is from the index, and the microfilms don't go past 1899 unfortunately
Selina CHRISTIE death 1922
Patrick Joseph CHRISTIE
marriage 3 Oct 1898
to Catharine Elizabeth MCKAIL
Lyell #747 (I think that's near Queenstown somewhere)
will check the film next time
Frederick CHRISTIE
daughter Rosanna born 25 April 1893 Hobart (mother of this child Mary Ellen FOX - could not see this marriage though)
hope this is of some use
cheers!
Lou
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Thank you, Lou!
Wondering if the Currie witnesses from Charles's marriage might be Catherine's children from previous marriage? Do you know if Blaxton is likely to be her married name or maiden name? Not sure what the protocol was with that.
Thank you especially for the info on Rosanna; she has been very elusive. Variously listed as Minnie, Mary, Rosanna, Mary Rosana ...
No worries re the Frederick Christie / Mary Fox marriage, thank you; they were married in Victoria. Not sure where Mary Fox was born and not sure why they might have gone from Tas to Vic, back to Tas, and on to WA. Frederick followed his father in becoming a prison warder so perhaps it had something to do with that.
Very much of use, Lou, thanks so much.
Macushla
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I think it would be her married name - and my typo - surname should be BLANTON
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/10249705
there was a land grant to the Curries, in The Mercury Sep 25 1912
and maybe they were married in Palmerston NZ 8 Aug 1878 (Simonina Paterson, minor, to Currie)
sometimes I love go*gle, especially when you have an unusual name ;D
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marriage
March 30 1891 #325
cathedral of St Mary, Hobart; by licence
James Joseph Fletcher JONES 22 confectioner
Dora Agnes CHRISTIE 23 housekeeper
witnesses Patrick J. Christie, Elizabeth Christie
marriage
district of Hobart
Nov 30 1898
St Mary's Catholic Church
John Michael DUFFY
residence: Glenorchy usual residence: Glenorchy
age: 30
occupation: farmer
condition: bachelor
birthplace: Glenorchy
father: Michael DUFFY occ farmer
mother: Mary CARR
Elizabeth CHRISTIE
Lovett; Lovett
26
living with her parents
spinster
Huonville
Edward CHRISTIE farmer
Mary WEBB
witnesses P. DUFFY, Mary E. Duffy
marriage
District of Montague/Lyell
3 Oct 1898 at Queenstown
according to the rites and ceremonies .. Catholic Church
Patrick Joseph CHRISTIE
Queenstown; Queenstown
29
carpenter
bachelor
birthplace Port Arthur
Charles Edward (sic) CHRISTIE farmer
Mary CHRISTIE
Catharine Elizabeth MCKAIL
Queenstown; Holbank
26
farmer's daughter
spinster
Westbury
Michael McKail farmer
Rose McKail
witnesses James Fletcher JONES Queenstown
Dorah (sic) JONES Queenstown
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Thank you very much, Lou.
I have been 'Troving' and it looks like things didn't go too well for Patrick and Catharine. As you noted, he was a carpenter and looks like he did some damage to his hand and tried to get compensation - and lost. Court info suggests he was a widower with five children ... also looks like he was forced to sell his land.
Haven't been able to find a death notice for Catharine or for Patrick. I hope that things turned out for him ... and his children. Amazing how we can get so involved in their stories, isn't it?
Thanks again, Lou.
M.
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Thanks, ShaunJ for the extra information on Edward; in a way it seems amazing that he was sent to Australia at all. I wonder if he had perhaps been pensioned off and then come to Australia as I have just learned there was a scheme that did that; ShaunJ, is there anything in the records that suggests where he was when discharged?
He was discharged in Hobart Town on 28th December 1857.
His reckonable service was 21 years and 14 days. He had served 13 years overseas, including 9 years 11 months in Mauritius and 3 years 1 month in the Australian colonies.
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Hi Macushla
I could not find a death either, but the indexes only go to 1930 for Tas
the little snippets make it interesting - I found one for the sister of my gggrandmother, that said a charge against her "for failing to bandage certain fruit trees" had been withdrawn :-\
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Louisa B ,
they had to bandage their fruit trees because of the Coddling Moth.My husbands G Grandfather also got into trouble for not doing this in his orchard at Bagdad .
I still have no idea how it worked. ;D
Johngirl
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ShaunJ, thanks again so much for that information. Edward is becoming much more of a real person now. I'm hoping you might be able to answer one last question for me if it is in the record; is Edward's religion recorded at all? I'm wondering if he was Catholic and if so, would he have been likely to declare that, or would it have been too divisive an issue at the time, leading him to declare himself Protestant?
Thanks, LouisaB (I have a few deaths to follow up now!) and Johngirl. Think Mary had fruit trees too so she probably neglected to do the same!
With regards and thanks
Macushla
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http://www.sturmsoft.com/Writing/guide_to-gardening/apples_and_pears_in_the_home_orc.htm
Johngirl, found the above link for you ;D (scroll down to coddling moth); now we can all know how to bandage our trees ;D.
M.
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I don't see any mention of his religion in the army papers.
They do however record that he was 5'8" tall, light brown hair, grey eyes, fair complexion
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ShaunJ, thank you so much.
Now I know where the grey eyes come from :).
M.
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Hi Maclushla,
I have undertaken considerable research into the 1st Battalion, 12th Regiment and advise the following:
Private (1079) Edward Christie arrived in Melbourne, Victoria, on ship Empress Eugenie.
The second division of the 1st Battalion, 12th Regiment, consisting of two companies, under Captain Richard Atkinson, embarked at Cork on board the transport ship Empress Eugenie on the 30th July 1854, and disembarked ninety-four days later at Melbourne on the 3rd November 1854 with 10 sergeants, 167 rank and file, families and 34 children. Passengers included Captain Atkinson OIC, Captain Vereker acting Paymaster, Lieutenants J. R. Palmer, M.C. Saunders, W.H. Paul, Ensigns H. L. Williams, C. M. Harward, Assistant Surgeon Rogers, Mrs Vereker and Mrs Palmer.
The Argus reported on the 4th November 1854 -
the troops were very healthy and the vessel [presented] an appearance of cleanliness and order unequalled by any troop ship that has entered Hobson’s Bay and [reflected] the greatest credit on the Commanding Officer and Dr Rogers.
Between April and June 1858 - Private (1079) Edward Christie was discharged from the Battalion in Hobart, Tasmania.
Pls refer to website specialising in the 12th Regiment:
larbalapplication.appspot.com
Regards,
Ken