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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: SDCragg on Saturday 06 August 11 09:56 BST (UK)
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Hi, i am looking for pre 1841 census information... i have John Cragg, Married to Jane Cragg (maiden name unknown) in the census for 1841 and 1851. but cannot find one before this... he was born 1810-1811 in Lincolnshire. the 1841 census page is here: http://search.ancestry.com.au/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=1&new=1&MSAV=0&msT=1&gss=angs-c&gsfn=john&gsln=cragg&msbdy=1810&msrpn__ftp=Lincolnshire%2c+England&msrpn=5273&msrpn_PInfo=7-%7c0%7c0%7c3257%7c3251%7c0%7c0%7c0%7c5273%7c0%7c0%7c&gskw=1841&sbo=1&uidh=a46&mssng0=Jane&pcat=35&h=6570654&recoff=10+11&db=uki1841&indiv=1&ftm=1
Basically i am looking for his father which i believe is R Cragg, but could not be. there is a Richard Cragg that almost fits the bill but i want proof...
Steve
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Hi Steve, there were censuses in the UK before 1841, but they were only 'head counts' which did not record individual information. Your only hope of finding what you require is through church parish records for baptisms, marriages and burials, or maybe local tax records.
You can get some parish records online, and some are on CD - it's best to look for a Family History Society covering Lincolnshire, or you could try The Parish Chest (http://www.parishchest.com/)
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See "Pre-1841 Censuses & Population Listings" by Colin R. Chapman http://www.rootschat.com/links/0eje/ Also http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/census/index.jsp
The 1841 Census is the first one that is of any practical use for family history research.
Stan
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Thanks, i just found that out online :( But how do i find the parish records that were mentioned?
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There are no census returns 1801-1831 for Lincolnshire with all persons named. These are the parishes avaiable in Lincolnshire:
1801; Little Ponton, Whaplode.
1811; Fleet, Waddington, Whoplode, Winteringham (Part)
1821: Barnetby le Wold, Canwick, Fleet, Lincoln St. Martin, Waddington, Walcot by Folkingham
1831; Canwick, Fillingham, Fleet, Gedney Hill, Grantham.
Stan
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Hi Steve, there were censuses in the UK before 1841, but they were only 'head counts' which did not record individual information.
List of names from some censuses BEFORE 1841 were kept and have survived - admittedly in a rare number of cases, but Jeremy Gibson and Mervyn Medlycott say in their booklet "Local Census Listings 1522-1930: Holdings in the British Isles" that over 750 parish listings have been found for the censuses of 1801, 1811, 1821 and 1831.
These are to be found in county record offices and a complete county-by-county source guide is given in the booklet (available via the Federation of Family Histories Publications)
The lists are in the majority confined to heads of households, with numbers of other household members given (sometimes divided by sex and age groups), but in some cases full names of all members of a household are given. These lists were retained by particularly conscientious enumerators after they had sent the statistics to central government, often for use in other situations, i.e. Poor Law administration.
Some of these lists have been published by family history societies. So it is not strictly correct to say that no names are available before 1841.
Stan
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Hi,
Marriage 28.05.1832 St Mary Donington-John Cragg & Jane Hearson, Witnessess Richard Hearson & Samuel Benstead.
1841 census shows a William, John & Jane children. William bap 19.3.1833 Donington, John 15.11.1835. Also a Henry Cragg born to John & Jane baptised 6.7.1834 Sutton St James.
John
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thanks for that! what's my next step in looking up Richard? can we assume he's the father?
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or more importantly, how should i try to get John cragg's father's name? do i need to order his birth certificate? is there an easy way to get his death record?
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Birth certificates do not exist pre-1837 - you need to search parish registers
First stop should be Familysearch, ancestry or freeReg to see if they have transcribed a suitable birth. If there is one which you think might fit, contact the local Record Office to request a copy of the entry - which may have additional info to confirm or refute your thoeries
For his death -- FreeBMD is your first stop, then order a copy of the certificate from GRO or the local Register Office
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i found this at FamilySearch, but how can i prove that it's the right John?
John Cragg
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
birth: 13 May 1810
residence: 1810 —York, England
parents: Richard Cragg, Dorothy
record title: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
name: John Cragg
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 06 Jun 1810
baptism/christening place: SKIPTON,YORK,ENGLAND
birth date: 13 May 1810
father's name: Richard Cragg
mother's name: Dorothy
indexing project (batch) number: P00934-1
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 100098
there's a history of the Hardcastles and Richard Cragg, but i need to make that last step... will the christening record actually help?
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I doubt that is your John Cragg
In your opening post you say he was born in Lincolnshire
That christening record is for Skipton in Yorkshire - too far away to be a good match
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That's all i could see that was John Cragg and close to 1810. is there no way they could have had a big move? When looking up the origin of the Cragg name there's a big lot of info about the York Craggs but no info at all about any from Linolnshire or close by. maybe one of the could have strayed? do you think ordering the record will actually show anything else?
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Yes they "could" have moved
But on the censuses he gives his birthplace as Licolnshire. Does the 1851 census give a more explicit location? I would do more research in Lincolnshire before jumping to conclusions about the family moving such a distance
Personally, I wouldnt waste money on ordering a copy of that birth entry unless you have exhausted all Lincolnshire possiblilities
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SDCRAGG,
Never assume anything. John and Jane appear on the 1881 census ref rg11 3208 17 5, aged 71 & 74 giving birth dates c 1810 and c 18079 recorded on Ancestry as CRUFF. For a period of years at least 10 they were living from 1871-81 in Tynn St Mary. There are then 2 deaths that fit quite nicely between 1881-91. John Dec q 1881 aged 71 Holbeach 7a 226 and Jane Sophia aged 80 Sept q 7a 251.
Also if his father is possibly and I say possibly Robert then there is a marriage 1793 that could be him. Will carry on searching.
John
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sorry should have said both deaths were in Holbeach reg district that covers Tynn St Mary.
John
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If you want confirmation of Jane's maiden name then the birth certificate of son Robert Carr Cragg in 1844 should give this. June q 1844 Holbeach 14 423.
Robert died 1932 and left a will, if you want probate details let me know.
John