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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Glamorganshire Lookup Requests => Glamorganshire => Wales => Glamorganshire Completed Lookups => Topic started by: Brentor boy on Tuesday 02 August 11 19:53 BST (UK)

Title: Where do I go from here?
Post by: Brentor boy on Tuesday 02 August 11 19:53 BST (UK)
An entry in the index of the Probate Calender indicates that Jesse Coomb(e)s of 10 Bodringallt Tce, Ystrad Rhondda died on 11 Feb 1929 at North Rhondda Colliery, Glyncorrwg. According to the Coal Mining History Resource Centre, he only suffered an accident on that date.

The death was registered in Neath, suggesting that it occurred either at the mine or an adjacent hospital. If it had happened at his home I would have expected that it would have been registered in Pontypridd. I have not yet obtained a copy death certificate which, in any case, would only confirm details of his death, not the circumstances surrounding it.

Anthony Pritchard, of Treorchy Library, has searched for reference to the accident/death, or any subsequent inquest, in local newspaper archives, without success. I appreciate that in those times such an event was not so exceptional but surely it must have prompted some official reaction. Can anyone please suggest what I might now do to trace the relevant records?

Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: cardiff on Tuesday 02 August 11 20:16 BST (UK)
Hi
The death certificate would at least give you place of death /hospital or a home and what he died of. He may will have died from the accident.
My great grandfather had an accident in the pit the roof came down on him he was takedn home and later found to have broken his back. Was taken the Cardiff Royal infirmary from Porth in the Rhondda and died in hospital from pnumonia. Although he would not have had pnemonia if he was not bed ridden.
Not sure if this  is of any help
cheers cardiff ???
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: Morganllan on Tuesday 02 August 11 23:24 BST (UK)
Hello  :)

Here is a link relating to Neath Coroner's Records available at West Glamorgan Archive Service in Swansea:
http://www.swansea.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=33275

Modified - just to clarify, Glyncorrwg would come under Neath registration district, and that is where the accident took place.

Kind Regards
Morgan
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: Brentor boy on Wednesday 03 August 11 07:02 BST (UK)
Thanks Cardiff and Morgan.

I know that Jesse received his injuries after coming into contact with the cutter. I suspect that he was then transferred to hospital where he died so, strictly speaking, he did not die at the pit. Wherever he died, it must surely have satisfied the criteria of being a " sudden or unexpected" death, thus necessitating an inquest, unless this does not apply to a death in hospital. It is a sad comment upon the times if the event did not warrant mention in the press.

West Glamorgan Archives must be my next stop.
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: cardiff on Wednesday 03 August 11 15:57 BST (UK)
Hi
Yes I think something would have been in the papers about his death but maybe not the accident it self.
Looking for an obituary may give further info?
having looked at the colliery its  it is in the Afan valley, could he have been taken to Swansea?, Neath  must have had a cottage hospital?
cheers cardiff ???
ps Brief History of this Collery
Glyncorrwg Colliery Glyncorrwg Cymmer (Afan Valley)
Glyncorrwg North an South  pits sunk in 1904 by Glyncorrwg colliery Ltd no.2 Rhondda (north Pit)
1926 colliery was acquired by Glyneath Collieries Ltd in 1927 employing 384 men. By 1928 the pit was taken over again by Amalgamated Anthracite Collieries Ltd.
 the Pit continued to work until its colouser in 1970 ;)
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: halfasheep on Wednesday 03 August 11 21:03 BST (UK)
I live in Cymmer (not the one by Porth), so am literally around the corner from Glyncorrwg. It would have been one hell of a trek back over the mountain to Ystrad in those days.

Maesteg General Hospital would have probably been one of the closest "major" hospitals - it opened in 1912 so would certainly have been open at the time. However, Maesteg fell under Bridgend registration district.

There are no hospitals in the Afan Valley, so I suspect that either your relative was moved to Port Talbot or Neath (both of which I suspect are going to be unlikely in my opinion), it is more likely that he died in the colliery (like many of our relatives on this board no doubt - mine certainly did).

However, I would suggest getting that death certificate as it may note an inquest date on it, which will lead to a newspaper article. I've had some luck like that. I had one relative who was run over by a dram, lost a hand, but died of septaecemia a few days later.
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: cardiff on Wednesday 03 August 11 21:09 BST (UK)
Hi halfaheep
Local knowledge you cannot beat it.
cheers cardiff :D
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: halfasheep on Thursday 04 August 11 06:36 BST (UK)
Thanks Cardiff, not got a lot to offer BUT local knowledge!

Brentor boy, if you see the geography of this area, you'll realise that it's all windy lanes and huge hills and mountains. If the injury was that severe that he died of them, given the depth they worked, it's unlikely that your man was moved that far - not massively familiar with how transport worked back then, but I doubt they would have put him on a coal train (or would they?), and I suspect a car/lorry/ambulance ride would have taken at least an hour to the nearest hospitsl - again this is dependent on whether your relative was in a condition to be moved.

My father still works in a mine in the area, and I know that he has to walk at least an hour underground until he gets to the coal face.

Again, not an expert in mining, but I'm fairly certain that the conditions even in the 1920's were fairly awful in terms of lighting, accesability, etc.

If you get the death certificate, let us know the place of death - if it's in Glyncorrwg (and assuming it's still standing), I'll get a photo for you
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: Brentor boy on Thursday 04 August 11 09:11 BST (UK)
Thanks Cardiff and Halfasheep for your comments and suggestions.

I know from talking with Jesse's nephew, who used to work in the Parc and Dare, that Jesse and his brother had a two hour walk to get to work "over the mountain". I hope to see him again when I next visit Treorchy shortly and will ask him if he can remember anything more, but in the past his recall has been limited.

My attempts to track down any relevant newspaper report have so far been unsuccessful and I have just heard from West Glamorgan Archives that all inquest reports for the period were lost in a flood several years ago so, at the moment, it looks as if the only documentary evidence I can obtain easily is the death certificate which has to be my next step.

Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: cardiff on Thursday 04 August 11 10:07 BST (UK)
Hi
Just out of interest.. Are you saying that the pit entrance was on the Afan valley side ?, but once underground that the mine split into north and south? I can see how the men in the Rhondda walked 2hours to work thats a hell of a mountain to walk over from Treorchy to Cymmer!
Halfasheep hows that valley of yours these days stunning looking from the top looking towards swansea :)
Have not been that way for a while.
cheers cardiff ;)
 Ps
I'm from Cymmer near Porth how funny is that ;D
But left it many moons ago :-\
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: stonechat on Thursday 04 August 11 10:35 BST (UK)
It must be worth doing some searches in the newspapers
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: halfasheep on Thursday 04 August 11 15:31 BST (UK)
Those mine workings travelled miles underground and often criss-crossed above and below other workings. There was a train tunnel under the Bwlch Mountains (I believe), but it's doubtful they could have travelled through that. Two hours to walk seems very conservative to me in all honesty - it's nearly 20 mins to drive to Treorchy  :D

And the valley is still lovely Cardiff. Nice and quiet
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: cardiff on Thursday 04 August 11 15:40 BST (UK)
Hi
Yes there was or still is a tunnel throught the moutain not sure what year it was blocked up. My mother and her parents travelled back to Aberystwyth via that tunnel and on to Swansea. happy days! But thinging about it mum was born 1928 so it had to be after that.
Someone knows when that tunnel was discontunued, Not sure if Mr Beecham had anything to do with it , maybe thats to late 1960's?
 Glad to hear all is well in the Afan Valley
cheers cardiff :)
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: cardiff on Thursday 04 August 11 16:00 BST (UK)
Hi
Bit of info for you just to help with that local knowledge Halfasheep
Rhondda and Swansea Bay Railway
opened  November 1885 Aberraron-Cymmer  July 1890  Rhondda tunnel link to coalfield.
but still don't know when it closed ???
cheers cardiff :)
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: Rena on Thursday 04 August 11 16:07 BST (UK)
I was wondering if the accident could have been recorded in the Compensation book listed on the website below.  If the family made a claim how long would it take to process and record?

<D/D PRO/NCB 5/41> Compensation register for Glyncorrwg Colliery (Glyncorrwg, Afan Valley). 1929-1934
[1 vol.]

http://www.abertawe.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=27494
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: cardiff on Thursday 04 August 11 16:08 BST (UK)
Hi
Well that looks interesting, maybe you have found the info
cheers cardiff :)
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: Rena on Thursday 04 August 11 16:28 BST (UK)
this website seems to be quite comprehensive:-

http://www.cmhrc.co.uk/site/home/index.html

Re mining accident of Jesse (injured), age 32, on 11/02/1929
Seems he suffered an injust to the body when he came into contact with cutter bar.

Modified by Moderator to ensure the post meets copyright requrements  :)
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: cardiff on Thursday 04 August 11 17:48 BST (UK)
Hi
Well there you go he died on the 11th feb 1929 he must have been taken out of the colliery on the Afan valley side, that would be under the Neath district not the Rhondda, maybe the doctor in attendance was also from that valley so it would have been registered on that day ???
cheers cardiff
ps just reread request  he must have died later  that day not in the pit itself , shock maybe? What does it give on hie death certificate ??? sorry this thtread has gone on so long now losing the it!
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: halfasheep on Thursday 04 August 11 18:40 BST (UK)
One of my cousins (many times removed) was caught in a roof-fall in a mine. Died after he reached the surface, although another of mine (who passed on after foolishly taking a ride in a dram that broke free - scenes of Temple Of Doom if it wasn't so tragic) was certified in the mine by a doctor. Suppose it depends how close to the surface they were working - doubt the doctor would travel to the face of the seam
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: Brentor boy on Thursday 04 August 11 19:57 BST (UK)
Thanks, Cardiff and Halfasheep, for the wonderful background details. This is my wife's family and I had heard some snippets but you have made it possible for me to put them into a more complete context.

Rena, I had found the record of Jesse's accident, from which I deduce he was alive when he left the pit. Many thanks for directing my attention to the Compensation Register. I have now submitted an enquiry to the West Glam Archives.

I am now waiting for GRO to do their stuff. Hopefully the death certificate will confirm where, and of what, he died and make the sequence of events a little clearer.
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: cardiff on Thursday 04 August 11 20:01 BST (UK)
Hi
Please let us know what he died of  and any other info you think we would like to know
cheers cardiff ;)
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: Brentor boy on Saturday 13 August 11 09:44 BST (UK)
I have now received Jesse's death certificate which shows that he died at North Rhondda Colliery from "shock and injuries accidentally sustained by being caught in a coal cutting machine at colliery". No post mortem, inquest held on 13 February 1929. Interestingly his address is shown as 14 Cwmcass(?) Glyncorrwg which could explain why there was no mention of his death/inquest in the Rhondda paper. I am also intrigued why the colliery should have recorded this simply as an "injury"

Can any one tell me if/where newspaper archives are held, possibly containing material relating to this period and location, and if/how I might access them?
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: cardiff on Saturday 13 August 11 10:12 BST (UK)
Hi
 How sad I thought it had to be shock! Regarding the accident recorded as injury it would not suprise me that because he did not die at the face it looked better for the pit to recorded as an injury.
His address is interesting also, its funny but relatives have the habit of suprising you with info you were sure could not be right!
I hope someone out there will know  what newspaper there could have been info in.
cheers cardiff :)
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: halfasheep on Saturday 13 August 11 11:57 BST (UK)
Hmm, no idea where Cwmcass is?

Cwm is valley, but Cass?? There are not a lot of streets in Glyncorrwg, but I have no idea how many (if any) have been demolished over the years. I'm doubtful that entire streets have been demolished there as the only real changes to the area have been much further up the same valley (Mountain Biking Centre, ponds). The streets in the valley are all fairly close together as well, so the only part I can think there may have been another street is where some of the 1960's/1970's council-type housing have been built.

May be worth trying to dig out an older map - it shouldn't take much to find it
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: Morganllan on Saturday 13 August 11 21:39 BST (UK)
Hello  :)

You can find Cwm Cas on Old Maps:

http://www.old-maps.co.uk/maps.html?coords=287500,199200

There is also a river/stream Nant Cwm Cas. There are "Workings", "dismantled railway" and "disused tramway" in the same area on the map, south of the Dunraven Forest.

The local newspaper could be "Neath Guardian" which should be available from Neath Port Talbot Library.

Kind Regards
Morgan
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: Brentor boy on Saturday 13 August 11 23:27 BST (UK)
Thanks for your continuing interest and suggestions, particularly Morganllan. Your support and encouragement has helped me see Jesse as real person in a real landscape. Hopefully I will be able to trace reference to him in the newspapers which will add to my knowledge and understanding.
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: Morganllan on Saturday 13 August 11 23:32 BST (UK)
You are very welcome  :D

Here's a pic taken near Cwm Cas Cottages in 1940s:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/southwest/sites/inpictures/pages/cymmer_mines.shtml?7

Kind Regards
Morgan
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: Kevin137 on Sunday 14 August 11 12:34 BST (UK)
July 1890  Rhondda tunnel link to coalfield.
but still don't know when it closed...

Rail traffic on the Cymmer Afan to Treherbert section of the line ceased in February 1968 after the tunnel failed a safety inspection. The "temporary" suspension of services proved permanent once the likely cost of repairing the tunnel had been estimated!
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: cardiff on Sunday 14 August 11 13:11 BST (UK)
Kevin123
 Thanks for clearing that up, most people do not realize there was a tunnel there. I will up date my info on that bit of railway
cheers cardiff ;)
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: Brian T3 on Monday 23 January 12 16:14 GMT (UK)
Hmm, no idea where Cwmcass is?

Cwm is valley, but Cass?? There are not a lot of streets in Glyncorrwg, but I have no idea how many (if any) have been demolished over the years. I'm doubtful that entire streets have been demolished there as the only real changes to the area have been much further up the same valley (Mountain Biking Centre, ponds). The streets in the valley are all fairly close together as well, so the only part I can think there may have been another street is where some of the 1960's/1970's council-type housing have been built.

May be worth trying to dig out an older map - it shouldn't take much to find it

Cwmcas was a row of cottages basically on site at South Pit, Glyncorrwg.
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: Brian T3 on Monday 23 January 12 16:23 GMT (UK)
An entry in the index of the Probate Calender indicates that Jesse Coomb(e)s of 10 Bodringallt Tce, Ystrad Rhondda died on 11 Feb 1929 at North Rhondda Colliery, Glyncorrwg. According to the Coal Mining History Resource Centre, he only suffered an accident on that date.

The death was registered in Neath, suggesting that it occurred either at the mine or an adjacent hospital. If it had happened at his home I would have expected that it would have been registered in Pontypridd. I have not yet obtained a copy death certificate which, in any case, would only confirm details of his death, not the circumstances surrounding it.

Anthony Pritchard, of Treorchy Library, has searched for reference to the accident/death, or any subsequent inquest, in local newspaper archives, without success. I appreciate that in those times such an event was not so exceptional but surely it must have prompted some official reaction. Can anyone please suggest what I might now do to trace the relevant records?



 I worked in North Rhondda from 1953 until its closure in 1960. I find it difficult to believe that someone from the Rhondda valley worked there due to the problem of transport on a daily basis.
The only link would be the Treorchy- Blaengwyni rail tunnel, then there would have to be further transportation to N.Rhondda,Glyncorrwg. It would seem impossible to do this on a daily basis.
The registrar of births, deaths & marriages was in Neath, so that part seems right, also mining accidents from Glyncorrwg were generally transported to Neath General Hospital.
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: Brentor boy on Monday 23 January 12 19:45 GMT (UK)
Thanks, Brian. I have now established from his death certificate that, at the time of his accident, Jesse was living at 14 Cwmcass, so was not travelling from Treorchy.
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: Brian T3 on Monday 23 January 12 23:29 GMT (UK)
Thanks, Brian. I have now established from his death certificate that, at the time of his accident, Jesse was living at 14 Cwmcass, so was not travelling from Treorchy.

My  grandfather worked there as a master haulier in those years.
 As well as N.Rhondda #1 & #2 there was another drift on the other side of the river, fairly high up in the mountain called Crows Nest. He had to have a spare set of clothes to change into during the shift due to the amount of water in that mine.
 I have not been able to find any reference to this mine anywhere.
 
Also he was living in Abergwynfi at the time, in a 2 up 2 down house, one of 14 inhabitants. :o
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: Morganllan on Tuesday 24 January 12 01:27 GMT (UK)
Hello Brian T3  :)

Welcome to Rootschat!

Thank you for contributing to this post with your local knowledge and personal experience. I hope that you will enjoy your time on Rootschat and continue to contribute to the Glamorgan board.  :)

Kind regards
Morgan
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: Brian T3 on Tuesday 24 January 12 06:53 GMT (UK)
Thanks Morgan, I drifted into your site quite by accident.
 It looks good and I will try to keep posting.
 Thanks,
 Brian Thomas. Ex Cymmer, port Talbot now Leesburg Florida. (In the warm ;)