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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Cumberland => England => Cumberland Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Kinsy on Sunday 31 July 11 17:10 BST (UK)
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I am looking for the parents/siblings/family of John Graham born c.1796 in Wetheral, Cumberland.
He married Francis Maria Gillson and became vicar of Hinxton (CoE) - the family are in the 1851 and 1861 census.
His parents may have been Joseph Graham and Mary Hobson.
The family owned Wetheral Shields Farm and I have 9 letters addressed to him in Hinxton regarding the management of the farm, rents collected, etc. The letters were from William Robinson (1837-1853) and T Mandell (1857-1860), both of whom were his cousins.
Amongst the old family documents there are also three for Thomas Chapman of Gretton, Northamptonshire - his will 1789, land tax exemption 1799 and a conveyancing document 1733 - but have no idea who he is or how he is connected to the Grahams.
Any information would be much appreciated.
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Hi Kinsy
The Family Search website has the following baptism:
26 June 1796
Wetheral, Cumberland
John Graham, son of
Joseph Graham & Mary Hobson
Dazey
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Marriage notice in the Bury & Norwich Post & Suffolk Herald (Tues 3 Sep 1867)
On the 28th ult at Barnes, Surrey, Robert Watson, son of R Willis Esq, MD, of Barnes, to Helen, 2nd daughter of the late Rev John Graham, Vicar of Hinxton and Swavesey, Cambs.
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Thanks again, Dazey.
Hopefully some kind person in Carlisle will find something in the parish records about his parents/siblings - and to which branch of the millions of Grahams they belonged.
And it would be nice to find out how long they owned Wetheral Shields farm and what happened to it.
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If you google Graham Hinxton, you'll find an entry in the ebook Visitation of England & Wales (vol. 17) which mentions the marriage of Margaret Frederica Graham Ommaney, John's grand-daughter. John's daughter Emily Sophia Graham married Frederick Gream Ommaney in Richmond, Surrey, in 1871.
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Could this be Joseph Graham's christening:
28 May 1769, Irthington, Cumberland
son of Thomas Graham
and marriage to Mary Hobson:
16 Jun 1789
Wetheral, Cumberland
possible son (Joseph) christened 6 October 1799 at Denby, York
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Thanks for the useful information. Got me on the right track. They apparently had 4 children - Ann 1789, Thomas 1790, John 1796 and Mary 1800. So christening in 1799 can't be one of their children - but the 1769 christening is promising.
Thanks
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Have you seen the entry for John Graham in the CCED database? He appears to have died July 8, 1862, aged 70? Before Hinxton he was at Swavesey 1833 and before that at Comberton 1830 etc etc etc. He also appears to have applied for the chaplaincy at Heidelberg a few years before his death.
Also the alumni records at Cambridge suggests he was the son of John r of Bewcastle although this is not definitive.
Probably worth a search on national archives as well.
Hope it helps
regards
Deborah
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Yes, I have seen his CCED record - thanks, Deborah.
Altho there was some info in it that I found baffling: his sons are listed as William (1856), Charles (1858) and John (1859). However, in the 1851 census his sons are 13, 11 and 9 respectively, which matches info in the 1841 and 1861 census - so they would have been born approx 1838,1840 and 1842.
John's age in the census is also confusing - 45 yrs in 1841, 38 yrs in 1851 and 68 in 1861. Presumably a typo (or "writo" :) in 1851.
There must have been a large family of Grahams living in Wetheral - on FamilySearch there are 136 John Grahams listed just for starters. If only more of the Graham descendants would get hooked on the genealogy bug :) :)
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John's age in the census is also confusing - 45 yrs in 1841, 38 yrs in 1851 and 68 in 1861. Presumably a typo (or "writo" :) in 1851.
Transcription error - census image shows 58. :)
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historicaldirectories.org has both Mandell and Robinson as Farmers in Wetherall (search under Mandell) but Shields as occupied by J Blacklock and/or Jp Palmer (I think). Worth checking? bob
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Thanks so much, bob. will check it out right now.
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Bob, I found Thos Mandell in the historical directories - thanks. What an interesting site!! I kept getting sidetracked reading some of the histories and info. Wonderful.
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Isn't it just! Not the easiest site to navigate but well worth spending the time. Maybe they are expanding other parts of the country but I wish they would expand Cumberland. It's been those same 12 directories since I discovered the site 10 or so years ago. bob
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Hi Kinsy,
I am researching the Mandell family in Cumberland and would be very interested in any information you might have on Thomas Mandell, the land he was farming at Wetheral, and the relationship between Thomas Mandell and John Graham.
Many members of the Mandell family became ministers of the Church of England and I am especially interested in further examples within the extended family.
I am at a fairly early stage in the research and have yet to pay a visit to the Archives in Carlisle, but will hopefully get there in the next month and would be very happy to look things up for you / share information wherever our interests overlap.
Regards,
Jane
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Hi Jane,
Lovely to read your post. Firstly, apologies for an error in my original post - Thomas Mandell and my g/g/gfather weren't cousins. Sorry, sheer carelessness on my part.
I've scanned and transcribed the letters and will be happy to email them to you - will put my email address in your PM box.
It would be absolutely wonderful if you could help with any info from the Carlisle archives. Thanks so much for your kind offer.
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Hello Kinsy
I'm in complete amazement at finding your post from four years ago which I had entirely missed. John Graham is my great great grandfather. His son Charles was born in Hinxton and emigrated to Australia where he gained considerable success in public life, but sadly died not long after the birth of my grandfather George Graham.
Charles had four children but only my grandfather had any children - my mother Elizabeth Graham, and a son John Graham. I have two cousins, and I have one daughter, and she is potentially the last of that line of Grahams. I do not know of any other descendants on Charles.
I have been absent from Ancestory for some years due to an overload of work and family commitments so I was thrilled to discover the information you posted.
I would be absolutely delighted to get in touch and be able to access the letters: how amazing!
With kind regards Jane
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Hi again Kinsy - not Jane Wing, not the other Jane above!
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Sorry for repeat posts, for all those previously interested in this thread, the following confirms My great grandfather Charles' parentage as John http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/graham-charles-james-3648
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Hi Jane - so exciting to read your post and discover a new distant cousin !!
I'll PM you later this evening.
P.S. am mystified by your "not Jane Wing" post
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JaneWAust - hope you saw my message in your PM box ?
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Hello, I have just come across this thread years after it was initially posted, but thought I would chime in anyway. My g/g/g grandmother was John Graham's sister, Ann Graham. She married John Mitchinson, and lived in Carlisle, and their daughter Jane was my g/g grandmother. Jane emigrated to Canada in the 1860s. I believe Ann Graham was born at Wheelbarrow Hall in Wetheral, so not the farm you referred to in your post. Does that make sense? Great to get all this great information about the family.
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Sorry to disappoint, Rachel, by "my" Ann (Nancy) Graham didn't marry. She died Intestate in 1828, and her brother Rev John Graham was appointed Administrator of her estate.
I presume that "your" Ann was born sometime between 1780 and 1800, so I searched through my list of baptisms in Wetheral (1665-1864), but cannot find one for your Ann. I have, however, extracted the following baptisms for children with parents living at Wheelbarrow Hall at that time - which might help in your search for Ann's parents.
Child Baptised Father, occupation Mother
Jane 14/07/1793 George Graham, cooper Mary Lancaster
John 21/09/1794 Henry Graham, labourer Isabella Nicholson
John (illegit) 11/08/1799 John Milburne Mary Graham, s/woman
Mary 17/09/1775 Richard Graham Ann
Thomas 06/06/1784 Thomas Graham, labourer Jane
John 13/01/1782 William Graham Mary*
Jane 17/02/1782 William Graham
Mary 06/07/1783 William Graham, labourer Mary*
Mary 23/07/1785 William Graham, labourer Mary*
John (illegit) 06/02/1785 -- Ann Graham
Sarah (illegit) 21/10/1792 -- Ann Graham
*possibly Mary Scarrow - she & Wm married 07/06/1778
Good luck in your search.
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Kinsy, Thanks for that info. So interesting that she's not in those records. According to Family Search, she appears in "England Births and Christenings" as being Christened at Wetheral, Jan 3, 1790, to parents Joseph Graham and Mary Hobson. Do you know if Joseph Graham and Mary Hobson lived at Wheelbarrow Hall? Perhaps that's the part I have wrong.
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Yes, your Ann is in the baptism list, Rachel !! sorry, I was just looking for parents from Wheelbarrow Hall.
Her father Joseph is a farmer of The Shield - I'll sift through my BMD lists to see if there's any other info for him or Mary.
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You probably already have these baptisms, Rachel:
Thomas 1791/1/02
John 1796/6/26
Mary 1800/4/27
In all of them father Joseph was a farmer - of The Shield in 1791, and Scotby Shield in 1796 & 1800.
Joseph & Mary married 1789/6/16, witnesses were Peter Hobson & Thomas Graham.
I think these are Joseph & Mary's burials:
- Joseph of Scotby, 88 yrs (ie b.c1767, but I can't find a Wetheral baptism that matches)
- Mary of Scotby, 75 yrs (ie b.c1765)
All of the above were in the Holy Trinity church in Wetheral.
P.S. looking at previous posts, I can see why you thought Joseph & Mary were my ancestors - but the parents of "my" John and Ann were William & Mary (Robinson).
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Oops - forgot to put the burial dates.
Joseph 1855/12/05
Mary 1840/04/01
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I'm pursuing some DNA matches in Ancestry with a Graham line at Wetheral so thought I'd post the info here in hopes someone may recognize it. It may be connected to my own Graham line of Irthington
William Graham b. abt 1828 at Eden Brows, Wetheral (according to census records). William married Isabella Nevins and lived in Durham
I had thought he was a possible son of John & Mary Graham living at Wheelbarrow Hall, Wetheral in 1841/1851. But that William appears to remain in Wetheral. I haven't been able to find another William. Eden Brows is very close to Wallace Field. My Graham line does have a connection there. Margaret Graham b. 1778 Irthington, daughter of Robert Graham & Mary Henderson (my ancestors) married Richard Slack in 1808 at Wetheral. Margaret and son Joseph are living at Wallace Field in 1841, also in the household are Mary Graham, age 65, James Graham age 40 and Richard Graham age 20. In the 1861 there is a Graham family living at Eden Brown. William Graham, age 68, b. Arthuret, Jane age 67 b. Kirklinton, Richard, 40 b. Kirklinton, George 37, b. Kirklinton, but I don't know if they're connected or not.
Any info appreciated.
Thanks,
Cody
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Found William Graham b.1828 in the Wetheral parish records index.
He was baptised 1/6/1828 and his parents were William Graham and Mary Sanderson, who married in St Cuthberts, Carlisle, 18/6/1822, and had two other children baptised in Wetheral - Thomas 5/6/1836, and Emma 3/6/1838.
In the 1828 bapt, Wm (snr) was a farmer at High Stand, and in 1836 and 1838 he was a Labourer in Scotby.
Also in the Wetheral records are the burials of William and Mary Graham, who died 1877 and 1878 in Harraby Workhouse - but I don't know if this is the same William and Mary.
That William was 84 yrs when he died, so born c1793 - and Mary was 81y, so b.c1797.
The closest year I could find for a Wetheral bapt of any William Graham was 1790 - parents George Graham and Mary Lancaster. George was a Cooper at Warwick Bridge, and also at Wheelbarrow Hall.
I have quite a lot of BMD info for the Grahams in Wetheral - much of it unrelated to my branch, because there were so many of them !! and it's v.difficult untangling all the different families, many of whom, as far as I can gather, were unrelated.
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Thanks very much! Yes the number of Grahams creates a real tangle.
It's curious that Eden Brow wasn't listed as the residence. He listed that as his birthplace on the 1861/1881 census but gave Scotby in 1871. The gap in children is also curious.
I found Emma and Thomas living with their mother in Botchergate in 1851. Mary is widowed, age 53 and born in Coathill.
I can't locate them in the 1841 census. I guess I'm stuck on this line for the moment!
I was curious if there is anymore information on the marriage of Margaret Graham to Richard Slack in 1808 such as witnesses?
I also have some other known Graham's at Wetheral so I'll detail them for you which may help with some of your sorting.
James Graham b. 1788 at Irthington s/o of my Robert & Mary married Eleanor Harkness in 1826 at Gretna Green. Their eldest son, Robert, was baptised at Wetheral in 1827. Their other children were baptised at Carlisle. The family was living at St Cuthbert in 1841 and Botchergate in 1851.
On a different branch of my family Isabella Warwick bap 1793 Kirklinton, daughter of my ancestors Richard Warwick & Isabella Sinclair married Joseph Graham in 1811 at St Mary, Carlisle. Their early children were bap at Carlisle but they were living in Wetheral by about 1827 where son William was bap in 1827, Robert in 1827, John 1830, William 1833, William 1837 and Mary Jane 1840. The family was living in Wetheral in 1841 and emigrated to the US in 1842.
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Richard Slack was a widower when he married Margaret G, both of Wetheral parish and the witnesses were Jane Young and Thomas Dixon.
The gap in Wm/Mary's children is curious, but maybe some of their children were baptised in Carlisle.
And I'm glad that it wasn't that Wm/Mary who died in the workhouse :)
I've no idea whether any of the Grahams in the censuses were distant relations, because our G male ancestor moved from Wetheral in 1797. But the Wetheral connection continued for another century, because he inherited a lot of tenanted land and houses (copyhold/customary) in Wetheral, which were passed down to the eldest son in each succeeding generation.
There was also a family connection to Eden Brows/Froddle Crook, which belonged to one of our Graham ancestors (a g/g/g/g/uncle) and was inherited by his son, who was there in the 1841 and 1851 censuses, but died before 1861.