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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: fortmap on Friday 29 July 11 22:51 BST (UK)

Title: What is this man's rank? Can anything else be discerned?
Post by: fortmap on Friday 29 July 11 22:51 BST (UK)
Hello,
This is a picture of my grandfather. I am trying to find more information about what he did in the first world war. His name is William Ernest Keeling, and I have been told that he was a despatch rider, used to carry homing pigeons on his bike, and that he was in Fromelles at some point. He was also born in 1885.

Anything that can be gathered from this information and the photo would be most useful.
Thank you, everybody and anybody!
Title: Re: What is this man's rank? Can anything else be discerned?
Post by: manmack on Saturday 30 July 11 01:21 BST (UK)
the cap badge looks like the royal engineers,there was a corporal 74961 william,e keeling who served in the engineers,landed in france on 31-7-15,the boots are the type that were worn by despatch riders

mack
Title: Re: What is this man's rank? Can anything else be discerned?
Post by: fortmap on Saturday 30 July 11 08:19 BST (UK)
Nice. You have found the same medals card that I thought might be him. Do the stripes on the arm mean that he is a Corporal?

I ordered the medal card on the national archives last night, but was disappointed because it was a poor black and white scan. :(
Title: Re: What is this man's rank? Can anything else be discerned?
Post by: fortmap on Saturday 30 July 11 08:31 BST (UK)
Here he is again, this time on his bike. Looks like he's a sergeant here. Is there any way of figuring out when he got the promotion?

???

Title: Re: What is this man's rank? Can anything else be discerned?
Post by: mmm45 on Saturday 30 July 11 10:18 BST (UK)
He was probably in one of the Royal Engineers signalling Companys by the sound of your descriptions of his duties and the armbands.
Do you have access to Ancestry? If so you can get a colour copy of his MIC

Hard to tell when he was promoted without record :(

If there was a motorbike expert he may be able to date the machine but it could be anytime between 1915 and 1921 as no medal ribbons are worn

Ady
Title: Re: What is this man's rank? Can anything else be discerned?
Post by: manmack on Saturday 30 July 11 12:00 BST (UK)
he may not be a full sergeant,he may be a lance sgt,this rank is only a temporary appointment,not a promotion,technically a lance sgt is a cpl and paid a cpls rate of pay,lance sgts usually revert back to cpl,or are promoted to sgt when the next available sgts vacancy come up,he looks like hes got the pigeon carriers badge above his stripes,the armbands[red+white] are for personell who were serving with the staff HQ.

mack
Title: Re: What is this man's rank? Can anything else be discerned?
Post by: mmm45 on Saturday 30 July 11 12:29 BST (UK)
White above blue denotes Signals armband but its B+W So we wont know :)

Ady
Title: Re: What is this man's rank? Can anything else be discerned?
Post by: fortmap on Saturday 30 July 11 13:39 BST (UK)
Thank you for your replies, everybody. You have all been most helpful. :)

(I have no access to ancestry - too expensive for me)
Title: Re: What is this man's rank? Can anything else be discerned?
Post by: old rowley on Saturday 30 July 11 14:05 BST (UK)
The motorcycle looks like it could be a Model H. Triumph 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triumph_Model_H

OR.
Title: Re: What is this man's rank? Can anything else be discerned?
Post by: mmm45 on Saturday 30 July 11 15:05 BST (UK)
Think you are bang on the spot there OR :)

Ady
Title: Re: What is this man's rank? Can anything else be discerned?
Post by: ThomasJames1918 on Wednesday 01 February 12 17:45 GMT (UK)
Here i have got a small squad photo of my GreatGrandad Stanley Lyman (Bottom left) and i was wondering if you could recognise your grandfather in the photo because my grandfather was a Signaller/Dispatch rider in the royal engineers even thought there is a very small chance.
             
                                                       
Title: Re: What is this man's rank? Can anything else be discerned?
Post by: Stebie9173 on Monday 13 February 12 00:41 GMT (UK)
Just to confirm:

Royal Engineers Sergeants had a grenade above their stripes. It isn't anything to do with a trade (pigeons, or otherwise).


William Keeling was mentioned in despatches as a M.C. Corporal with "B" Corps Signal Company in the London Gazette of 23-12-1918. He has an MID card with the other medal cards online under W E Keeling.

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/31080/supplements/15041


He was also awarded the Meritorious Service Medal:

London Gazette 17-6-1918

74961 M.C. Cpl. W. E. Keeling, R.E. (Bournemouth)

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/30750/supplements/7153





The nearest date to WIlliam's of a Divisional Signal Company embarking to France was the 37th Division on 29th July 1915, but he may have served with Corps Signals throughout the war, so the Divisional level may not be applicable anyway.



Steve.