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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Ivy May on Thursday 28 July 11 12:24 BST (UK)
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Dear Sir/Madam,
John Robert WARD
Born 17th {or 11th} May 1837 Liverpool {Lancashire}
Died 22nd April 1923 Aberystwith, Wales
Occupation Cook/Confectioner
Married Amelia RAVEN 5th June 1859, Warwickshire, Coventry
John Robert WARD is my 2nd Great Grandfather & my brick wall! I am endeavouring to find his parents & family & I cannot seem to find them.
His parents died before he was 3 years old, He went to Chester when he was 9 months old. He was bought up by his "Step Grandfather & Step Grandmother", his "Grandfather" died when he was 8 years old, his college education finished when he was 8 years old. His first job was carting bark for a tan yard. His next job was cabin boy aboard the "Cheshire Lass" a cheese schooner, slates. I have further information on other jobs he had in the Chester area. He also did an apprenticeship & ran away & went to Gaol for a few days, he was bought before the Mayor & went back to his apprenticeship & he did receive his indentures from Messrs Jones - the confectioners during the Crimean War.
I also noted that on John Robert WARD'S death certificate it states that his father is Robert WARD & his occupation was a Currier.
I have John Robert WARD'S reminiscences from the Ward family bible which I tried to attach but I could not get the attachment function to work.
Any assistance would be most appreciated or if you could point me in the right direction I would be most grateful.
Kindest regards,
Ivy May {King Island, Australia}
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How annoying - if the birth date is accurate he missed Civil Registration by only a few weeks! Otherwise his birth cert would give you his parents!
HAve you got him on any censuses?
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1861 census - after his marriage:
Reference RG09, Piece 259, Folio 133, Page 29
27 Nelson Street, Bethnal Green, Middlesex
Ward, John Head M 26 Confectioner b Liverpool, Lancashire
Ward, Amelia Wife F 24 Silk Weaver b Coventry, Warwickshire
Ward, John R Son M 1 b St Johns Wood, Middlesex
Raven, Sarah Sister-in-Law F 19 Silk Weaver b Coventry, Warwickshire
That puts his date of birth in 1835?
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He has come south by 1861
RG9 259 133 29
27 Nelson Street, Bethnal Green
John 26 confectioner bn Liverpool
Amelia 24 silk weaver bn Coventry
John R son 1 bn St Johns Wood
Sarah Raven 19 sister in law unm silk weaver bn Coventry
MAry Davis lodger 66 widow bn Colchester Essex
snap KGarrad!
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Any names given for step grandparents in Cheshire?
There is this household in 1841
HO107 100 9
Mottram, Cheshire
Robert Thatcher 66 Taylor (sic) Y
Jane 55 N
Michael Ward 8 N
John Ward 6 N
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Or maybe this one?!
Reference HO107, 129, 14/17, 29
Union Terrace, Chester
Ward, John M 75 Labourer
Ward, Elizabeth F 45
Ward, William M 25 Butcher
Ward, John M 4
Smith, Margaret F 20 all born in county
Was he actually born in Liverpool?
Or maybe over the water in Birkenhead or The Wirral?
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Hi everyone,
I am new at this so please excuse me if I am doing this incorrectly, I wish to reply to you all individually, but I am not sure how so I hope you all get to read this.
Firstly I am overwhelmed by your response & thank you so much for your help.
Yes, I have him on the following census's 1861, 1871, 1881, 1891, 1901 & 1911 but they are not helping me locate his parents/Step Grandparents.
I am not sure if he was born "over the water in Birkenhead or The Wirral" This had never occured to me.
I do not have any names of the Step Grandparents.
I am unsure where to go from here but you have all given me a lot to think on.
Would I be able to look up where he did his apprenticeship? Or when he went to Gaol for 3 days? Perhaps his step grandparents name's are on his indentures? Or records of his schooling/employment? I am clutching at straws!
I thank you all once again.
Regards,
Ivy May
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Do you have his marriage certificate, this would help in searching, was he catholic ?
who were the witness to his marriage ,
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The Schooner Cheshire Lass was built in Runcorn in 1857 and was lost on the 15 th of April 1880
it was owned by S Revenscroft of Runcorn,
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If the 1841 census that KGarrad posted is the right family, there is a death for a John Ward aged 82 in Chester 1845 which would fit with the family information (www.cheshirebmd.org.uk).
I've found William the butcher from the 1841 in 1851 (HO107 2171/708 Page 52) still on Union Terrace and married - and with a son called Robert - but can't see John Robert.
Jean
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Hi everyone,
Well you have all given me a lot to go with & Thank you once again.
Re his marriage certificate which I do have - the witness's were his wife's family & they were married at St Peters church, in the Parish of Holy Trinity, Warwickshire, Coventry, England. I cannot tell if he was Catholic?
Ivy
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Hi Ivy,
John Robert Ward was also my 2nd great-grandfather. The information that I have which I expect to be reliable identifies his parents as Thomas Ward (born about 1794) and his wife Mary (born about 1805), both parents having been born in Ireland.
May I ask from which of John Robert Ward's children that you are a descendant?
Best,
Robert
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Hi Robert,
How nice to hear from you. Thank you for your message! Another Robert!
May I ask from which of John Robert Ward's children that you are a descendant?
My Grandfather: John Robert Ward b1908 Hanwell, Middlesex, England
My Great Grandfather: Francis Stanley Ward b1873 Kensington, England
My Great, Great Grandfather: John Robert Ward b1837 Liverpool, Lancashire, England (My brick wall).
I would dearly like to talk further but it is getting late.
John Robert has written the following:
" His parents died before he was 3 years old, He went to Chester when he was 9 months old. He was bought up by his "Step Grandfather & Step Grandmother", his "Grandfather" died when he was 8 years old, his college education finished when he was 8 years old. His first job was carting bark for a tan yard. His next job was cabin boy aboard the "Cheshire Lass" a cheese schooner, slates. I have further information on other jobs he had in the Chester area. He also did an apprenticeship & ran away & went to Gaol for a few days, he was bought before the Mayor & went back to his apprenticeship & he did receive his indentures from Messrs Jones - the confectioners during the Crimean War. "
Hope to hear from you.
Kindest regards,
Ivy May Ward
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The information that I have which I expect to be reliable identifies his parents as Thomas Ward (born about 1794) and his wife Mary (born about 1805), both parents having been born in Ireland.
He was not the son of Thomas WARD. That John WARD was an apprentice Cooper in 1851 and he married Elizabeth ASHTON in 1859.
Marriage: 13 Dec 1859 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire
John WARD - full, Cooper, Bachelor, Soho St.
Elizabeth ASHTON - full, Spinster, Henry St.
Groom's Father: Thomas WARD, Furniture Broker
Bride's Father: William ASHTON, Porter
Witnesses: Michael Ward; Charlotte Burgess
Married by Banns by W. R. Duncan, Curate
Register: Marriages 1859 - 1860, Page 182, Entry 363
Source: LDS Film 1656680
https://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html
He is with his wife and son Lewis/Louis in Liverpool in 1861.
Debra :)
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Hi Debra,
Thank you so much for the information and the link. I am not sure, however, which parish that I should be searching, under the link.
Best regards,
Robert
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Three lines down, click on 'You may click here to begin searching the whole county'.
He also did an apprenticeship & ran away & went to Gaol for a few days, he was bought before the Mayor & went back to his apprenticeship & he did receive his indentures from Messrs Jones - the confectioners during the Crimean War. "
24 Jan 1857
Cheshire Observer
Chester Police Court
John Ward was brought up for absenting himself without leave from his master, Mr W.C. Jones, Confectioner's service. Complainant said that now defendant was getting useful to him he wanted to go elsewhere, so that he might earn more than he otherwise would while serving his apprenticeship. He attributed it to his companion, who no doubt urged him to run away. Defendant said he ran away because the hours of business were so long. Mr Jones said he (defendant) would often make one hour's work into 5 or 6, and he had never any occasion to work more than 10 hours a day if he went about his business properly. Defendant had the choice of going to gaol or returning to his work - preferring the latter he left the court.
Debra :)