RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: jel on Wednesday 27 July 11 14:21 BST (UK)
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Hi, I was just reading what has been noted down by yourself re a resident of the Liverpool Asylum in NSW Australia and I was wondering if you would be able to help me with some information. I am looking for information on a George Summers who died in the Liverpool Asylum on the 3 January 1900. Apparently he was buried in the Pionee Park in Liverpool on the 4th January 1900 as a pauper. George Summers was born in Scotland in 1838 and came out to Austrlia in the 1850's. He was either a baker or a draper and lived in NSW for 35 years. He married Elizabeth Amy Peisley in 1874 and they had one daughter, Kathleen Amy Summers who was born in 1875. I don't live in NSW but in Melbourne so it is difficult to obtain this information. Thank you in anticipation of some assistance!!
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Hi there,
I will ask the Moderator to move your post to the Aussie Board, rather than leave it here on the Armed Forces Board .... (*)
I will of course try to help you with the thrust of your question.
Edit to add
:) I don't live in Sydney, so in the internet age it is perhaps more difficult to research from my armchair than from your Melbourne location. I am somewhat confused as where on the Armed Forces Board here at RChat you have found my comment "re a resident of the Liverpool Asylum in NSW Australia" but .... here's some thoughts (I have lots more, but these seem sensible to start with)...
Have you checked out the links on the NSW Resources Board,
Have you gone through the NSW SRO indexes
Do you have the 1900 d.c. for your chap, if so what are the details recorded on that, and do those details match up with any previous knowledge you held about that chap, thus comfirming he belongs on your own family tree ...
Cheers JM
(*)Moderator Comment: now split off and moved to Australia board :)
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I am obviously not very good at this!!! I will have to check again to see what on earth I was doing! sorry to have troubled you, I will sort it out. thanks for your advise anyway and thanks too for saying that you would put my message on the Australian message board!!! I would probably mess up doing that as well!
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:) Once upon a time I was new to RChat too .... and people helped me through too ...
So may I suggest that you simply wait for the moderator to move the thread across to the Aussie Board.... In the mean time ;D ;D
Hi Jel
Some thoughts ....
You have him arrived into Australia in the 1850’s do you know which colony please? Does the d.c. give you the number of years in the colonies,
Does it actually mention 35 years in NSW, and not make mention of the rest of the years .... (1900 – 1850’s is 40 to 50 years) .... have you considered NZ as an option for some of those elusive years
Re the 1874 marriage to Elizabeth Amy Peisley .... do you have that m.c. .... what were his parents names please..., his own occupation, his father’s occupation, and what was his usual address at that time
Re the daughter born 1875 ... do you have that b.c, where were the family living at that time .... Was this the only child for the couple, what happened to this lass or her mother,
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,369703.0.html
Cheers, JM
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Hi there Jel, across on the Australian board now !
Would this be the NSW registration for your chap, it was registered in the Liverpool District in 1900 .... #2084 ?
George Summers, his parents given names recorded on the index as David and Jeannette
Cheers, JM
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Umm couple of things.
George married Elizabeth A FLIDE in 1874 at Orange and they had a daughter but her name Was AMY K born 1875 at Orange.
Dont where Mss Peisley comes from though as there are no marriages to George ??? ???
Neil
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NSW Electoral Roll 1878 for Orange NSW
George Summers a householder at Orange (no street details displayed)
Thomas Summers a residence at Byng (again, no street details displayed)
C F Peisley, a residence at Orange (again no further details)
NSW Electrol roll for 1870 for Orange NSW
George Summers, a householder at Orange
Cheers, JM
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:(
Cannot find the surname FLIDE on the rolls for Orange in 1870 or 1878, perhaps a second marriage ....
Cheers, JM
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Not sure, perhaps .... (Speculating that an admin oversight had not removed name from roll)
NSW 1903 Electoral Roll for Canobolas, polling place Orange.
George Summers, letter carrier, of Orange (no further details)
NO others by that surname on the Orange roll.
Cheers, JM
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ELIZABETH A FLIDE and BENJAMIN were having children around Tamworth in the 1960's
Benjamin died
REG 7751 IN 1867 FLIDE BENJAMIN C
Father JAMES
Mother ELIZABETH
RYDE
Perhaps it is ELIZABETH's remarriage we are looking at.
Here it is in full index form.
REG 3475 IN 1874 SUMMERS GEORGE
To FLIDE ELIZABETH A
At ORANGE
Sue
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Wonder if ELIZABETH died in 1897
REG 12081 In 1897 SUMMERS ELIZABETH A
Father JOHN
Mother MARY
HURSTVILLE
Sue
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Perhaps an index typo at NSW BDM index?
Elizabeth A Peisley and Benjamin C Hyde marriage registered 1854 at Carcoar C of E (not far from Orange) ....
#V1854800 41B/1854
Cheers, JM
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Perhaps their (oops, I mean George and Elizabeth's) daughter married in 1895
#2242 gives Kathleen A Summers and Sydney A Hankey registered in Sydney
and
#2342 gives Kathleen F Summers and Sydney H Hankey registered in Sydney.
I am aware that there's a number of issues with the NSW BDM online index, but to me there's a number of co-incidences in those two entries, perhaps it was one marriage... those indexes are drawn from quarterly returns that were handwritten...
Cheers, JM
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Benjamin C Flide died 1867 so Elizabeth was free to marry again in 1874. Her maiden name may have been Peisley I have not checked the marriage.
Neil
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Short version
The NSW BDM Registrar General Office was not set up until mid 1850's.
They did not receive the marriage records from the years prior to that until the mid 1880s.
Even now, they still have not completed the reconciliation processes to complete their records for marriages pre WWI.
JM Comments
So, a clerk in Sydney NSW BDM decades after an Elizabeth A Peisley had married a chap at Carcoar in 1854 needed to include that marriage on the HO registry. The clerk is reading a handwritten record. The clerk does not recognise the handwriting, and reads the surname as Hyde.
JM Question Is it likely that the surname was Flide ...
JM Answer Yes, it could well be Flide, perhaps the Carcoar C of E parish records will have the entry.
Cheers, JM
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It appears that Elizabeth was the daughter of John and Mary although this is presumed. They had several more children born here 1840's-1850's after possible emmigration around the early 1840's.
Neil
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Some newspaper items as well as the NSW State records reveal that BENJAMIN CHARLS FLIDE was a surveyor under Sir Thomas Mitchell who in later years was living in Sydney, having moved from Orange.
He drowned in the Parramatta River aged 38 about 0/7/1867.
Sue
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Yes, Benjamin Charles FLIDE was involved in Surveying !
http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexsearch/keyname.aspx
There is a probate packet for him, which should give details of the beneficiaries
Benjamin Charles Flide Date of death 28 July 1867, Granted on 30 August 1867
http://investigator.records.nsw.gov.au/Search.aspx
Cheers, JM
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John PEISLEY ....
Sequestion at Orange in 1868 :) he was a storekeeper (NSW SRO index)
Cheers, JM
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Also -
death Harley Lennox Flide 28700/1947 - parents Benjamin C/UKN Burwood
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And Harley was born Tamworth ... 1862 ... that's a good find there Wivenhoe...
And there's no births indexed for Benjamin C and Elizabeth A HYDE
I hope Jel has found the thread has been moved from the Armed Forces Board, and will be pleased with all this information about his possible wife and her background :)
Cheers, JM
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A newspaper item about the drowning of BENJAMIN CHARLES appeared in the "EMPIRE" in 1867
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0eff/
Sue
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As an aside, I do find it interesting to note that ELIZABETH is not mentioned in death notice, Funeral Notice, details of drowning, or indeed, any of the newspaper items I have read about BENJAMIN and that includes the marriages of his children.
The child in such family notices is referred to only as son/daughter of B C FLIDE.
Perhaps that was just the place of a woman in those days, but it is odd.
Sue
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I have forebears who were in NSW in that era ... the funeral notices never seem to mention the names of the wife/mother etc... There's separate notices from each of the adult sons, sons in law, uncle, Grandfather, their Lodge, etc but no female names mentioned in "mine" death notices from say around 1860 until early 1900's ....
In one instance a notice (for my lot) reads along the lines of "The Relatives and Friends of Master ....... ........, nephew of the relict of ......... ........... of Sydney ....." and there's not a morsel of a mention of the lady's given names at all...
Perhaps it was a "Victorian Era" thing...
Cheers, JM
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Mmmm. Tough times.
I think ELIZABETH's father John PEISLEY was a convict, though of a different sort from our usual transportees.
He got his ticket of leave in 1845 and a note on the index (State Records) says he was born n the Colony and tried at Bathurst.
As early as 1817 he (or his father probably) had a spirituous liquors license at Parramatta. There was a Pub called the Coach and Horses in Parramatta for which he held the license.
By 1838 a pub of the same name was at Bathurst with the same named licensee.
Sue
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JM was born and raised in regional NSW, and at Primary School in the then subject "Social Studies" one topic was bushrangers... I remember learning about the local ones including Ben Hall and Frank Gardiner and a John Peisley .... so look what I have found online
http://www.nedkellysworld.com.au/bushrangers/peisley_j.htm
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/62403109 Bathurst Free Press 14 September 1861
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/62727652 Bathurst Free Press 3 February 1892 (includes historical info and detailed description of John Peisley and T of L info)
Cheers, JM
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Sands Directory 1867
Flide Charles, Surveyor, 10 Exchange p.r. Stanmore Rd, Marrickville. (10 Exchange would be in Sydney CBD, p.r. = private residence).
Cheers, JM
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Perhaps this would be John Peisley's father
(NSW SRO Index) PEISLEY Thomas ex the Agamemnon 1820 born Northampton
Trial at Bathurst CC and T of L 51/43
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/62045410 26 February 1848 Bathurst Advocate
Thomas Peisley, convicted the previous day cattle stealing, was sentenced seven years' hard labour on the public roads or works
Still no closer though to finding George Summers...
Edit to Add
I wonder if perhaps any of these NZ birth registrations are part of this particular George Summers tree . The parents are indexed as George and Elizabeth (Summers)..
https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/home/
1873 George; 1876 Hannah; 1878 Elizabeth; 1880 Albert Hall; 1883 Frederick Wallace;
Cheers, JM
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http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/14009902 SMH 3 May 1895
" HANKEY-SUMMERS.-April 27, at Sydney, by the Rev. G. Walters, Sydney Alers Hankey to Kathleen Amy Summers "
Alas, No mention of their respective parent/s
#2242 gives Kathleen A Summers and Sydney A Hankey registered in Sydney
and
#2342 gives Kathleen F Summers and Sydney H Hankey registered in Sydney.
I haven't found any births registered in NSW to this couple.
Cheers, JM
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Perhaps a sibling for Kathleen Amy Summer's husband "Alers" ?
DEATHS.Fi HANKEY.— Killed in action, at Paardeberg, on or about the 18th February, while serving with the Mounted Infantry, Lieutenant Hugh Martin Alers Hankey, 2nd Battalion Royal Warwickshire Regi ment, aged 27 years. Eldest son of Robert Alers Ilankcy, of 1, Chesham-plaee, Brighton, England, formerly of Warcowie, South Australia, and grand son of Mrs. Bakewell, Shirley, Payneham.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/56553746 Saturday 21 April 1900 South Australian Register
But Kathleen's father remains elusive... Perhaps he is mentioned on her m.c. ....
Cheers, JM
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Earlier threads by others looking for Kathleen
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=382591.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,382178.0.html
Fingers crossed these will help Jel.
Cheers, JM
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thanks a lot for all your interest and assistance.
Janet
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I think I am posting a reply to myself here but anyway just wanted to tell "JM" that the links on Kathleen that were sent to me were posted by a family member of mine when I started off my research. Thank you.
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Thanks, do you think we are on the "right track" for your chap's wife and daughter ....
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Yes, thanks, I know all about them, it's just George Summers himself that I don't know much about. I would like to know where he lived and what businesses he had (D.C. shows he was a draper) I would like to know when he arrived and on what ship and where he lived in Victoria and NSW besides Orange. He must have moved from Orange at some stage, maybe to the sydney area. His daughter, kathleen, was educated at the Brisbane Girls college In North Sydney. I would also like to know what happened to his parents. Did they come out with him? Did they stay in victoria? Did they even come to Australia? I can see on the NSW BMD's that there are three David Summers that died in NSW, two in 1854 and one in 1870. At this stage I don't want to go and order all these certs, they could be the wrong ones. I still need to do a lot more digging around. Shipping records are just awful to go through but I am trying to get through them. Found a few Summers but of course have no idea if they are my family.
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Hi there,
Do you have copy or transcript copy of George's
a) marriage certificate
b) death certificate
To my way of thinking, these would be important documents to learn about him. If you have that m.c., and if by chance there are blanks re his then age, or his parents or the like, then that is simply because the NSW BDM office has not yet completed the reconciliation process for many of the marriages from those decades pre WWI. The information was given to the clergy by the bride and groom (naming their respective parents, their fathers occupations, details of any previous marriages for the bride and/or groom etc) .... So that information should still be in the parish records for the church in which George and Elizabeth were married.
His death certificate should give you confirmation about his parents names, his marriage/s, spouse/s and child/ren .... his then occupation, etc, as well as the burial information, and how long he had been in the colonies, The d.c. should also name of the informant, which is often a way to appreciate any possible flaws in that information, for afterall, information on a d.c. is only as reliable as the informant's own understanding.
I am only NSW centric, so I do not know a great deal about Vic resources, but as you are Melbourne based, perhaps your State Library may be a good place for you to start .... I was not aware your George had been in Victoria.
Hi, I was just reading what has been noted down by yourself re a resident of the Liverpool Asylum in NSW Australia and I was wondering if you would be able to help me with some information. I am looking for information on a George Summers who died in the Liverpool Asylum on the 3 January 1900. Apparently he was buried in the Pionee Park in Liverpool on the 4th January 1900 as a pauper. George Summers was born in Scotland in 1838 and came out to Austrlia in the 1850's. He was either a baker or a draper and lived in NSW for 35 years. He married Elizabeth Amy Peisley in 1874 and they had one daughter, Kathleen Amy Summers who was born in 1875. I don't live in NSW but in Melbourne so it is difficult to obtain this information. Thank you in anticipation of some assistance!!
Cheers, JM
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Do you know how long your George Summers had been at the Liverpool Asylum?
There's a G. Sommers listed in the 1900 Sands Alphabetical directory of Sydney. The closing date for the printers was usually the end of October of the prior year.
Here's the listing for a G Sommers (with 'o' not 'u') at 30 Victoria St Nth Sydney.
There's also these two listings that may be of interest
George Summers 40 Abattoirs Rd, Balmain
George Summers 81 Curtis Rd, Balmain.
Cheers, JM
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Thank you very much for the Sands information. the George Summers in Curtis Street was the one I had been researching for two years, the incorrrect one. BUT maybe the other one you found in Abattoirs Rd is MY George Summers. Thanks a lot. George was admitted to the hospital in November 1899. Thanks a lot as well for your advice about the MC not having all the information. I think I will investigate that further with the church. Janet
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Re your George Summers at the Liverpool Asylum.
From that d.c. what was the recorded cause/s for his death in 1900.
Why do you assume he was buried as a pauper at the Pioneer Park at Liverpool? What cemetery is noted on that d.c?
The Pioneer Memorial Park was established in 1970 and includes the old St Lukes Cemetery....
http://www.liverpool.nsw.gov.au/pioneersmemorialpark.htm
Here's a link to someone researching Kathleen Amy Summers http://www.rootschat.com/links/0efk/
.... perhaps there's some clues for you to verify various details against various holdings in Victorian archives, which if like NSW archives are often found not just at the Archives/Records Office but in State Libraries, genealogy societies, family history groups etc ... I feel sure that there's various copies of the NSW Directories (not just the Sands ones) within the holdings of at least some of those groups.
At that shrunken link above, it shows a researcher has Elizabeth Peisley's birth (hopefully from a baptismal record as it was pre civil registrations in NSW) and both her marriages, (Flide and Summers), so it seems to me that when George married Elizabeth, she would have been noted as Elizabeth Flide on that marriage registration, and her status on the m.c. should be widow, nee Peisley. So I would anticipate you could follow that through at the local parish records simply with an email to their archivist who may well be a volunteer.
Oops, Edit to Add .... perhaps I have missed your answers...
.....
Do you have copy or transcript copy of George's
a) marriage certificate
b) death certificate
......
Cheers, JM
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Hi Janet,
Just noticed that I have not posted this newspaper cutting re George Summers, so Kathleen, even though in South Africa from shortly after her first marriage, and through her divorce from that chap, must have had contact with her Dad, and may well have been the sole beneficiary of his estate, if her mother was already deceased. His estate simply may not have needed to be probated.
It is possible that any headstone on his grave may have been lost between 1900 and 1970 when the Pioneer Memorial Park was established. Of course these are speculative but perhaps worthy of consideration when addressing any 'pauper' issues. Someone provided the informant on his d.c. with the information as to his parentage, and from my point of view that would usually indicate someone with a family connection to George provided that detail which in turn is displayed on the NSW BDM online index. I feel sure that who-ever provided that information would have been approached prior to his burial with the view to provide funds towards the cost of that burial, and thus there is a valid reason to consider if his was a pauper burial or a "funded" burial.
" MARRIAGES.
ATTWELL-HANKEY -August 1, at Newcastle, Natal, William Wilton, fourth son of the late James Attwell, British Kaffraria CC , to Kathleen Amy, daughter of the late George Summers of New South Wales."
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/14717823 31 October 1905 SMH
Have you explored the various resources boards here at RChat .... Here's the link to the Australian one, scroll down and within that there's each of the states/territories. Lots of good and easy to access links there . http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,399.0.html
Cheers, JM
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Hi Janet,
It is somewhat difficult for me to determine from your original post, if you may already have the following information about George Summers... but here is a chap who was born in 1838 whose father was a Baker on the 1841 Census, but that father was not around that neighbourhood on the 1851 Census, when that particular George was 12 and living with his mother, and others, at the next door address to their 1841 address. The 1851 head of the household was that chap's 'step-brother' ... (which of course in those times also could mean 'half-brother')
So, perhaps this is new information for you, and gives you something to research further re your George Summers and his likely Scottish origins.
Here’s my transcript of an index showing George Summers aged 2 in 1841 in the following household at 55 Bisto Street Edinburgh:
David Summers, a BAKER,
George Summers, 2,
Jannet Summers, 30,
John Young 12,
Alexander Young 10,
James Young 6,
Margaret Young 8,
Margaret Robertson 16
Here's my transcript of an index showing George Summers and Alexander Young at 53 Bisto St in 1851 ...
Alexander Young 30, Master Baker, employing 2 men.
Janet Henderson, mother, 43
Margaret Young 19,
James Young 17,
George Summers, step brother 12,
Henry Dick, 15
Also there’s an index (Scotland Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950) showing George Summers born 26 May 1838 in Edinburgh, son of David Summers and Janet Henderson.
And there’s an index (Scotland Marriages, 1561-1910) showing David Summers married Janet Henderson or Young 10 Apr 1837 at St Cuthberts, Edinburgh. Her father was noted as John Henderson.
I am not sure if there's anything further I can follow up for you, I am not Sydney based, so my access to Archival material is limited to online indexes and then pondering over spending pennies on ordering the various items that may interest me. I presume you have checked the archival records at Melbourne's Public Records Office of Victoria. I understand it includes not just the Victorian Archives, but also the National Archives of Australia's Victoria office.
http://prov.vic.gov.au/visiting-us
Cheers, JM
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Thanks once again, JM, for your assistance. Yes, that is my George Summers in the 1841 and 1851 census. Janet (Jeannette) Summers was married before to Alexander Young before marrying David Summers. I haven't had much of a chance to look up anything in Victoria yet as I have been concentrating so far on the NSW side of things as far as George Summers is concerned. It is probably because I know he was in Orange in 1874 and 1875 and I know he died in NSW in 1900. Thank you for the link which I didn't have, I will have a look at it now. One thing I have discovered in the NSW BMD is that there is only one Janet Summers that died in NSW and her father is listed as a "Campbell" and that's not right. This makes me think that maybe George's parents, David and Janet or (Jeannette) were not living in NSW, maybe they stayed in Victoria.
Regards Janet
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Good thinking about the pauper or funded burial, I hadn't thought of that. I actually wondered how there was so much information on the DC. thanks for the Rootschat link, I am still learning my way around this website.
Janet
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thanks too for the newspaper cutting. I think I have exhausted the newspapers for news of the family but I still keep on looking! Janet
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Hi Janet,
Re the 1899 death for a Janet Summers on the NSW BDM online.
The information on the index shows that particular person’s father’s given name as unknown Campbell and that the death occurred at North Sydney and was registered at the NSW BDM offices for the St Leonards district. (#10845)
The information on a d.c. is only as reliable as the informant’s on knowledge, and it has not been checked by the NSW BDM for its accuracy. The index could be for someone else other than your George Summer’s mother. A transcript of that d.c. would provide you with the details for the informant, and it would also provide you with that particular Janet Summers then age, any marriage/s, the names and ages of any children of those marriages, her usual residence, cause of death, and the burial details ... funeral director, clergy, cemetery etc.
Perhaps the most significant piece of information if that would be for your George’s mother, would be the number of years in the colonies, as often it shows how many years in each separate colony.
Re Immigration to the Antipodes
Do you have any evidence to suggest that George’s parents came to any of the colonies?
Have you considered if George or any of his immediate family may have come via New Zealand, or may have used the surnames Summers, Young or Henderson?
I ask because:
When I was transcribing the census information for you I noticed on the 1851 census that George’s mother’s surname was recorded as Henderson.
I also noticed that David Summers was not there, and that a 20 year old was the Master Baker with 2 employees.
To my way of thinking, as David Summers was the Baker in 1841, and then his step-son becomes the Baker in 1851 and David is not present, that may well indicate that David had died rather than immigrated. The Scottish census was taken 30/31 March 1851.
If David and Janet came to Australia, perhaps David came before her, and then sent for her, perhaps the marriage failed and David and George came to the colonies. Perhaps Janet remained in Scotland and reverted to Henderson, which would be her maiden surname.
So perhaps there’s later Scottish census for the Janet Henderson that would be for your George’s mother. So perhaps there’s Scottish death registrations for George’s mother and father.
However, speculations are simply that. Primary Records provide the paperwork trail, and as I am not familiar with researching Scottish primary records, , I hope you make contact with the submitter mentioned on the Australian Royalty family history link I gave earlier. They seem to have quite a deal of information, perhaps they have good understanding of the various UK paperwork trails. They may even have researched information to share directly with you.
If you do decide to follow up on that NSW 1899 death registration for Janet Summers, may I suggest you look at ordering a transcript from an official transcription agent. These are cheaper and quicker and can arrive in your email inbox as an attachment, eg pdf file...
Cheers, JM
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Hi JM, You have given me a LOT to think about. Thanks again for the link you gave me on the Victoria reseaarch. I paid $15 and looked up deaths in Victoria for David and Janet Summers but came up with nothng. I also wonderd abt the Henderson in the 1851 census but just thought they may have asked her for her maiden name. In the 1851 census David is listed as a "lodger" with Thomas Henderson and family. I thought the Thomas could be Janet's brother (I will check) I wondered why David was a lodger there, still lists him as a "Baker -journeyman"
Still pouring over shipping lists. I have a David Summer and Mrs Summe, departing Melbourne and arriving in NSW in 1856 but no George or family. George was abt 18 at the time and could have done his own thing.
In 1862 I have a George arriving in Melbourne with birthdate shown as abt 1844 (he was born 1838) If he spent the first 10 years in Victoria he should have arrived in the 1850's. Departure Port of Dunedin, Scotland
In 1866 there is a George Summers and Mrs Summers arriving in NSW Port of Departure Brisbane!!
So, all sorts of possibilities. Your divorce theory crossed my mind as well. Thanks again for your input. Janet
I will probably land up ordering the DC's but it's pretty expensive to order cert's in the end that don't belong to one's family so I have been hoping to find some other info before I try that.
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Hi JM
Me again, no I don't have any evidence at all that George summers parents came out to Australia or anywhere else but they disappeared off the census records after 1851. I can definitely look into the possibility of a name change for janet Summers being Henderson or Young .... I would think Hensderson though unless she got married AGAIN and I guess I should check that out as well. David could have got married again too. there are so many possibilities it's frightening!
Janet
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Hi Janet
I'm not sure what you've found since you posted in this thread, so you might already know what I'm posting. I know a bit about the family through the connection of Margaret Young, George's step sister.
The Melbourne newspaper Argus of 22 September 1855 lists the marriage of Margaret Young, "only daughter of the late Alexander Young, of Bristo-street, Edinburgh" to Rev. James Nish. In a notice for the same marriage in the Bendigo Advertiser Margaret's father is stated to be a baker. This is consistent with her father being the baker Alexander Young of 55 Bristo St Edinburgh who was the first husband of the Janet at the same address. (And this Janet also being the mother of George Summers.)
An obituary of Margaret Young (Margaret Nish after her marriage), has some details of the family history (Bendigo Advertiser 11 January 1915 "Death of Mrs Nish"). In it says: Margaret "was born in Edinburgh on 19th December, 1831, and arrived in Melbourne with her mother (Mrs. Young) and her four brothers on 8th November 1854. They came to Bendigo shortly afterwards, and her eldest brother (Mr. John Young) became well known as the proprietor of a crushing machine at Kangaroo Flat."
These four brothers seem likely to to be the brothers listed in the 1941 census record for "55 Bisto St" Edinburgh: George Summers, John Young, Alexander Young and James Young.
There is no mention of David Summers coming out to Australia in the obituary.
Margaret had a daughter Janet Henderson Nish who married in 1883. I presume the names 'Janet' and 'Henderson' were chosen because of Margaret's mother's given name and maiden name.
I have some family photographs taken in Scotland that probably belonged to Margaret Young or her mother but they are not labelled, so its hard to work out who they are.
Matt
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Hi Matt
I am so thrilled to have received your reply! Thank you so much. I have searched and searched the shipping records and haven't been able to find when Janet and her family immigrated to Australia. Do you know what ship they were on? I also wasn't sure if she would be listed as "YOung" or "Summers" I found it strange that she was buried as 'Young". I went to Bendigo last year and saw the grave and also saw Nish Street. David Summers died in Scotland in 1856 so he and Janet must have separated or divorced. That explains her using the name of "Young". How are you related to Margaret Young? I would love to see the photo's but how can that be managed?
Thanks again for contacting me, I am really so pleased about it.
Kind regards Janet Lee
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Hi Matt
I have managed to go back to 1730 with the Summers family in Scotland. David was born in 1812 and died of TB at the Errol Station in 1856. His mother died when he was 2 years old and his father married again to Margaret Lindsay in 1818. I think he was on his way to visit or was staying with members of the Lindsay family and Summers family at Errol Station when he died. See 1841 and 1861 census. Do you know who John Young married and James Young? I think Alexander Young married Kate Wallace. I have the Wills of the Rev Nish and Margaret Nish. I wish I could find George Summers in Victoria. According to his death cert he lived in Victoria for ten years when he arrived in Australia. George Summers married Elizabeth Peisley in Orange. Her father, John Peter Peisley, was the first Mayor of Orange in 1861. Regards Janet
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Hi Janet
Thanks for responding and sharing your research. Like you I've tried without success to find out what ship they were on when they emigrated. Margaret Young is my great-great grandmother. Sorry, I don't know who John Young and James Young married, but I'm looking.
I scanned nine of the photos today. These ones were taken in Australia, mainly in Bendigo and Melbourne, but also one in Sydney. I'd be happy to send you a copy but not sure how this is best done (I'm new to Rootschat) . None of the photos I've scanned have names or dates but the place is usually given with the photographic studio information printed on the back.
Matt
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Hi Matt
That is so great to know that Margaret is your g g grandmother. I also get quite confused with Rootschat, don't know what's going on half the time.
I spent the whole day trying to find the ship that Margaret would have come on. I think I found the death of James in 1877. Said he was the "brother of John". Saw it in the Trove newspapers. I think David Summers and Janet must already have separated by the 1851 census as she is living only with her children and her name in the census is her maiden name of Henderson.
regards Janet
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Hi Janet
Thanks for the update. I'll send you the photos.
By the way, it might be worth you editing your last post so that your email address is not in plain view. (Because some people 'harvest' email addresses from public web pages to use for spam). To edit your message click the 'modify' button for that post when you are already logged in.
Matt
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Thanks for the tip. I didn't like to do that but I didn't know another way to get in touch with you. It's not my normal email address so I will be in touch. I am looking forward to seeing the photo's.
Regards
Janet