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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: mandalan on Wednesday 27 July 11 18:45 BST (UK)
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Hello this is my first time on RootsChat so i hope i am doing this right!
I am trying to find out about a Marha Bramwell who i think is my great grandmother.She was born in 1856/57 in Bolton,she married Anthony Jordan ...dont know when ,by 1901 they were living in Croyden.
I am mainly interested in any info about her and her family before she married.
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Hello Mandalan & Welcome to Rootschat :D
First..the marriage
April-June 1876 in the Bolton registration district (8c 499)
Found this on www.freebmd.org.uk
Dazey
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Here they are in 1891 in West Croydon:
RG12; Piece: 592; Folio 88; Page 26
3 Burdett Road
Anthony Jordan, 35, Master Tailor, b. Bury Lancashire
Martha, 35, b. Bolton
Sons Thomas (13) and James A (11) both b. Bolton
William (8) b. Sherborne, Dorset
John (5) b. Croydon
Annie C (2) b. Croydon
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Hello :)
1871 RG10; Piece: 3934; Folio: 120; Page: 26
Martha Bramwell visitor 16 ys Doubler in Cotton Mill b Bolton
James Bramwell boarder 14 ys Cotton Piercer b Bolton
visiting a Moran family in Bolton
regards
heywood :)
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I'm sorry that this isn't helping with your request for help with finding Martha & her family prior to her marriage in 1876, but just came across this which might be of interest (on the Lancashire OnLine Parish Clerks Website) will keep looking for pre-1876:
Marriage 1 Jan 1902 at St Peter, Halliwell, Lancashire
Thomas Jordan, 24, Merchant Tailor, bachelor, of 94 St James's Rd, Croydon
married
Annie Waterhouse, 28, spinster, of 195 Valletts Lane
Groom's Father: Anthony Jordan, Merchant Tailor
Bride's Father: Jonathan Waterhouse, Engineer
Witness: James Arthur Jordan, Ethel Bottomley
Married by Banns by Percy Stott, Vicar
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I'm not sure about this either but it's the best I can see for now:
1861 RG9; Piece: 2827; Folio: 90; Page: 44
33 Shaw Street Bolton
Mary Bromiley head married 46 yrs Washerwoman b Ireland
Martha 5yrs b Bolton
James 4 yrs b Bolton
??? :-\
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Possible -
Marriage March 1855 Bolton 8c pg 266
Ralph Bramwell and Mary O'Conner
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Think you might be right Heywood...an online family tree has James & Martha's parents as Ralph Bramwell & Mary O'Conner (married 1855 in Bolton). It has James marrying a Rebecca Yates (this would be in Bolton in 1887). It says that Ralph was married before (to a lady called Rachael) and he had 4 children with her (1833-1840) She died in 1852.
Can't be certain how accurate this is. But it says that Ralph was born 1806/07 in Tideswell, Derbyshire and died in 1868 in Bolton
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Ah-ha...this looks interesting..
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,260634.0.html
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Ralph was a widower when he married Rachel.
Lancashire opc has this marriage:
21 Feb 1848 St Peter's, Bolton
Ralph Bramwell Weaver Widower of Great Bolton
Rachel Balshaw Spinster of Great Bolton
Father: James Balshaw, Weaver
Witnesses are John McConnel; James Liptrot
Says there is a note that 'iilegitimate' is written instead of father for Ralph.
There is a death for him in 1868 but I can't see him in 1861.
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Mandalan,
It looks as though you will have to buy the birth certificate to confirm Martha's parents but these do look quite likely.
There is a death for a Mary Bramwell 48 yrs in 1869.
regards
heywood
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Ralph was a widower when he married Rachel.
Lancashire opc has this marriage:
21 Feb 1848 St Peter's, Bolton
Ralph Bramwell Weaver Widower of Great Bolton
Rachel Balshaw Spinster of Great Bolton
Father: James Balshaw, Weaver
Witnesses are John McConnel; James Liptrot
Says there is a note that 'iilegitimate' is written instead of father for Ralph.
There is a death for him in 1868 but I can't see him in 1861.
Hi I think Ralph aged 53 Married b Bolton occ Cotton Weaver is in Salford Manchester in 1861 shown as a BRAMMALL Census Ref RG09/2919/86/28
Keyboard86
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The Morans - John and Ann who Martha and James are with- may be relatives.
Possible marriage 1867 Bolton
John Moran and Ann Connor
1851 HO107; Piece: 2211; Folio: 12; Page: 16
Mary Connor widow with children John 15 yrs, Michael 11yrs and Ann 7 yrs
all born Ireland
Ann would be their half sister
Keyboard - Ralph is indexed as Brimmall,33 yrs born Bolton here - and the page won't show either. ::)
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wow thanks everyone!thare is lots to investigate there,I really appreciate all your reply,s. :D
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I might be able to help here a bit. Martha was also my great grandmother. She married Anthony who was a tailor in Bolton. Their oldest son was James Arthur Jordan born about 1880 who was my grandfather - died 1965. I understood from my father there was Irish heritage. I have a photo of Martha, Anthony and all thier children. If you want a copy please email me and let me know.
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Hi Mandalan. Martha was also my Great Grandmother. Her son James Arthur Jordan was my grandfather. My father was James Terrence Jordan. I have a photo of the whole family in the 1890's. If you you want a copy let me know.
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Hi B illjo1,wow how exciting!a photo would be amazing,my grandfather died in 1961 and i dont remember him at all,and my father died in 1991 so there has,nt been anyone left to ask questions about our family.
I have been fascinated about the name Bramwell because it was in my grandfathers name,i have a cousin called Bramwell and my youngest son also has it in his name. We were under the impression that that the family had come over from Ireland when my grandfather was a boy but it turns out it was infact 2 generations behind !
my email address is (*)
many thanks for your reply I am looking foreward to hearing from you .
mandalan.
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Nice spot Dazey,
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,260634.0.html
I posted that a few years ago.
Ralph Bramwell is my great great great grandfather, Yes he was married three times first wife Martha Oldfield, second wife Rachael Balshaw, third wife Mary O'Connor. He was also illegitamate as was his sister Mary this has been confirmed on the Parish Records for Tideswell.
I will be able to give Mandalan and Billjo1 all the information I have in my tree about the Bramwell's (My maiden surname) which is alot lol.
Regards
Lyne
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Hi Lyne
I would love to see the info you have on the Bramwells,Ralph was my great grandfather and Martha was my G grandmother,and Anthony Bramwell who was born in 1897 was my grandfather.
Bramwell has been a christian name in my family since him and my youngest son has it in his name too,and I have always wondered where it came from,we had been told that it had irish origins,but it sounds as if that is,nt right.
many thanks Mandy .
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Hi Mandy,
I have quite a bit of information on the Bramwells, I always assumed that the Bramwells originated from Bolton because that is where my grandfather was born, however the more I delved into the family history I found out that Ralph was born in Tideswell, Derbyshire.
Tideswell seems to be the epicentre for the Bramwells and there are several different lines of Bramwells that come from Tideswell, as of yet myself and other distant relatives who I am in contact with have not found a connection with our line of Bramwells and the other lines.
I have your G grandmother Martha's brother James in my tree and his children and there is a picture of him and his wife somewhere that I will have to look for. Wierdest thing for me was that looking at the photo of James I could see a good likeness of my grandfather.
Maybe the irish orgins come from Ralphs third wife Mary O'Connor, I dont know in all honesty as the line I am descended from is Ralph and his first wife Martha Oldfield. But at the end of the day we are all descended from Ralph, so I suppose we are very distant cousins not sure how many times removed lol.
However I do know that in Scotland some peoples middle names are surnames of grandparents, so maybe there is a scottish connection in the family somewhere.
I will have to get all my information sorted out for you and Bill and then send it to both of you.
Regards
Lyne
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Hi Lyne,
many thanks for your reply.
I think my line comes from Ralph and his second wife Racheal Balshaw,they had Martha and James,as far as I can work out the irish connection is through Marthas husband Anthony, and it seems that Martha wanted to keep the name Bramwell somewhere in the family so gave it to my grandfather Anthony Bramwell.
Its been a real revalation to find out that we started out in the north (well its the north to me !)as my grandfather was born in Croyden and my father was born in Dover and i was born in Dorset!ane we had always thought that one generation before that were from ireland,thats athe problem with the chinese whispers of family stories!
I would love to see the photo if you get the chance
best regards Mandy .
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Hi Lyne, yes I am on face book as Amanda wells,it would be great to hook up on there.what name do you use?I will look for you .
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Hi Mandy,
As far as I know Ralph didnt have any children with Racheal Balshaw, Mary O'Connor is the mother of Martha and James.
Racheal died in 1852, Ralph married Mary in 1855, which I think is the year Martha was born and James was born in 1857
Lol there must be something about the name Anthony in the family.
Well at least our family is well traveled.
Regards
Lyne
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Hi Lyne,thanks for the info about Marthas mother,my friend started the research for me a few weeks ago and i think he must have made a mistake along the way.I must admit the amount of info is incredible and it is going to take me a while to sort through it all !
I have a Thomas Jordan as the father of Anthony,he was born in 1827 and married to Mary Carraher,but i dont think that is right,so I will have to sift through all the info I have and try and make sense of it!
best wishes Mandy
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Hi Mandy,
There are some family tree's on some sites which are to do with our line of the Bramwell family, however a couple of them do have some mistakes in. Like saying Racheal Balshaw was Martha and James mother, your friend didnt make the mistake he probably saw the incorrect information in more than one family tree and presumed it was correct.
There is more information to come a heck of a lot more.
Regards
Lyne