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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: edalmun on Wednesday 27 July 11 16:27 BST (UK)
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Hello,
I could really do with some help deciphering this will. All of it is difficult but there is a part I really need to decipher. It's the part about the children of his son John Humphrey Munt. If anyone could tell me what it says asap I would be very very grateful! The will was proven in 1849 in London.
Thank you ever so much,
Elissa
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And if any of my late sons John Humphrey munt´s orphan children may make it****** to attend my funeral let them be provided with a bit of grape and a pair of warm gloves each and i should wish that my funeral expenses should not exceed the sum of *** or *** pounds as *** or ***and i further request that there may be no munts in attendance at my funeral and i so hereby nomínate ***** and hereby appoint Mr William ***** of 30***** street street cheapside in the city of London
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Hi Elissa
Something like...
as follows first a good plain ... coffin pitched within and the shoulder saw cut(?) also and...black cloth to hide the defects in the wood...let me be buried. And further request that there may be only six to follow me, that is my son and my 3 daughters and my 2 executors with ... hatbands and gloves. And if any of my late son John Humphrey Munt's orphan children can make it ... to attend my funeral let them be provided with a bit of crape and a pair of warm gloves each. And I should wish that my funeral expenses should not exceed the sum of 6 or 7 pounds as near as possible. And I further request that there may be no ... in attendance at my funeral. And I do hereby nominate, constitute and appoint Mr William S... of 30 Wood Street, Cheapside in the City of London, Gentleman ....
Dazey
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Thank you so much both of you, that is very helpful. Would you mind if I put a bit more up, it was the bit about the children I really needed to understand, but I'd like to know what he did with the rest of his posessions.
Thanks again,
Elissa
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Here's an extract from the start. Don't think i'm asking you to do it all, I really appreciate what you've already done.
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I think in the first extract it says "...no mutes in attendance at my funeral".
Linda
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I was considering mutes, but thought it a very strange thing to say!
Edit: I have since look-up what a mute at a funeral is and apparently it's someone who leads the prosession so that makes sense.
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Mutes were very common at Victorian funerals, I think. They were employees of undertakers, and would attend the funeral, wearing black and looking sad. Professional mourners, in other words. Sounds weird now, but not so then!
Linda
Edit: Sorry, just seen your edit! ;D
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Line 1: Elme Coffin
Line 2: Brass Nails
Have heard it said that mutes in this context could actually be people without the power
of speech.
vv.
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Thank you for that. That would definitely fit.
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Here's my attempt at deciphering Part 2...
Peter Munt of No. 102 ... Street of the parish of Saint Katherine Coleman in the City of London...and...being of sound and disposing mind and memory do make and declare this to be my last Will and Testament in ...following that is to say I order all my just debts, funeral exppenses and charges of proving this my will be in the first place fully paid and satisfied and after payment thereof and every part thereof as soon as ... after my demise I give and bequeath to my son, Thomas Peter Munt, the sum of £10 of lawful money of the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Ireland current in England to be paid him within six months after my decease. I further bequeath to the above son, Thomas Peter Munt, in addition to the above sum of £10 all my wearing apparel...of clothes linen and everything I used for my own bodily ware and no more and I further desire and request that the above Thomas Peter Munt shall not have the least command or jurisdiction over either one or the other of his sisters or executors. I give and bequeath to my 3 daughters namely Mary Ann...Galatin (?) widow, Elizabeth Priscilla Munt spinster and Sarah Ann Munt spinster, the whole of my goods and chattels and all my remaining ... such as household furniture beds blankets bolsters pillows sheets and furniture, all table linen... also all pictures, silver plate, watches, jewelery, books and everything of my property that may not have been mentioned in this my will. I likewise give to my 3 daughters all the remainder of my funded(?) property in the 3...Couts..in the Bank of England now standing in the ...of...in the County of Middlesex.........
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1st image Line 8 and 2nd image line 3: conveanant, appears to be his spelling
of convenient.
vv.
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Thank you ever so much, that's wonderful! I can't thank you enough for your help and time, I really appreciate it. It continues in the following two extracts, before joining up with the first part I posted. I'm going out for a couple of hours now so wont be able to reply - so don't think I'm ignoring you!
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I think his address (in the first line of part 2) might be 102 Fenchurch Street??
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Further to dazey's transcript of the second part.
agreed Fenchurch Street
of London Dyer & Edit Dyer & Scowerer
Testament In Manner
remaining residue
table linen etc. etc.
in the 3 Pr Cents Consols
vv.
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He was living on Fenchurch street in 1841 so I'm sure that's right. The others loom correct. Thank you ever so much for your help. :)
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The whole will:
In the Name of God Amen
I Peter Munt of No 102 Fenchurch Street I the Parish of
Saint Katherine Coleman in the City of London Dyer & Scowerer
Being of sound and disposing mind and memory do make and
Declare this to be my last Will and Testament In Manner follow
ing That is to say I order all my just debts funeral expenses and
charges of proving this my Will be in the first place fully paid and
satisfied And after payment thereof and every part thereof as soon
as coveanant after my deceised I give and bequeath to my son
Thomas Peter Munt the sum of ten pounds of lawfull money of
the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland Current in
England to be paid him within six Months after my decease And
I further bequeath to the abovesaid Thomas Peter Munt In addi
tion to the above sum of ten pounds all my wareing apparel Suitte
of clothes linen and every thing I used for my own bodily ware
And no more And I further desire and request that the above said
Thomas Peter Munt shall not have the least command of juris
diction over either one or the other of his sisters or executors I give
and bequeath to my three daughters namely Mary Ann
Galatin Widow Elizabeth Priscilla Munt Spinster And Sarah Ann
Munt Spinster The whole of my goods and chattles And all my
remaining residue such as household furniture beds blankets all
bolsters pillows sheets bed furniture all table linen &c &c Also all
pitures silver plate watches jewelry books And every thing
of my property that may not have been mentioned in this my
Will I likewise give to my three daughters all the remainder of
my funded property In the 3 Pr Cents Consols In the Bank of
England now standing in the Name of Naomi Saker of Hackney
in the County of Middlesex deceised And I stand as executor of the
above dececeised which by her Will is left to me Peter Munt And
[next page]
If there should be any funded property left in the Bank of England
Either in the name of Naomi Saker deceised of in my own name
Let it be sold out And all my outstanding debts to be collected In
After my deceised And after paying my funeral expences And all
My just debts and proving this my last Will and Testament And
all other reasonable expences being paid and satisfied And it there
should be any money left after all expences is paid to be equally de
vided between my three daughters And I do solemly request that af
ter the above legacy &c is paid To my son Thomas Peter Munt And
that whatsoever or weresoever any of my property may be after my
deceased To be valued and to be equally divided as near as possible
between by aforesaid three daughters And to be done to the best
advantage according to the abdise and opinion of my executors
And I do further request that my funeral may be very plain and
?secret? as follows First a good plain Elme Coffin well Pitched within
And the Shoulder Saw Cut also and Black Nails Not any Black
Cloth to hide the defects in the wood And where it should please God
I would si? let me be buried And I further request that there may
be only six to follow me that is my sone and my three daughters
and my two executors with thee hatbands and Gloves And if any
of my late son John Humphrey Munts Orphan children can
make it conveanant to attend my funeral Let them be provided
with a bit of Crape and a pair of warm Gloves each And I should
wish that my funeral expenses should not exceed the sum of six or
seven pounds as near as possible And I further request that there
may be no mutes in attendance at my funeral And I do hereby
nominate constitute and appoint Mr William Stearman of No
30 Wood Street Street Cheapside in the City of London Gentleman
And Mr John Naper of No 50 King Street Camden Town in the
County of Middlesex Gentleman Executors of this my last Will
Hereby revoking and making void all former and other wills by
me at any time heretofore made And I declare this only yo be my
Will and Testament In witness wereof I the said Testator have to
this my last Will and Testament set my hand and seal this twenty
sixth day of February in the year of our Lord one thousand eight
hundred and forty nine – Peter Munt - ? – Signed sealed
published and declared by the said Peter Munt as and for his last
Will and Testament In the presence of us who at his request and
in his presence have subscribed our names as witnesses thereto
Jno W Wishwood No 11 Solesbury Lane – Charles Kernuell
Mempson No 10 Salisbury Lane ?Bermondsey? Witnesses
Proved at London 7th May 1849 before the Worshipful ??
?? Thomas Pratt Doctor of Law and Surrogate by the Oath of
William Stearman one of the executors to whom Admon was gran
ted having been first sworn duly to administer power reserved of
making the like grant to John Naper the other executor when
he shall apply for the grant.
[As usual names are the biggest problem - Saker and Naper and the witness surnames are certainly 'best guesses'. I hope all the mispellings are as the original - apologies for any typos I may have added]
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Just checked - Naomi Saker, will probate 12 Sep 1948 (PCC). She leaves a small bequest (among others) to Elizabeth Priscilla Munt and the residue &c to Peter Munt, her executor.
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Thank you ever so much for the whole translation, that's just what I needed. Thank you for spending your time on it, I really appreciate it.
May I ask how you were able to check who the bequests were to? Is there any further info about Naomi, where she lived or whether she was a widow etc? I'm just trying to work out whether it's possible her and Peter were related, or whether they were just friends.
Thanks again!
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May I ask how you were able to check who the bequests were to? Is there any further info about Naomi, where she lived or whether she was a widow etc? I'm just trying to work out whether it's possible her and Peter were related, or whether they were just friends.
I read the will - the advantage of a subscription to TheGenealogist.
There is no mention of any relationship to the Munts - which does not mean that there wasn't one. She does mention a brother in Manchester (surname Turner) so the most likely relationship (if any) is that Munt was her sister's husband.
Naomi lived in an almshouse in Hackney (Dr Spurstowe's Almshouses, Grove Road) see:
www.aim25.ac.uk/cgi-bin/vcdf/detail?coll_id=15755&inst_id=118&nv1=search&nv2=
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Thank you for that, that's helpful to know. I wonder why she was leaving property if she was in the almshouses.
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Thank you for that, that's helpful to know. I wonder why she was leaving property if she was in the almshouses.
Perhaps she inherited it after she became an almswoman. Or the conditions of entry to the almshouses did not exclude someone with a few decent possessions.
Almshouse records may exist - the almshouse charity is still going albeit in replacement almshouses.
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The link provided by newburychap in reply #21 shows that Naomi was likely in receipt
of a pension from the charity, supplemented by private donation, so she may not have
been entirely penniless. Perhaps she was able to save enough for some small bequests.
It sounds like a much more comfortable regime than that prevailing in workhouses.
vv.
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It sounds like a much more comfortable regime than that prevailing in workhouses.
Almshouse charities often gave a weekly stipend to the inhabitants, plus extras such as a winter fuel allowance or clothing of some sort - such as a winter coat every few years.
Some charities would also impose as a qualifying criterium that the candidate must never have been in receipt of parish poor relief. In essence they were retirement homes for those who had contributed to the community over their lives whose age meant they could no longer support themselves. A single almshouse place would often attract dozens of applicants.
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Hi here's my shot at the second bit.
I Peter Hunt of no 102 ----- street of the parish of saint -----coleman in the city of london being of sound and disposing mind and memory do make and declare this to be my last will and testament.In---following that is to say I order all my just debts, funeral expenses ---- of prooving this my will be in the first place fully paidand satisfied.And after payment------and every part thereofas now as-------after my demise.I give and bequeath to my son Thomas Peter Munt?the sum of ten pounds of lawfull money of the United Kingdom and Ireland current in England to be paid him within 6 months after my demise.And i further bequeath to the aforesaid Thomas Peter a sum in addition to the above sum of ten pounds all my waring apparel such of clothes linen and everything i used for my own bodily want and no more.And i further desire and request that the above son Thomas Peter munt shall not have the sole command or jurisdiction over either one or the other of his sisters or-----.I --- and bequeath to my three daughters namelyMary Ann-- ---Ga-abin widow Elizabeth Priscilla Munt spinster and Sarah Ann Munt spinster the whole of my goods and chattels and all my remaining---- such as household furniture Bibs Blankets Bolsters Pillows Sheets Bed furniture all table with----,also Pictures Silver plate Watches Jewellry Boots AND EVERTHING of my property that may not have been mentioned in this my ---will-- and likewise give to my three daughters all the remainder of my --- property in the 3 ------ consols in the bank of England were ----- in the name of Oram?I----- of -----in the county of Middlesex------ised this--- hand as executor of his
Hope this helps very interesting Sue
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Thank you Sue, I really appreciate your time and help. It is interesting, I find the part about the brother Thomas not having jurisdiction over his sisters particularly intruiging. I wonder if that was normal pratice?