RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Raylen on Wednesday 27 July 11 13:27 BST (UK)
-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,545937.0.html
On a previous thread Debra found me this death entry.
Harriet MUNRO
Age: 40
Father: Richard CROSS
Mother: Ann Unknown
Reg Year: 1858
Reg Number: 6695
Birth Place: DODB
Has anyone got any ideas what the birth place is or what
it might mean please?
Raylen
-
Thats got me stumped Raylen - look on some acronymn abbreviation sites - nothing @ all remotely like a place name ?????????????
Troods
-
I take it that this is a transcription of some sort? Is there any chance of seeing the original document that gives the birth place?
It looks like a mistranscription of some sort ... Dodd? :-\
You'd really need to see the original writing to know for sure. I'd like to know it was written in all capitals or it has just been transcribed that way (as the surname has).
-
It's a bit like initials of DOD/B = Date of Death/Burial
If the original was written : "Dodb"
Could it be Doole, which is an Island in Western Australia.
or, what about Dalby in Queensland.
I've found a list of modern areas in Australia but nothing seems to fit. Down the lefthand side of the page is a list of the states to click on and then choose a letter of the alphabet at the top of each state page to click on :
http://www.postcodes-australia.com/areas/wa/index/d
-
Hi Raylen,
This DODB is from the Index and is a transcription of what is on the Certificate.
You would have to get the certificate to see what the Birthplace really is. There is no other DODB given as a birthplace on the Index from 1838 -1888 and I am not familiar with this being an abbreviation for anywhere in Victoria ;)
Regards
Alison
-
I don't think it can be a Victorian name as she died in 1858 aged 40, so birth about 1818 and Victoria wasn't founded then. I'd guess it would be somewhere overseas rather then NSW or Tasmania. Any clues as to where the Munro's came from - Scotland?
Mo
-
Hi
Searching online trees, someone has Harriet Cross, parents Richard and Ann, born 1818 Sudbrooke England, the death record could be a mistake. They have her death as 3/8/1858 but no place given. There is a daughter born 1841, no place of birth or death for her either. I would look for her in England to see if that checks out.
mum mum
-
Hi there,
If Harriet (Harriett/Harriott etc) was born in New South Wales in c 1818 then perhaps she was baptised and if so then perhaps that baptism is indexed in the NSW BDM online index.... NSW at that time covered far more territory than the current boundaries of the state of NSW..... the Governor's commission included for example New Zealand.
As to where is/was DODB .... Sorry Raylen, I do not recognise this, I have gone through several of my NSW reference books for the Penal colony, and looked at several other offline resources as well.
My fingers are crossed that the answer is staring me in the face and that I cannot see the wood for the trees and that a RChatter will spot this thread and say "Oh DODB .... yes well that's ............" and we all will say "Of course, 'plain as day' why didn't I think of that"
Cheers, JM
-
Hi Raylen,
The tree that mum mum refers to also has Harriett's daughter listed as ......Mary Jane CROSS married William BUNTING b 1834 d 1865.
Their daughter Mary Ann BUNTING b 4.3.1858 married James Alexander HIGGINS in 1890 and died 1933
They had a daughter :
Ailee Hannah Catherine b 1903 Brighton married George Alexander RALPH in 1926 and died in Coburg in 1967.
According to the tree there are 2 living sons and a living daughter of this marriage.
regards
Alison
-
Hi,
A Harriett Cross arrived on the John Bull at Port Phillip in 1840.
http://210.8.122.120/indexes/index_search_results.asp
I cant find a mariage or births in Victoria though.
mum mum
-
Hi
Searching online trees, someone has Harriet Cross, parents Richard and Ann, born 1818 Sudbrooke England, ........
mum mum
Could there be a clue ! Sudbrooke could be abbreviated .... SUDB .... In 1858 it was all handwritten.... The older style capitalised "S" could be mis-read by later generations of transcribers as a "D" and of course then the "U" and the older style "O" which did not close at the top and you have DODB .... Of course, this is speculations on speculations...
Cheers, JM
-
HI,
Just reading your other post avout Mary Jane, given that the online tree mentions Mary Jane b 1841 being the daughter of Harriett Cross I would say they are the same people.
I would be forking out the money for a couple of certificates to sort this mess out.
Also spending a bit of time searching English records for birth for Mary Jane and marriage for Harriett.
mum mum
-
:o Thank you all so much for your great suggestions.
mum mum - Thanks for finding that tree online. I'll certainly follow through
on the Sudbrooke area mentioned. I like JM's line of thinking
regarding the way the older style of writing may have been
misread.
That same tree did throw up another reason why you never trust
an online tree without further research.
It give the birth dates of the parents of Harriet (b 1818)
as Richard 1845 and Ann 1852 ::)
Not that it needed to be researched to prove how wrong it was.
Thanks all once again and I'm off to look for a marriage for Harriet
and any births.
Raylen
-
;D ;D
It give the birth dates of the parents of Harriet (b 1818)
as Richard 1845 and Ann 1852 ::)
Not that it needed to be researched to prove how wrong it was.
The trouble is, there are so many public trees with so many obviously impossible relationships that is sometimes hard to stop giggling and get back to proper researchings. I often think these "tree owners" have not ever realised that their own parents were older than themselves, and that their own grandparents were even older again ...
Cheers, JM
-
Hi and I hope this might help. Your post is quiet old and you may have since solved your questions.
I have a copy of Harreitt's death certificate and it says her place of birth as Dodbrook England.
I believe Harriet is my GGGrandmother - i am working on family history and only a learner.
What I have found and read, Harriet arrived on the John Bull - she may have had 1 or 2 illegitimate children. She married Henry Munro and he raissed the children and they had more children. Harriett died when she was 40 (after childbirth) - I am not sure but I believe her children or some of them were raised by Henry's brother John and wife Mary. I am still researching.
-
Dodbrooke in England seems to be a suburb of Kingsbridge in Devon, roughly between Plymouth and Dartmouth.
FindMyPast shows this baptism at Dodbrooke
Harriet CROSS, dau of John (labourer) and Celia? Caelia?,
Born 09 Jul 1817, baptised: 25 Jun 1818
Baptism place Parish church, Dodbrooke, Residence Dodbrooke
Baptisms for siblings, same parents same church
Charlotte, aged 2 years, baptised 20 Dec 1815
Mary - baptised 20 Dec 1815, no birthdate given
Richard - b 31 October 1820, baptised 15 November 1820
Jane - b 23 Jan 1823, baptised 19 Feb, 1823. Mother's name is more legible here - Celia
There may be others but I can't tie them in definitely.
Judith
-
The passenger list for the John Bull, arr Port Phillip, 21 January 1840, with bounty immigrants (bounty 14 pounds) imported by Mr John Marshall, shows:
Harriet CROSS, 22, house servant, from Kingsbridge, Protestant, can read and write,
There are 2 other women from Kingsbridge on the same ship
Tyrrenia MILLER, 27, housemaid,
Martha TICKELL, 22, dressmaker
Judith
-
Yes thanks for that. On her death certificate her parents are named as Richard and Ann Cross. I have also read information on Find a grave
https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Munro&GSfn=Harriett&GSby=1818&GSbyrel=in&GSdy=1858&GSdyrel=in&GScntry=15&GSob=n&GRid=159882557&df=all&
this shows parents as John and Cecila Cross
I am very confused and feel I have gone wrong somewhere.
Very tricky one is Harriett Cross???
-
I don't think you have gone wrong at all. The person who was the informant for Harriet's death probably did not know her mother. Death certificates often have wrong information.
The record I looked at is an image of the church register and her mother's name is definitely shown as "Celia".
FreeBMD has a death in the March quarter, 1840 for a
Cecilia CROSS, registered at Kingsbridge, Vol 9, p 239.
The church records show Cecilia CROSS, 57, buried Dodsbrooke, 5 January 1840
There is a record (also Dodsbrooke church) of this marriage
John CROSS, sojourner, and Coelia SMITH, spinster, both resident Dodsbrooke,
Marriage date 17 Jun 1806
John signs his name, Celia marks a cross
Witnesses: Simon SMITH, William SINKINS, Elizabeth THORNING
Another sibling for Harriet
John, baptised 17 Nov 1808
(Elizabeth THORNING's baby is baptised earlier that year)
Judith
-
You may be interested in another current thread focusing on Mary Jane CROSS, dau of Harriet.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=545937.0
And another 2 siblings for Harriet:
William, baptised 16 Aug 1811, at Dodbrooke
Sarah, b 2 May 1825, baptised 10 May at Dodbrooke. John's occupation here is given as 'husbandman'
Just putting the children as found so far of Richard and Celia/Cecilia CROSS in order:
John, 1808
William 1811
Charlotte, aged 2 years, baptised 20 Dec 1815, thus b abt 1813
Mary - baptised 20 Dec 1815, no birthdate given
Harriet, 1818
Richard - b 31 October 1820, baptised 15 November 1820
Jane - b 23 Jan 1823, baptised 19 Feb, 1823.
Sarah - 1825
Possible baptism for Harriet's mother; the date ties in with the age given for the burial above.
Celia SMITH, baptised 26 May 1783 at Dodbrooke
Parents: Simon, Agness
Judith
-
Thank you again for this - certainly gives me more info to go with
I will follow through and yes more family members for Harriett