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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: pirhana on Tuesday 26 July 11 20:32 BST (UK)

Title: Liverpool's Horse-drawn Tramways 1880-1890
Post by: pirhana on Tuesday 26 July 11 20:32 BST (UK)
Off Whitefield Road, Liverpool is a very small street called Franklin Place. There is or recently was a disused pub called the Peel next to it . Even today Franklin Place  is still cobbled and has a very small stretch of tram track set in it. This is because in the late C19th it was the entrance to one of the stables of the Liverpool Tramway Company when the trams were still horse drawn. My great-grandfather was living in Franklin Place at the time of the 1881 and 1891 censuses. He worked as a blacksmith , but there were other people living in Franklin Place some of whom also worked for the tram company. I'd be interested to hear from anyone whose ancestors also worked for the tram company particularly when the trams were still pulled by horses or who lived or worked in the area of Whitefield Road or Franklin Place at the end of the C19th. I believe that the Peel pub was built in the Victorian period.
Title: Re: Liverpool's Horse-drawn Tramways 1880-1890
Post by: ScouseBoy on Tuesday 26 July 11 20:49 BST (UK)
I have a birth certificate  in front of me now  for a birth date of 8th december 1881.  The father is James Hughes, Occupation Bus Driver.  Place of birth and home  16 Every Street, West Derby.

I have reason to believe that Liverpool City Council still had Horse drawn Bin Lorries in the 1850s,  not on tramways but just thought that you would be interested.
Title: Re: Liverpool's Horse-drawn Tramways 1880-1890
Post by: ScouseBoy on Tuesday 26 July 11 21:24 BST (UK)
pirhana,  can you please give me an idea which district Franklin Place is in please?

One of the Merseyside museums  may have photos or even  a carriage   from the horse drawn tramways.
Title: Re: Liverpool's Horse-drawn Tramways 1880-1890
Post by: andrewalston on Wednesday 27 July 11 14:12 BST (UK)
Google Earch has "Franklin Pl, Liverpool" in its database. The tram tracks are visible in StreetView.
Title: Re: Liverpool's Horse-drawn Tramways 1880-1890
Post by: ainslie on Wednesday 27 July 11 15:44 BST (UK)
Franklin Place is off Whitefield Road, Breckfield?
In 1909 the pub was there, no name in the official Licensing Book, owned by Threfalls Brewery and managed for them by Ellen Keys.
A
Title: Re: Liverpool's Horse-drawn Tramways 1880-1890
Post by: pirhana on Wednesday 27 July 11 20:47 BST (UK)
Hello and thanks for replying and for information provided.
To Scouse Boy Franklin Place is a little "blip" of a street off Whitefield Road - no longer than 25 yards I'd say. If you type in the postcode L6 5DB on Google Maps you're there and as andrewalston says you can see the tram tracks on Google Street View.

Pirhana.
Title: Re: Liverpool's Horse-drawn Tramways 1880-1890
Post by: Jean McGurn on Wednesday 21 September 11 18:25 BST (UK)
My g grandmothers uncle Edward Owens was Traffic Manager of Liverpool Tramways until he died in Aug 1897 aged 64 yrs.

I have been trying to find out when he was appointed and so far have been unsuccessful.

Jean
Title: Re: Liverpool's Horse-drawn Tramways 1880-1890
Post by: hanes teulu on Wednesday 21 September 11 19:57 BST (UK)
The Liverpool Mercury, May 27, 1875 is reporting a court case and under the Title ""The Rival 'Bus Companies Again" it refers to Edward Owens, outdoor suprintendant of the Liverpool Omnibus & Tramway Company....

Have sent a PM

regards
Title: Re: Liverpool's Horse-drawn Tramways 1880-1890
Post by: Jean McGurn on Thursday 22 September 11 18:18 BST (UK)
Looks like he rose in the Tramways company quite quickly.

In the 1871 census he says he is a Merchants Clerk and in the 1881 census he has put down that he's a General Clerk then finally in 1891 he puts down Tramway Superintendant.

When he died in 1897 he had risen to Traffic manager.

Jean
Title: Re: Liverpool's Horse-drawn Tramways 1880-1890
Post by: pirhana on Friday 23 September 11 14:46 BST (UK)
Thank you very much for all the replies posted during the last few days. Very interesting! Although in my original post I stated that my great-grandfather was living in Franklin Place at the time of both the 1881 and 1891 censuses and is described as a blacksmith one of the Gore's street directories for the 1880s describes him as a coachbuilder so I feel that he may have also had some responsibility for the repair/ maintenance of the tram carriages themselves.
Title: Re: Liverpool's Horse-drawn Tramways 1880-1890
Post by: Jean McGurn on Friday 23 September 11 17:06 BST (UK)

It is most likely that your g.grandfather was one of many who were not only blacksmiths and coachbuilders but also probably was also a wheelwright.

Until the metal lines were put down for the electrification of the trams all horse drawn trams would have needed repairs.

Incidently Whitefield Road is where my g.grandparents lived. G.grandfather was a wheelwright/coachbuilder and his wife was the niece of Edward Owens who worked for the Tramway company. I wonder if they knew each other?  :)

Jean
Title: Re: Liverpool's Horse-drawn Tramways 1880-1890
Post by: novac on Friday 28 October 11 20:53 BST (UK)
My Grandfather John Edward Murphy is on the 1901 and 1911 censuses, he was a tram driver with Liverpool Corporation, he lived in Kerr Street off Breckfield Road South up until WW1 when he enlisted in the Kings Regiment.  His father Patrick Murphy lived in Celt Street/Whitford Street off Whitefield Road in the late 1800s he was also a tram driver until he died  in 1902. Patrick is on earlier censuses where his job was described as a coachman, I understand he drove a horse drawn tram.  I have been trying for some time to find their records  but without success. I'd be grateful if you could help or at least point me in the right direction.