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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: dono on Tuesday 26 July 11 14:51 BST (UK)

Title: looking for a person
Post by: dono on Tuesday 26 July 11 14:51 BST (UK)
im new here so please bear with me as i dont know what i am doing   :)  I am looking for agnes Donovan d.o.b abt 1888. she was born in blackburn lancs  then moved to little bolton lancs, shes in the 1891 census, rg no: rg12  Piece: 3113 . her parents are augustine and catherine Donovan. I have searched and just cant find her.. if anyone can please help me then i would be most grateful. thank you everyone..
Title: Re: looking for a person
Post by: Ruskie on Tuesday 26 July 11 14:56 BST (UK)
Welcome to rootschat dono.

You say you have found Agnes in the 1891 census, and you know her parent's names. But you also say you can't find her ...  :-\

What exactly do you want to find out about Agnes? Are you looking for her in all the censuses? Her birth? Marriage? Death ... or anything else?  :)
Title: Re: looking for a person
Post by: cati on Tuesday 26 July 11 14:57 BST (UK)
This looks like Agnes:
Births Sep 1887  DONNOVAN  Agnes     Blackburn  8e 404

Cati
Title: Re: looking for a person
Post by: ScouseBoy on Tuesday 26 July 11 14:58 BST (UK)
Have you thought of investing a few pounds by buying a copy  of her birth certificate  and marriage cert of her parents?

Have you searched the deaths for her?  She may have died young as a child, possibly?
Title: Re: looking for a person
Post by: cati on Tuesday 26 July 11 15:00 BST (UK)
Be patient, chaps:  Agnes's surname was under DONNOVAN in the indices - this sort of thing is easily missed.

I can't find a marriage that fits for Augustine, though.

Cati
Title: Re: looking for a person
Post by: dono on Tuesday 26 July 11 15:05 BST (UK)
hi ruskie and all

thank you for all your help so far... i can not find agnes Donovan after the 1891 census, i can not find her in any other census, marriage or even death.... 
Title: Re: looking for a person
Post by: cati on Tuesday 26 July 11 15:06 BST (UK)
how old was Augustine in the 1891 census?
Title: Re: looking for a person
Post by: Ruskie on Tuesday 26 July 11 15:08 BST (UK)
He was 30 Cati. Unusual name. He was born in Dublin. Catherine was also 30, born Liverpool. Agnes is 3 and the oldest child living with them.
I can't see an obvious marriage for Augustin and Catherine. I wonder if they married in Ireland?  :-\
Title: Re: looking for a person
Post by: cati on Tuesday 26 July 11 15:09 BST (UK)
Hmm, possible then that Augustine was his first name and that he used his middle name (or vice versa) - I speak from experience as this has happened in my Irish line...

Cati
Title: Re: looking for a person
Post by: Ruskie on Tuesday 26 July 11 15:13 BST (UK)
dono, is Agnes your ancestor, or might she (as suggested by Scouseboy) have died young?
Title: Re: looking for a person
Post by: cati on Tuesday 26 July 11 15:15 BST (UK)
Dono - check this link out - someone else on this site is researching your family.

www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,536729.10.html

Cati
Title: Re: looking for a person
Post by: Ruskie on Tuesday 26 July 11 15:15 BST (UK)
This fits in age wise:

Deaths Dec 1900
 
Donovan  Augustine  
age 39  
Chorlton  
8c 522
Title: Re: looking for a person
Post by: Ruskie on Tuesday 26 July 11 15:18 BST (UK)
Well found Cati!  ;D
Title: Re: looking for a person
Post by: ScouseBoy on Tuesday 26 July 11 15:18 BST (UK)
I suggest that you ask on the Irish section  for anyone to look for the parents in Ireland.

My great grandparents came over to Lancashire from Ireland in the 1870s  bu went back to Ireland to get married there,  and then they returned to Liverpool and Lancashire.
Title: Re: looking for a person
Post by: cati on Tuesday 26 July 11 15:19 BST (UK)
Cati preens herself - amazing what you find if you Goggle!
Title: Re: looking for a person
Post by: KGarrad on Tuesday 26 July 11 15:22 BST (UK)
As per a fairly normal Irish tradition(?!?!), this is the marriage:

December qtr 1881
West Derby district    vol 8b, page 943

O'Donovan, Augustine
+ and on the same page +
Tynan, Catherine

It's that pesky little O that was causing me problems!  ;D

1901 Ireland census draws a blank ???
Title: Re: looking for a person
Post by: cati on Tuesday 26 July 11 15:25 BST (UK)
Aha! I noticed that on one of the census transcripts he was Augustine O Donovan, but didn't strike me it was O'Donovan!
Title: Re: looking for a person
Post by: ScouseBoy on Tuesday 26 July 11 15:36 BST (UK)
Aha! I noticed that on one of the census transcripts he was Augustine O Donovan, but didn't strike me it was O'Donovan!
   

O dear.                 ;D
Title: Re: looking for a person
Post by: KGarrad on Tuesday 26 July 11 15:42 BST (UK)
Has Cati stopped preening herself now?!?! ;D ;D
Title: Re: looking for a person
Post by: cati on Tuesday 26 July 11 15:46 BST (UK)
Well I still can't find them in 1901... but at least Donno now has some information to build back on and a contact searching the same family.

Cati
Title: Re: looking for a person
Post by: ScouseBoy on Tuesday 26 July 11 15:46 BST (UK)
Aha! I noticed that on one of the census transcripts he was Augustine O Donovan, but didn't strike me it was O'Donovan!

Just what happened with Barak O'Bama      He really is of Irish descent you know.
Title: Re: looking for a person
Post by: aghadowey on Tuesday 26 July 11 15:48 BST (UK)
I suggest that you ask on the Irish section  for anyone to look for the parents in Ireland.

My great grandparents came over to Lancashire from Ireland in the 1870s  bu went back to Ireland to get married there,  and then they returned to Liverpool and Lancashire.

Before trying to trace the family in Ireland you'll need to search for all possible records in England. For example, Augustine's marriage certificate should list his father's name and occupation which will help when searching for a baptismal record Since registration of births didn't start until 1864 you'll need to see if a church record for Augustine survives- not all church records survive and of those that do not all are online. Generally, to find relatives in Ireland you need to know where they lived (townland or parish) to find the appropriate church.
Title: Re: looking for a person
Post by: cati on Tuesday 26 July 11 15:48 BST (UK)
That reminds me, Scouseboy, you never did apologise for calling me catty!
Title: Re: looking for a person
Post by: ScouseBoy on Tuesday 26 July 11 15:50 BST (UK)
That reminds me, Scouseboy, you never did apologise for calling me catty!
   

If I did,  it was a  compliment because I just love Cats.
Title: Re: looking for a person
Post by: dono on Tuesday 26 July 11 16:19 BST (UK)
hi ruskie  yes she is my ancester  i cant find any traces of her at all both augustine  and catherine died 1900 i was able to find her brother in the union workhouse but nothin on agnes
Title: Re: looking for a person
Post by: janan on Tuesday 26 July 11 16:32 BST (UK)
Hi dono

Welcome to Rootschat :D

What about  this young lady in 1901? Everything fits except the first name :-\


45a Bury New Rd Bolton

Ann Donovan adopted daur 13 born Blackburn
in household headed by Richard Parkinson 30 shoemaker Lanc Farnworth

RG13/3629/162 pg8


Jan ;)
Title: Re: looking for a person
Post by: dono on Tuesday 26 July 11 16:44 BST (UK)
hi janan thankyou for that info augustine was a shoemaker as well i will look at that and will get back and let you knw but be patient with as new at this thanks sue 
Title: Re: looking for a person
Post by: aghadowey on Tuesday 26 July 11 17:27 BST (UK)
In Ireland Agnes/Nancy/Ann are interchangeable.
Title: Re: looking for a person
Post by: dono on Tuesday 26 July 11 18:48 BST (UK)
hi    i didnt know that people did that with there names shows you wot i know thanks sue
Title: Re: looking for a person
Post by: Ruskie on Tuesday 26 July 11 23:22 BST (UK)
Hi dono

Welcome to Rootschat :D

What about  this young lady in 1901? Everything fits except the first name :-\


45a Bury New Rd Bolton

Ann Donovan adopted daur 13 born Blackburn
in household headed by Richard Parkinson 30 shoemaker Lanc Farnworth

RG13/3629/162 pg8


Jan ;)

This looks promising. When looking for Agnes/Ann's marriage, if she can't be found under Donovan or variations, it might be worth checking under the surname Parkinson as well, in case this is the correct Ann/Agnes and she took her 'adopted' father's name.

Dono, if Agnes is your direct ancestor, you must know who she married, as you should be working backwards.
Title: Re: looking for a person
Post by: Ruskie on Tuesday 26 July 11 23:24 BST (UK)
both augustine  and catherine died 1900 i was able to find her brother in the union workhouse but nothin on agnes

That's rough ...  :(

Dono, did you check the other thread that Cati provided a link to? Lots of info on there, and as a bonus, it looks like you have a new cousin.  :)
Title: Re: looking for a person
Post by: Ruskie on Tuesday 26 July 11 23:32 BST (UK)
Has this already been suggested as a possible marriage?:

Marriages Jun 1909
 
BRENNAN  Michael    Blackburn  8e 1067   
DONOVAN  Agnes     Blackburn  8e 1067   
Hayhurst  Charles Ernest     Blackburn  8e 1067   
KENDAL  Mary     Blackburn  8e 1067

Dono, do you know if Agnes married either of these gents?
Title: Re: looking for a person
Post by: cati on Wednesday 27 July 11 08:34 BST (UK)
Dono, did you check the other thread that Cati provided a link to? Lots of info on there, and as a bonus, it looks like you have a new cousin.  :)

I linked this thread to that one too*, so with a bit of luck you'll both be talking soon...

Cati

* as opposed to linking that one to this - well I know what I mean - now you both know about each other's threads...
Title: Re: looking for a person
Post by: VICTORIA on Wednesday 27 July 11 09:38 BST (UK)
Hi I am the person mentioned on other thread.
Catherine Tynan married Augustine O Donavan DQ 1881 West Derby Liverpool 8b 943.
Catherine Tynan was the daughter of Michael Tynan & Catherine Kelly who married 28/09/1851 in St Anthonys Church Liverpool
The parents of Michael Tynan were Michael Tynan & Ann
Catherine Kellys` parents were Patrick Kelly & Mary.
Victoria
Title: Re: looking for a person
Post by: janan on Wednesday 27 July 11 10:53 BST (UK)
Has this already been suggested as a possible marriage?:

Marriages Jun 1909
 
BRENNAN  Michael    Blackburn  8e 1067   
DONOVAN  Agnes     Blackburn  8e 1067   
Hayhurst  Charles Ernest     Blackburn  8e 1067   
KENDAL  Mary     Blackburn  8e 1067

Dono, do you know if Agnes married either of these gents?

I was just about to post that marriage Ruskie - it does seem a likely one, hopefully Sue will be back later with more info. I did have a quick look for Agnes/Ann Brennan/Hayhurst in 1911 but couldn't see her.

Jan ;)
Title: Re: looking for a person
Post by: KGarrad on Wednesday 27 July 11 11:44 BST (UK)
Quote
I did have a quick look for Agnes/Ann Brennan/Hayhurst in 1911 but couldn't see her.

But there is!

An Agnes Hayhurst does exist - but married to Charles Arnold Hayhurst?
Title: Re: looking for a person
Post by: janan on Wednesday 27 July 11 14:15 BST (UK)
Quote
I did have a quick look for Agnes/Ann Brennan/Hayhurst in 1911 but couldn't see her.

But there is!

An Agnes Hayhurst does exist - but married to Charles Arnold Hayhurst?

Born in the right place, right time?

Jan ;)
Title: Re: looking for a person
Post by: KGarrad on Wednesday 27 July 11 14:32 BST (UK)
Oh Jan!

You know I am not allowed to reveal what's on the 1911 census!!  ;D :o ;D

Age about right - place of birth less so, but only 5 miles away.
Something to do with le moors?!?! ;D
Title: Re: looking for a person
Post by: janan on Wednesday 27 July 11 14:38 BST (UK)
Oh Jan!

You know I am not allowed to reveal what's on the 1911 census!!  ;D :o ;D

Age about right - place of birth less so, but only 5 miles away.
Something to do with le moors?!?! ;D

Yes I know that was why I was so vague  ;D ;D

Probably can't go any further anyway till Sue comes back

Jan ;)
Title: Re: looking for a person
Post by: dono on Wednesday 27 July 11 21:05 BST (UK)
hi all sorry took me so long to get back im still slow at this, this is all the info i have on my family
 augustine (o')donovan d.o.b 1861 d.o.d 1900 augustine father is micheal
wife catherine tynan d.o.b 1862 d.o.d 1900
agnes donovan d.o.b 1887
nicholas donovan d.o.b 1889 dod 1935
there were other children as well but they all died

nicholas went into the poor house in 1900

i cannot find anything on agnes  i did find the family that was stated previously ann donovan but dont know what path to go down

nicholas was my grandfather  my own father left home at 14years and  never gave any info on his family, it was a  shut door.
can anyone shed any light on this situation thanks sue
Title: Re: looking for a person
Post by: janan on Wednesday 27 July 11 22:25 BST (UK)
Hi Sue

Looking further into the Agnes Donovan who appears to have married Charles Hayhurst it looks as if she is the one  born 1890 in Clayton le Moors who appears on earlier censuses - so not your grandfather's sister. I think the Ann Donovan who I found in 1901 is highly likely to be the right one but what happened to her? As Ruskie suggested she may have taken on her adoptive father's name of Parkinson - there is a Bolton death of an Ann Parkinson in 1903 but she is 18 so a little old. Ann/Agnes may have moved away from Lancashire and as Donovan/ Parkinson married/died. She may have emigrated under either of these names. I think it may be very difficult to trace her.

Jan
Title: Re: looking for a person
Post by: dono on Wednesday 27 July 11 22:30 BST (UK)
hi janan thanks very much for your help i will keep looking  sue
Title: Re: looking for a person
Post by: janan on Wednesday 27 July 11 22:41 BST (UK)
I will also continue looking for her - have been checking passenger lists but no-one conclusive showing so far.

Will post if I do find anything

Good luck
Jan ;)
Title: Re: looking for a person
Post by: dono on Thursday 28 July 11 00:56 BST (UK)
Hi janan  thankyou very much  sue  :)