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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Waterford => Topic started by: EdCan on Monday 25 July 11 00:35 BST (UK)
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I would like to find a birth/baptism for Kate/Kathleen. Father was Michael Sargent and mother Ann Tracy. I think she was born abt 1858/59. Familysearch has the birth of 4 siblings but is missing at least 3 and maybe as many as 6. Kate gave her age as 26 when she immigrated to Australia in 1885.
There is a Michael Sargent in the 1901 census with 3 daughters.If this is the correct Michael then he would have been abt 17/18 when Kate was born assuming his age(59) is correct
Ed
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The extracted birth collection on Familysearch which shows the details of children of Michael and Ann is based on Civil records which only started in 1864. To search for earlier records you would need to check parish records.
Some of these births took place somewhere in the Cappoquin Distirct. A birth cert for one or more of these children would show a more detailed location and should help determine the correct Co. Waterford parish to search.
e.g.
Name Ellen Sargint
Birth date: 08 Oct 1870
Birthplace: Cappoquin, Waterford (Sub District)
Ref. : 817
Parent : Michael Sargint & Anne Tracy
You can use the page reference to help locate the correct references on the BMD Index
Do you know what denomination the family were ?
see :
Introduction to Irish Records (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,442233.0.html)
My Ancestor came from Ireland - where do I start? (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,498742.0.html)
Shane
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Thanks Shane
Family were Catholic
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If it turns out they were born somewhere near to the town and in the RC parish of Cappoquin, then the National Library microfilm to check is Pos. 2467. This hold baptisms from 1810 and marriages from 1807.
It would probably be a good idea to follow up on the civil birth records for at least one of the siblings to establish a townland or address. Civil records often show additional detail compared to parish records - e.g. father's occupation, place of birth and place of residence (can be useful if these are different), informant etc
Shane
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Hello , I am also looking for this Sargent group. Kate Mary came to Australia along with a sister and brother James Matthew Sargent. I acquired a certificate for the births that are civil for the older children and they are born in Castle Street, Cappoquin. BUT still cannot find anything of parents Michael and Ann Tracy. Have not found births for Kate , James (pre civil). It is a mystery . Have you advanced any further. Sargent in Cairns who married into my Andersons ( also ex Waterford) here in Australia. My cousin is direct descendant of James Matthew and we are at a loss to where they came from and went to. Also they don't seem to be related to the other Sargents in Cappoquin. We have complete history of family here in OZ but no luck yet in Waterford. Hope to hear from you and join the dots.
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I am in the same position as you - stuck. It certainly is a mystery re Michael and Ann. My connection to Charles and Kate is through the mother of Charles - Mary Jane Hobson and her mother Rosey Pickering. If interested I can provide info re this line.
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I found this on the Waterford County Library website in the death registers of the family history section. Date of death 11th March 1868, place Castle Street, name Cornelius Sargint, age, 11 months old, rank carpenters child, tabes, influenza, informant Mary Tracy, qualification present at death, district, Cappoquin. There are other Sargints, Sargents in the index of the death registers.
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Thank you for that. I saw these as well. I assume that they are Michael Sargint/Ann Tracy's children excpet that I have seen 2 Cornelius born . One to Michael/Ann and one to Ellen Tracy. I cannot get a picture from it though as I cannot find a marriage for Michael/Ann or their births/deaths and cannot make the link to the other SARGENTS in Cappoquin. I think that the spelling SARGINT as opposed to SARGENT is not a typo as it has been repeatedly used on the births in Civi registrations. The christian names are not consistent with SARGENTs in Cappoquin. Bamboozled still.
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I looked at the Waterford Library Death registers as advised. The Michael in the 1901 census was a widower and died in 1902. There is an Ann who died in 1893 who also lived in Mill St and was a carpenters wife . Anne was 10 years older than Michael . The dob for the 3 older children who came to Australia are a bit suspect as the passenger lists has the sisters marked a few years younger. (There are a couple of the other daughters still awol though).
This Michael had additional 3 daughters in the 1901 census so I looked for their births in the Civil Registers as they would be born Bridget 1876, Margaret 1878 and Helena 1880 . BUT I cannot find them. Am I doing something wrong.
if I could find them then I could at least get a birth certificate to see if they are daughters of the same Michael and Ann.
Anyone have any suggestions as why they don't seem to be in the register?
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It's not uncommon for ages to be wrong in census records.
Michael Sargent m. Anne Tracy-
Bridget (1865) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F516-H4F
Cornelius (1867) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FPYS-2DZ
Margaret (1869- twin) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FP6S-XXH
Anne (1869-twin) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FP6S-XX8
Ellen (1870) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FPY3-NRP
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Waterford/Cappoquin/Mill_Street/1757611/
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The 3 daughters that I mentioned who are on the 1901 census are different to the ones that you have provided and I had found also. These are 3 additional daughters , I think. They are 10 years older than the original set (Anne died 7 months, Cornelius 7 months, Ellen 1 month).
Older siblings James Matthew, Kate Mary and Mary (whose birth records I don't have ) came to Australia. Admiittedly I cannot find any deaths for Margaret(1869) and Bridget(1865) BUT could they both be so wrong with ages? Oddly enough they are both different to the Margaret and Bridget census by about the same 9 ish years!!!
Helena , I cannot find any Civil or familysearch record for. do you know if all records are digitised?
I am wondering what I could do next to try and clarify. Picking your brain!
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'Helena' will possibly be loisted as the more common form of Ellen. If the earlier births (from 1864 onwards) were registered then it's unlikely that the later ones would not have been registered.
In 1901 there is
Bridget age 25 (c1876) the one I found is 11 years older
Margaret age 23 (c1878) the one I found is 9 years older
Helena age 21 (c1880) the Ellen I found is 10 years older (but you say she died as an infant- are you sure that Ellen is the child of Michael and Anne? death certificates don't list parents usually although one of them may have registered the event)
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I cannot be 100% sure of Ellen. I base it on the fact that there is an Ellen born ( Name Ellen Sargint Birth date: 08 Oct 1870 Birthplace: Cappoquin, Waterford (Sub District) Ref. : 817 Parent : Michael Sargint & Anne Tracy (Familysearch records) )
The death for Ellen in Waterford death registers :
Date of Death: 16 Oct 1870
Place of Death: Mill St
Name: Sargint, Ellen, Sex: F, Age at Death: 1 Week, Rank: Carpenters Child, Condition: Child
Cause of Death: Convulsions
Informant: Tracy, Mary
Qualification: Present at Death, Residence: Castle St
So the Ellen born with named parents Michael and Anne fits the name/age( 1 week) of the Ellen death in 1870.
I averaged out the age variance for the girls in the 1901 census but yes you are right.
It seems a very big age difference , even for census records? I fully expected to find registrations But I can't find any civil records for the 1901 girls.
I cannot work this scenario at all. Even by the rest of my Irish family , this one is puzzling.
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Hi Erin
Have you found the details for Bridget, Margaret and other siblings you were seeking?
I think I have seen your name on Ancestry as I was assembling my family tree 😊
Carmel
The 3 daughters that I mentioned who are on the 1901 census are different to the ones that you have provided and I had found also. These are 3 additional daughters , I think. They are 10 years older than the original set (Anne died 7 months, Cornelius 7 months, Ellen 1 month).
Older siblings James Matthew, Kate Mary and Mary (whose birth records I don't have ) came to Australia. Admiittedly I cannot find any deaths for Margaret(1869) and Bridget(1865) BUT could they both be so wrong with ages? Oddly enough they are both different to the Margaret and Bridget census by about the same 9 ish years!!!
Helena , I cannot find any Civil or familysearch record for. do you know if all records are digitised?
I am wondering what I could do next to try and clarify. Picking your brain!
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Erinsullivan was last online here at 3:28 this morning and will hopefully reply to your post.
Good luck! :)
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Thank you very much, if that was her local time I’d better allow her to sleep in! ;D
I’m in Aust, sun is just setting :)
Erinsullivan was last online here at 3:28 this morning and will hopefully reply to your post.
Good luck! :)
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...if that was her local time I’d better allow her to sleep in! ;D
It's UK...Local Time : Saturday 08 March 25 10:15 GMT (UK)
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The Michael in the 1901 census was a widower and died in 1902. There is an Ann who died in 1893 who also lived in Mill St and was a carpenters wife . Anne was 10 years older than Michael .
URL links-
Michael aged 60 yrs - daughter Bridget the informant.
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1902/05701/4607624.pdf
Anne aged 62 yrs - again daughter Bridget the informant.
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1893/05983/4701618.pdf
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Hello I was surprised to receive a reply so long after original post. Are you researching this family also?
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Hello I was surprised to receive a reply so long after original post. Are you researching this family also?
Are you replying to Carsamus who was online here 4 days ago?
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Yes I think you are right. I will reply to Carsamus. Sorry.