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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: alexb123 on Sunday 24 July 11 19:47 BST (UK)
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I'm new to this, and don't really know where to start.
I'm looking for any information on John Smyth, son of Peter and brother of Patrick. I have very little information, he may have worked as a barber, and later on the railway. He may have spent some time in Dan Laoghaire, but had left Ireland by 1911.
I am looking for any birth information, he was a roman catholic, or any information on his parents or siblings.
Any help or information would be much appreciated. :)
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Another detail that might be useful would be his father's occupation. This is generally shown on marriage certs. Do you know who/where/when he married ?
Any idea of what part of Dublin John was born ? .. i.e. City, Suburbs, north or south county......
Shane
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John was married in England in 1916, the marriage certificate says that his father Peter Smyth had been a Railway Foreman, but it also says that Peter Smyth was deceased in 1916.
I don't know where they lived in Dublin, except that Peter married again, after John's mother died, and John and Patrick did not live with the second family.
The only other thing I know is that he was a member of the Archconfraternity of the Holy Family in Dublin.
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Sorry, I meant to add that he was from the City of Dublin.
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Had a look at 1901 and 1911 census but nothing jumps out.
http://www.irishconfraternities.ie/view_confraternity.php?id=27
http://www.irishconfraternities.ie/view_confraternity.php?id=27&tab=locations
Only one branch in Dublin:Halston Street And Arran Quay Founded Dublin 1878
Might be worth contacting them to see if membership lists have survived and are in the archive in Maynooth University.
Lots of interesting stuff on this site about confraternities.
Have you the name of Peter Smyth's wifes second husband? PM
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Have you found John and/or Peter on the 1901/1911 Irish Census ?
If John was born in the City of Dublin then the two likely registration districts are Dublin North and Dublin South - but note that these also cover areas outside the city. Assuming the year of birth is accurate then these are the possible matches on the BMD Index :
Name: John Joseph Smith
Registration District: Dublin North
Event Type: Birth
Quarter and Year: Apr - Jun 1882
Volume: 2 / Page: 511
Name: John Laurence Smith
Registration District: Dublin North
Event Type: Birth
Quarter and Year: Apr-Jun 1882
Volume: 2 / Page: 547
Name: John Smith
Registration District: Dublin South
Event Type: Birth
Quarter and Year: Apr-Jun 1882
Volume: 2 / Page: 663
Name: John Harold Smythe
Registration District: Dublin South
Event Type: Birth
Quarter and Year: Apr-Jun 1882
Volume: 2 / page : 674
Note that years of birth reported in later records are not always accurate... so you may need to allow a couple of years either way when searching...
You can also check RC baptism records for many parishes in Dublin City on www.irishgenealogy.ie I dont see any sign of a John Smyth with father Peter during 1882, but further records are due later in the year
Shane
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the only RC Smith/Smyth family with father Peter I've located on the IrishGenealogy records is this one on Basin Lane, RC Parish of St. James - see link (http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/search.jsp?name2=grady&name=smyth&location=basin&dd=&mm=&yy=&submit=Search&sort=date&pageSize=100&type=B&diocese=DUBLIN+%28RC%29&parish=¢ury=&decade=)
No sign of John , but children Margaret, Mary and George born between 1876 and 1881 to parents Peter Smith and Catherine Grady. Might be worth keeping a note of...
Shane
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Thanks for your reply pastmagic.
- I tried to get information on the Archconfraternity and was told that there were a few branches of the confraternity in the city of Dublin parishes. These included St Paul's, Arran Quay, St Catherine's, Meath Street, St Michan's, Halston Street and St Nicholas of Myra, Francis Street. But I could not find any membership information. I think I may have been unclear about the two marriages, Peter Smyth's first marriage was to the mother of John Smyth and Patrick Smyth and ended when his wife died, I'm afraid I don't know her name. He then remarried, but I have no information about the second wife or whether he had a second family.
Thanks Shane for your reply.
- I cannot find either Peter Smyth or John Smyth on either census, but I believe that they were both in Dublin in 1901. (I think that John was in England in 1911). I have had a look at the family in Basin Lane lane on your link, the birth dates are younger than John, rather than older which is not what I expected as I understood that John was a child of Peter's first marriage, but if it is the only Peter it is worth keeping a note of.
Thanks again
Alex :)
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I have been trying to cross reference the information above.
Can anyone tell me whether the following parishes (above) are in Dublin South or Dublin North - St Paul's, St Catherines, St Michans and St Nicholas of Myra?
I was also wondering how I might tie these parishes into the areas on the 1901 census, as I am still drawing a blank on that.
I also read that parish registers for all the above parishes are available at the National Library of Ireland. Is there any online information for these or is a visit necessary?
Thanks
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re RC Parishes :
St. Pauls - North city, the church is at Arran Quay
St. Catherine's - south city, Meath Street
St. Michan's - north city, North Anne Street/Halston St
St. Nicolas Without - south city, Francis Street
There's no direct correlation between the census returns and the RC parishes, you have to estimate the parish based the locations, or by checking other records for the same area (e.g. on IrishGenealogy).
You have to visit the National Library to view the microfilms, but many RC parish records for Dublin City are already available online on www.irishgenealogy.ie , more are due to be added later in the year.
Shane
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important point about the NLI microfilms to keep in mind if searching for a baptism in 1882... they often only cover up to 1880 or so.
I would think civil records might be a better line of research to try first... if the date of birth you have is accurate, then there are not that many possible matches to try.
Shane
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Well, I have searched and searched for John Smyth in Dublin with no luck, although I think I may have found his brother Patrick on the census in Dublin in 1911.
Finally, I think that I have found a clue, but in an unexpected place. The 1901 census has a John Smyth of about the right age, with correct names and occupations for brother Patrick and father Peter (plus an additional unexpected sister). However they are in Gormanstown, Meath.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Meath/Stamullin/Gormanstown/1610286/
It is a mystery as we have only ever heard mention of Dublin. I dont know now whether to try to find a John Smyth born in Meath or assume that they moved there temporarily. Are there census records for Ireland for 1891 and 1881 that I could check?
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Are there census records for Ireland for 1891 and 1881 that I could check?
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no - only 1901 and 1911 returns are complete. The 1881 and 1891 returns were among those pulped by Governent order after the various statistics had been extracted. Only a few fragments of earlier returns (e.g. 1851,1841 etc) survive for a small number of townlands.
see : Introduction to Irish Records (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,442233.0.html)
S.
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Hi,
Do you have any information on Patrick and kate ?
I have all three in my tree.
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Hello,
I have the date of birth of both
Patrick 28/3/1881 Stamullen
Kate 7/6/1877 Delvin Strand Stamullen
There was another two brothers Joseph and Peter
Joseph 26/5/1879 Baltray Termonfeckin
Peter 1905 (step brother from second marriage on 1911 census), I cannot find his birth.
How are you connected?
Best wishes
Alex
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I have patrick joseph smyth born 12 May 1878 in Clondalkin.
known as kate Catherine Elizabeth Smyth born 19 Jul 1875 in Clondalkin
if these are the same people then Patrick was my grandfather on my fathers side and Kate was my great grandmother on my mothers side she married Patrick Kelly in Dublin in 1894
lets hope these are the ones ?
Michael
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Having had another look at birth dates looks likey I maybe out of luck. I am not sure where all the locations in Ireland are time to get the map out,
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I think you may be right, they don't seem to match.
The Smyth's I have were born in County Meath, but most of the family moved to Dublin at some time in the early 1900s.
Good luck with your search, and best wishes for the new year.
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Thank you