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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cheshire => Topic started by: JohnJean on Sunday 24 July 11 07:17 BST (UK)
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Hello. This might be a needle in a haystack question. I am enquiring from Australia. Harrison Ancestors were "Flatmen" and "Watermen". With help from people on this site in canal boatmen topic area I discovered more about that they owned and or operated "Flats". I have found general and specification details from the registry of flats, Jim Sheads Waterway site and Wikipedia. Question is to find more specific details and information about the individual flats "Polly" (definite link), "Newton" (possible link) and "Governor" (vague link), should I write to the Ellesmore Port Museum or are there any other sites that might provide clues. Thanks. JohnJean
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Are you referring to the Salt flats around Northwich / Weaverham area ? and the flat boats they used ?
http://www.citizendia.org/Northwich
http://www.mcrh.mmu.ac.uk/pubs/pdf/mrhr_15_museums_fielding.pdf
these 2 sites may help
allan
sorry...just realised you are looking for specific boats name Polly / Newton / Governor .....
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I think you would have more chance of success if you looked with the correct term Mersey Flat.
As well as the boat museum at Ellesmere Port, Maritime Museum at Liverpool has information on the vessels.
Also contact River Weaver Navigation Society
http://www.rwns.co.uk/contact-us/
Get hold of the book Mersey Flats and Flatmen (NMGM, 1993) by Michael Stammers.
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Hi JohnJean,
A wooden sailing flat "Polly" was built at the dockyard on the river Weaver at Northwich, belonging to John Thompson & Son in 1875 and they were also the registered owners.
This flat may be a possibility, but it is very difficult to keep track of owners and captains of vessels. John Thompson & Son had several salt works and mines at this time, so would be shipping salt for themselves and building flats for this purpose. Maybe one of the Harrisons could have been employed by Thompsons as Captain? By 1884 John Thompson was under the constraints of bankruptcy and the dockyard went to public auction and by 1888 with the formation of the Salt Union many of the vessels would have been sold along with the salt works/mines to the Salt Union.
odessa.
[odessa - a wooden sailing flat built in 1855 for James Deakin of Northwich, salt proprietor]
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Thank you all for this information. I will follow it up. Once again I find people on this site are so helpful. I appreciate it. JohnJean
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JohnJean
Had a look in my old files last night and found this from the local newspapers (my transcript)
Northwich Guardian Saturday FEB 26th 1876 p8c2
Leasehold Salt Works at Over.
The Sale by Auction, by Messrs Marsh & Son, at the Angel Hotel, Northwich, on the 25th inst. Of the Salt Works at Over, occupied by the Trustees of the will of the late Mr Thos. Harrison, deceased; as also the sale of the Flat “Newton” and Barge “Polly” advertised in the Guardian of last week, is unavoidably postponed – Particulars of the sale, however will shortly appear.
Algn. Fletcher, Solicitor, Northwich. 17 FEB 1876
I have the sale details which I'll send in a PM
odessa.
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Hi JohnJean -
I've contacted the Ellesmere Boat Museum and visited the Maritime Museum in search of much the same information for my ancestor's flats "Asia", "Jonah" and "Merrie England". Unfortunately, they seem to concentrate on larger vessels so it seems like Odessa's details are your best bet for following up information (as ever, Odessa has been incredibly helpful to my research!).
Best regards,
Janet
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Hi.
Thank you Odessa and Janet for that information.
It seems to be a very long project with these ancestors, Janet.
I have read the PM, Odessa and it is fascinating. Thank you very much once again for your help.
Regards. JohnJean
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Hi,
High-jacking the thread a little, but have you seen any mention of a flat called 'The Ruth'?
My ancestor John Tarbuck of Northwich left a 4th part share in his will, made in 1833, to his son Thomas, and it was still operating in 1859 ( http://webspace.webring.com/people/wn/northwichpages/flats.html ). Just replying on the off chance that you might have more information.
Also if you're interested in Northwich that page has some interesting information, but you might need the 'way back machine' ( http://www.archive.org/web/web.php ) to be able to access some of the pages.
Thanks,
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Hi,
I have a small mention of a vessel "Ruth" from what looks like a sale, perhaps of an estate, as many lots are involved, including a property known as "Cagintree House" in Hartford. The vendor or their trustees are not named.
Northwich Guardian Saturday APR 16th 1881 p8c2
On Thursday April Twenty Eighth.
Hartford and Witton, Cheshire.
Valuable Freehold and Residential Estate, Building Land, Cottages and Chief Rents for Sale.
Lot 16. One half share of the Flat “Ruth” of 100 tons burthen, now navigating the River Mersey and of which flat Thomas Tarbuck is captain, with the small boat, rigging and tackling thereto.
This may be the same vessel, or perhaps a 2nd of the same name. A vessel named "Ruth" was built at Thompsons yard, Northwich in 1865 which of course wouldn't be your original vessel named in the will dated 1833
I assume that you have these figures from the Registers of Weighed Flats?
(The weight (tonnage) is the amount each flat could carry when fully laden.)
Date Number NAME Owner Captain Tonnage
1863
6th. 7th. Aug. 407 RUTH Thos. Tarbuck Thos. Tarbuck 105
Is your John Tarbuck the father of Kitty born abt.1788? Husband of Ruth Malbone?
odessa.
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Thanks for that. Yes, it looks like the son built a new ship and named it after his father's then.
Yes, that's mine. Kitty was born 5 Mar 1789, baptised the 27th. John's parents were John and Catharine.
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Thanks, I had suspected as much after some research into the Fowls family. I don't have much on the Tarbuck family, but have info on the line from Kitty Tarbuck & William Fowls and also some Malbone lines - Katherine Malbone & Edward Gandy and also Elizabeth Malbone & William Deakin.
If there's anything you are short of send me a P.M.
odessa.