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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: steviej1957 on Thursday 21 July 11 17:47 BST (UK)

Title: Cant find Marriage Record
Post by: steviej1957 on Thursday 21 July 11 17:47 BST (UK)
This is my Great  Great Grandmothers Death Cert ....

Been tearing me hair out for the past year or so, trying to find their marriage Cert.. Her maiden name from her Children birth Cert, says it was Wilson...



Can anybody help Please  ??? ???
Title: Re: Cant find Marriage Record
Post by: Mort29 on Thursday 21 July 11 18:03 BST (UK)
Same address 37 years later ....

They had a 15 year old in the 1901 census... RG13/Piece: 529 Folio: 7 Page: 6  Deptford St Paul @ 214 Edward Street
 
John H Judge 41 Head of Household born Kent, Smarden?: Gardener (not domestic) Own Account
Jessie Judge 36 Wife born Greenwich
Jessie Judge 15 dau New Cross
Florence Judge 12 dau ditto
Ethel Judge 10 dau ditto
Alice Judge 8 dau ditto
Elsie Judge 6 dau ditto
Mary Judge 4 dau ditto
 


In 1891 census of Deptford St Paul RG12/Piece: 499 Folio 7 Page 7  @ 214, Edward Street.

Jessie states PoB as Blackheath, and theres an older dau Emily c1884 New Cross




It really should be this marriage - but no male names match  >:(

Marriages Mar 1885 
 
BIRD  Harriet    Dartford  2a 509   
Ceaves  William     Dartford  2a 509   
Warren  George Arthur C     Dartford  2a 509   
Wilson  Jessie Mary A     Dartford  2a 509

 

Looks like Rosie has cracked it - see her later post ...  8)
 
Title: Re: Cant find Marriage Record
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 21 July 11 18:09 BST (UK)
There is a marriage in 1882
Jessie Mary Ann Alcroft Shephard Perren father George Perren decd Jessie is age 18 ie born 1864

8th April 1882 St James the Great Tower Hamlets
John Henry Judge full age father James Judge - both have occupation labourer
John is a bachelor, Jessie a spinster
witnessess  Eliza Andrews and Harriet Gledhill

Rosie
Title: Re: Cant find Marriage Record
Post by: lizdb on Thursday 21 July 11 18:09 BST (UK)
1891

RG12 499 7 7

shows an older child aged 7

214 Edward Street

John 32 gardener
Jessie 26 bn Blackheath
Emily 7 bn New X
Jessie 5 bn New X
Florence 3 bn Deptford
Ethel 1 bn Deptford
George Barker 65 widower boarder
Thomas Hierous 31 boarder
Title: Re: Cant find Marriage Record
Post by: Mort29 on Thursday 21 July 11 18:19 BST (UK)
NIce one Rosie - I saw that earlier, but FreeBMD have her first forename as Jane  :P

Flukey that I had a Jessie M A Wilson marrying - but not to a Judge - LOL
Title: Re: Cant find Marriage Record
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 21 July 11 18:28 BST (UK)
Hi steviej1957

Should have said - Welcome to rootschat  ;D   If you need childrens baptism details let us know  :)



I saw that earlier, but FreeBMD have her first forename as Jane  :P


I saw that too, it was all the initials that drew me in  ;D  Why does rootschat always get interesting when it's my dinner time.  ::)
Title: Re: Cant find Marriage Record
Post by: carol8353 on Thursday 21 July 11 18:28 BST (UK)
Have you found her in 1911- shoudl say how long she's been married and with any amount of luck have older parents (or one of them) living wth her  ;)

Carol
Title: Re: Cant find Marriage Record
Post by: carol8353 on Thursday 21 July 11 18:31 BST (UK)
1891

RG12 499 7 7

shows an older child aged 7

214 Edward Street

John 32 gardener
Jessie 26 bn Blackheath
Emily 7 bn New X
Jessie 5 bn New X
Florence 3 bn Deptford
Ethel 1 bn Deptford
George Barker 65 widower boarder
Thomas Hierous 31 boarder

Next door to this family is a David and Eliza Andrews-from the 1911 index there is an Eliza Andrews with the Judge family  ;D

Carol
Title: Re: Cant find Marriage Record
Post by: carol8353 on Thursday 21 July 11 18:35 BST (UK)
Following on from Rosie's find of the surname Perren,this marriage may be relevant?

Marriages Dec 1881   
 
Andrews  David    Bethnal Green  1c 377   
MIDDLETON  Bannerman     Bethnal Green  1c 377   
PERREN  Eliza     Bethnal Green  1c 377   
STRACHAN  Isabella     Bethnal Green  1c 377   

Carol
Title: Re: Cant find Marriage Record
Post by: carol8353 on Thursday 21 July 11 18:39 BST (UK)
There is a marriage in 1882
Jessie Mary Ann Alcroft Shephard Perren father George Perren decd Jessie is age 18 ie born 1864

8th April 1882 St James the Great Tower Hamlets
John Henry Judge full age father James Judge - both have occupation labourer
John is a bachelor, Jessie a spinster
witnessess  Eliza Andrews and Harriet Gledhill

Rosie

So mum's a witness then  ;D
Title: Re: Cant find Marriage Record
Post by: Mort29 on Thursday 21 July 11 18:45 BST (UK)
Dont forget the mention of a Maiden name of Wilson !

Coincidence?

1871 census of Greenwich, Blackheath Hill   RG10/Piece: 754 Folio: 32 Page: 25 @ 4, Prior Street
 
Ann Baker 36 Head born Claremont
Eliza Wilson 37 Lodger WIDOW born Greenwich, Lavender xx Rd: Dressmaker
Jessie Wilson 7 dau born Greenwich, Blackheath Hill
Title: Re: Cant find Marriage Record
Post by: Sharon01 on Thursday 21 July 11 18:47 BST (UK)
Have you found her in 1911- shoudl say how long she's been married and with any amount of luck have older parents (or one of them) living wth her  ;)

Carol

In 1911 they are still at the same address. It states they have been married 28 years so 1883.

Sharon
Title: Re: Cant find Marriage Record
Post by: Sharon01 on Thursday 21 July 11 18:50 BST (UK)
I think you should check the 1911 census, quite interesting who is living with them.

Sharon
Title: Re: Cant find Marriage Record
Post by: Mort29 on Thursday 21 July 11 19:00 BST (UK)
yes, and look at DoB and Pob of that Eliza Andrews

Andrews,  Eliza  c1834  Blackheath Hill

So looks like 'Mum' I saw on the 1871 census  :P

well, how did she get to Perren from Wilson? (we saw Perren -> Andrews marriage)


Also I cant find Birth Inx entry in either surname for Jessie ....
Title: Re: Cant find Marriage Record
Post by: Sharon01 on Thursday 21 July 11 19:31 BST (UK)
Also I cant find Birth Inx entry in either surname for Jessie ....
Quote

Neither can I.

Sharon
Title: Re: Cant find Marriage Record
Post by: carol8353 on Thursday 21 July 11 19:41 BST (UK)
Marrriage at St James Bethnal Green 1st Oct 1881.

David Andrews full age widower,labourer,father Thomas Andrews decd
Eliza Perren full age SPINSTER! both of Bethnal Green father George Perren decd

Witnesses Harriet Gledhill(sound familiar!) and I Purches?

Carol
Title: Re: Cant find Marriage Record
Post by: carol8353 on Thursday 21 July 11 19:58 BST (UK)
I think Harriet and Eliza are sisters.

In 1841 we have at Orchard HIll Greenwich

Elizabeth Perren 40,laundress, not born in Kent
Harriet Perren 10 both girls born in Kent
Eliza Perren 6

Carol
Title: Re: Cant find Marriage Record
Post by: steviej1957 on Thursday 21 July 11 21:04 BST (UK)
Have you found her in 1911- shoudl say how long she's been married and with any amount of luck have older parents (or one of them) living wth her  ;)

Carol

In the 1911 Census, its states they have been Married 28 years which brings it back to 1883.

It also states that Eliza Andrews is the mother in law of John Henry Judge ...  :-\ :-\

But on my Great Granmothers birth Cert, its states Jessie was formally a Wilson  :-\ :-\
Title: Re: Cant find Marriage Record
Post by: steviej1957 on Thursday 21 July 11 21:05 BST (UK)
Thanks everybody for all youre info   :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: Cant find Marriage Record
Post by: steviej1957 on Thursday 21 July 11 21:14 BST (UK)
Florence Judge birth Cert ..

Title: Re: Cant find Marriage Record
Post by: steviej1957 on Thursday 21 July 11 21:17 BST (UK)
In the 1871 Census there is a Jessie Wilson born 1864, and an Eliza Wilson born 1834 both Lodging in 4 Prior st Greenwich and both born in Blackheath


 :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\
Title: Re: Cant find Marriage Record
Post by: steviej1957 on Thursday 21 July 11 21:20 BST (UK)
Hi mort29, Thats another thing, cant find jessies birth cert either

  :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\
Title: Re: Cant find Marriage Record
Post by: carol8353 on Thursday 21 July 11 22:50 BST (UK)
In the 1841 census they live a few doors away from a Wilson family- maybe one of them is Jessie's dad?

Looking at the 1881 marriage cert of Eliza Perren,it lists her as a spinster,so it sounds like she had Jessie as a single mum-the fathers name may well have been Wilson though.

It wasn't compulsory to register births before 1875 so not everyone did.

Carol
Title: Re: Cant find Marriage Record
Post by: Mort29 on Friday 22 July 11 11:36 BST (UK)
yes, and look at DoB and Pob of that Eliza Andrews

Andrews,  Eliza  c1834  Blackheath Hill

So looks like 'Mum' I saw on the 1871 census  :P

well, how did she get to Perren from Wilson? (we saw Perren -> Andrews marriage)


Also I cant find Birth Inx entry in either surname for Jessie ....

pretty much summarises ..... and from Carol's later posts, I'd agree that Jessie was illegitimate ... and 'George Perren' was a fabricated name on the 1882 Marriage papers ....
Title: Re: Cant find Marriage Record
Post by: steviej1957 on Sunday 24 July 11 11:55 BST (UK)
Many Thanks to Everyone For all your Help ..... 8) 8) 8) 8)


Title: Re: Cant find Marriage Record
Post by: sj126 on Sunday 29 April 12 08:38 BST (UK)
Hello,

I have just read your past messages quite by accident and with much excitement. I am related to John Henry Judge, the husband of Jessie Perrin / Wilson. He is my great grand uncle. I have been working on this line for years. Can we please share info? I assume from your messages that if Jessie is your gt grandmother then I hope that I rightly think John is your gt grandfather.