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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Herefordshire => Topic started by: harrovian on Wednesday 20 July 11 23:22 BST (UK)
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Hi Peeps, have many credits with Scotlands people as most of my family hail from there. I didn't sign up for the ancestry.co.uk website as i saw little point however i am stumped as it appears that my GGF was born in hereford (stated in Lugar census 1891) found his death cert (he died in Scotland) i cannot find any trace of a birth cert??? so i would be most greatful if anyone who has access to UK archives could do a look up for me.
the details i have are as follows
Robert McCall born 1884/5/6???
parents
William McCall & Margaret Marr both parents were deceased by 1905 Robert married in 1905 he was only 20 years old & both were deceased. i can't find any marrs that pertain to my search in Scotland so maybe Hereford holds the key!
thanks in advance ;D
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parents William McCall & Margaret Marr
stated in Lugar census 1891
Where is Lugar?
The only Robert McCall born England that I can find on the 1891 Scottish census had a father John and mother Margaret and was living in Lanarkshire
There is no birth in Herefordshire on freebmd
What birthplace is shown for his parents in the 1891 census you mention
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marriage as follows
William McCall to Margaret Marr on 27th august 1867 Kilbirnie,Ayr,Scotland...an Extracted record ....so presumably Robert was born late 1884/5/6/...thats 17 years plus, later .Do you have the family in the 1891 /1901 census ?
allan
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I have found a family in Peel, Isle of Man. 1891
William McCall 44 Net? Machinist b.Scotland
Margaret 35 b.Ireland
Mary 17 b.Scotland
Elizabeth 15 b. Scotland
Archibald 11 b. Peel
Margaret 9 b.Peel
Robert 7 b. Peel
Agnes 5 b.Peel
Christinia 3 b.Peel
Isabella 1 b.Peel
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The same family are on the 1881 IOM census and certainly seem to match the profile given except for birthplace of Robert etc.
However - there is this from the opening post
i am stumped as it appears that my GGF was born in hereford (stated in Lugar census 1891)
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Thanks all for you help. Some of you are wasted & should seek a career in pi work! ;D
Skylark that definitely is within the realms of possibility as the dates match. Can i ask where you looked up this info as i would like to see if a death cert shows for William or Margaret McCall as Robert definitely lands back in Scotland so perhaps his parents died in the IOM? as they were both deceased at Roberts wedding in 1905 to Agnes Jardine Findlay
The infomation i have for William & Margaret is;
William McCall, locomotive engineer, Margaret Marr - flaxmillworker married Kilbinnie 1867 -
The census i found Hereford on was the Lugar (village in Ayr Scotland) 1911 census where it states pob in one of the columns.
Thanks again everyone any further light that can be shed would be most appreciated!
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I think you have the wrong info re Hereford .....
found this
Familysearch.org / search / Record Pilot
Robert McCall born 15th december 1883 in Peel .Isle of Man
parents William McCall and Margaret Burdin McCall
so he was born Peel ,and not Herefordshire.....do you know where the BURDIN middle name comes in to Margarets name ??....she is not Margaret Burdin Marr on her marriage record
allan :)
same site Peel ,Isle of Man William John McCall born and died March 1881...father William McCall
Margaret McCall born 1852 died 30th december 1879 .......father William McCall ......
hmmm ...do we have 2 families in Peel with parents William and Margaret McCall ...that`s how it looks to me...maybe that`s why the mother is named as Margaret Burdin McCall .......anyone any thoughts please ??
allan
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McCall births ,Peel ,Isle of Man...parents William McCall and Margaret Burdin McCall....as they appear
Isabella born 12th March 1890
Robert 15th dec 1883
Winifred 15th july 1895
William Henry 24th oct 1892
Margaret 7th feb 1882
William John 24th feb 1881
Christina Sarah 25th dec 1887
Agnes 6th november 1885
Archibald McCall born 29th dec 1879 is recorded twice...on both records it states Mother Margaret Robinson McCall
so 11 children in all.......IF Archibald is part of the family .....
allan
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I am getting my info. on Ancestry.
The family still live in Peel I of M in 1901 with the addition of William 8 and Winifred 5. Mary, Archibald and Robert are missing.
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1901 Robert 18 b.Peel was a fisherman on 'The Nymph' - master Henry Watterson - part of the Peel fishing fleet.
Smiths Directory 1889 Peel I of M - McCall Wm. Machine maker Stanley Road.
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1871 census - Margaret Burden 17 b.Ireland, servant in Peel to Mary Ann Roberts,shopkeeper.
From the information that has been supplied - 1881 Margaret McCall was born about 1856, therefore she couldn't be the wife of William in 1867. I believe that the original wife, Margaret, died 30 Dec 1879, as stated after her son Archibald was born 29 Dec 1879. Before the date of the 1881 census William married Margaret Burden/Burdin.
William's first two known children were born in Scotland, Mary Ann about 1873 and Elizabeth about 1875, therefore he must have moved to Peel between 1875 and the birth of Archibald Dec 1879.
Maybe the first Margaret was a Margaret Robinson and not Margaret Marr?? There is a William and Margaret McCall both born Scotland, living in London at this time, perhaps this Margaret was a Marr!
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I have just found a christening for Mary Ann - 13 December 1873 - Inveresk & Musselburgh Midlothian - parents William McCall and Margaret Robinson.
1871 - Inveresk
William McCall 27 mechanic b. Mussgh. Edingurgh (nephew)
Mary McCall 17 b. Ireland former net weaver. (Head)
Margaret Brown 45 net weave b.Mussgh. Edinburgh (neice)
Robert Scott 18 baker b.England (Boarder)
the relationships are a bit odd if all of their ages are correct!
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I am very impressed Skylark...I would agree with the Robinson link....as Archibald is there in the census, he is obviously Williams ....either that ,or this is the wrong family...if Harrovian is CERTAIN that Margaret was Margaret Marr....OR...could William have married 3 times - each time to a Margaret ??...lol...so I take it Margaret / Elizabeth / Archibald were all mothers maiden name Robinson ?...is that what you are suggesting ?.....
allan
added...just read your next post as I was posting...so ...yes...mmn Robinson for first 3 children...do you think this is the wrong family, as Margaret Marr is not involved at all ??
allan
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I think I need to go back to basics!! What exactly was the original information on Robert. Who did he marry and what information was on the marriage certificate? Where did the surname Marr come from?
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Skylark...Margaret Marr is names as Roberts mother on post 1 of this thread
allan
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Yes, but is this suposition! The William who married Margaret Marr in Killbinnie stayed in Kilbirnie Ayrshire 1871, Riccarton Ayrshire 1881 and in 1891 William 49 stationary engine driver is living with his son Thomas (head) 19 railway engine fireman, Jane 22 sister, ROBERT 6 brother - b. Riccarton Ayrshire. So, was Margaret McCall nee Marr named on Robert's marriage certificate. If so, this is the family.
What was the name of Margaret Marr's father on her marriage in 1867 to William McCall?
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Whilst married to William McCall, Margaret nee Marr said she was born in about 1845 Kilburnie -
1851 - Kilburnie
Robert Morr 59 head line thread lapper b. Aberdeen
Jean Morr 30 wife b. Kilburnie
William Morr 10 b. Kilburnie
Jean Morr 8 b.Kilburnie
Margaret Morr 6 b. Kilburnie
Barbra Morr 4 b. Kilburnie
Robert Morr 1 b. Kilburnie
1861 - Kilburnie
Robert Mars 49 Thread Lapper b. Old Machar Aberdeen
Jane Mars 41 wif b. Kilburnie
William 20
Jane 18
Margaret 16
Barbra 13
Robert 10
James 8
Catherine 2
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This is the Information i have that Pertains to Robert McCall. Thanks again for all you help.
I should plumb for IOM but something just doesn't feel right about it.
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Thanks Skylark you have inadvertently cracked it for me!! Rincanton as mentioned in your census reply well that held the key!
1884 MCCALL ROBERT M RICCARTON /AYR 611/00 0281
this is My Robert! and the census's you listed with the Morrs, Mars that is also correct. obviously they have spelled the family surname incorrect on both census's also the 1911 which states Robert was born in hereford must also have been incorrect & has led me a merry dance! That said Is this common for such in-accuracies on census forms as its definitely them as the ages, occupations, names etc all add up?
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You're welcome. Sorry to question Robert's mother's name, 'Marr'. The English marriage certs. only name fathers, therefore I couldn't understand how you were certain of his mother's maiden name. The Scottish system is certainly more helpful.
The information for these census is given by word of mouth, therefore local accent and the numerators ability to spell often results in misinformation. The 1911 census is different, it is written by the head of household, providing he can write, and is usually more accurate.