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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Cork => Topic started by: loudam on Sunday 17 July 11 12:03 BST (UK)
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Hi
Does anyone know what church would cover the area of Douglas Road around 1915, my grandfather came from there but we can't get any further than his marriage cert because we don't know his mothers name, so we're going to try church records if we can to see if there are any records for his baptism...
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St Columba's is the RC parish church in Douglas, also Our Lady of Lourdes, Ballinlough is nearby
http://www.corkandross.org
http://www.douglas.cork.anglican.org/ this Anglican church is also in Douglas.
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I've searched for Ballincurrig which is where my grandfather was from on the douglas road on the Irish Geneolgy church records and it gives St Finbarrs South parish as the only records for Ballincurrig before 1900, so I'll have a look into St Columbas, my mother has said that her grandparents (my grandads parents) are buried in the grave yard in douglas, so must also pay a visit there too to see if we might be able to get my grandads mothers name..
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Hi,
What are the names you have? There are two churches in Douglas, St Columbas ( R C) and St Lukes( C of I).
I have photographed lots of the headstones in both cemeteries. If you would like to give me the names I can have a look at my files.
Also have a look at www.irishgenealogy.ie
The fact that your relations lived in Douglas does not mean they were married or baptised there. Sometimes people decided to go to the churches in the City Centre. St Peter and Pauls RC Paul Street just off Patricks Street ( the main street) was popular as was St Finbarrs South, Dunbar Street off Douglas Street.
Mary
Celtic Liberty
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The name I have for my great grandfather is Jeremiah O Sullivan, I've no idea when he died, but my grandfather was born around 1915 so it would have to be after that, the other thing I did notice when I got the marriage certs for my grandparents is that my Paternal grandmother had her father named on her marriage cert with (dead) in brackets so I'm assuming that if it was noted for him and not for anyone else that the rest of them were alive when my grand parents got married...
I did see a record for a Daniel O Sullivan Ballincurrig on the Irish geneology website for St Finbarrs south parish, http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/f4b20c0084719 Date of baptism 1806 so may be a family member or could just be coincidence!
I was looking at St Columbas on the cork and ross website and it says it's only got deaths since 1983 so I'm a little confused as to where my mother thinks her grandparents are buried now!!
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I checked my database and I only have one O'Sullivan headstone for St Columbas. Nothing for Jeremiah. What other surnames could be listed on the headstone?
Mary
Celtic Liberty
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I've no idea of any other name that could be listed, my grandfather (jeremiahs son) is buried in St Josephs tory top road with my nan and there are 2 others buried in that grave at least 100 years before my grandfather was buried there.
I need to prod my mother further about it all, both my mother and father are coming up with right gems of info when I mention something, something they already knew but didn't divulge!!!
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i'm wondering if there is still more information you have that could help...
...in particular attempting to identify your Greatgrandfather via the 1911 census...
Have you tried to identify Jeremiah O/Sullivan's around the Douglas/ Ballintemple/Turner's Cross area which Douglas Road runs through.
do you know his work/profession?
did he have children that were older then your grandfather?
what was his wife's first name?
any other information you have on him, including a guess at his age, would help narrow down the possibilities and identify his family via the census.
Padraig
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I have tried to identify my grandfather's father from the 1911 Census, my grandparents got married in 1940, we have a rough idea that my grandfather was born in 1915 but again that could be variable, my mother thinks he was one of the older children which could possibly mean he didn't get married until after the 1911 census..
We don't know my GF's mothers name and all I know from my mother is that when they went to visit they went to a lovely house with an orchard in it, it had loads of ground around it but it was right on the douglas road and she remembers getting the bus right outside the door of the house home.....
We really need to find out his mothers name to get any further, so there are few now at this stage of it that I can't be certain are right, even though they look right so I'm going to start compiling a list of records I'd like to see and plan a trip to dublin to have a look at the records rather than just keep ordering the certs..
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You cannot view the actual registers in the GRO Research room - you have to order each of the certs you are interested in to see the details
... there's a maximum of 5 per day, per person. Any additional certs can be posted out to you.
Shane
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I thought you could view a register in Dublin with all of the records in them then order certs based on that or is it just the same as whats on the familysearch website??? If so then there would be no point in going to view them...
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I presume you are referring to Civil Records (i.e. Certs) ?
In the GRO Research room you can search index books of Births, deaths or marriage and if you find possible matches you give the details to the GRO staff and they deliver a research cert to you. The Index books show the same details as the family search BMD Index - i.e. name, year/quarter, registration district, volume number & page. These references are then used by the by the GRO people to locate the correct details, create the photocopy it, and bring it your desk. Members of the public dont have access to the registers in the research room.
Shane
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I just saw that on a website!!!!
Ah well I'll have to figure out how to wade through all the O Sullivans in Cork!!!! :)
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It's not easy when you got ancestors with common surnames!
I had a similar problem with with my Kavanagh ancestors, and ended up with quite a number of incorrect certs before I found the ones I was looking for. Although I suspect O'Sullivan could be even more difficult..
The one detail that the Index books show that isn't in the online Index on Familysearch is mother's maiden name in the earlier years. The online index includes this detail from about 1927 - I believe the Index books show this from an earlier date.. poss. 1905 ?
Shane
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Ah well for that alone it could be worth visiting alone, I just found 130 patrick O sullivans!!! There is a Leo and a Rose O Sullivan which are coming up with only 3 or 4 possiblities so I may start with those as they might give me a common mother and fathers name.....
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always best to start the search with the least common name..
S.
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Yes without more detail it is hard to know.
One clue is Ballincurrig. Again not sure what you've looked at but
there is however a Jeremiah O'Sullivan at Ballincurrig, Blackrock
Problem is he already has a young family in 1911.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cork/Blackrock/Ballincurrig/400658/
My understanding is that Ballincurrig is just near Douglas Road South. This at least fits the family story.
I would have thought of this as Douglas? But in the 1911 Census its down as Blackrock.
If you look at Guys Postal 1921 this also has Ballincurrig as being near Douglas Road South.
No Sullivan family mentioned in 1921 but there is a Miss O'Sullivan, Ballincurrig, fruit grower.
Puzzling?
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In the census returns I think Blackrock is the DED & covers a large area including Douglas. My grandparents lived in Ballinlough & are listed under Blackrock DED.
Loudam, you can view the original registers in the Registers Office, Adelaide Street. the problem is that there is a long waiting period so if you give them a ring they'll let you know when the soonest available slot is (could be a year away).
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I believe there is a local Registration office somewhere in Cork City where you may be able to request registers (rather than index books). As far as I remember you need to know the sub-district, and have to make an appointment...
I'll see if I can find the details of the location and the dates of the records they hold
edit: just saw that agho posted some details of the registration office..
Shane
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If you look at the historic maps on the OSI site you'll see that Ballincurrig was quite a large townland and a number of residences have Ballincurrig in the name, Ballincurrig Lodge, House, Cottage etc., on both Douglas Road and South Douglas Road
http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,569269,570094,5,8
In the 1913 Guys page 494 & 495 there are a number of residents listed under Ballincurrig:
Wm Morrogh Ballincurrig Lodge
Maurice Conway, Ballincurrig
Mrs A Peters, Ballincurrig Cottage
John Reese, Ballincurrig House
Mrs O'Sullivan, Ballincurrig
see http://www.corkpastandpresent.ie/places/streetandtradedirectories/
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Thanks everyone, I had worked out that Douglas road comes under Blackrock for the Census, and I've looked at all of the Guys directorys, I think I did come across a Jeremiah O Sullivan Douglas Road 1914 here http://www.corkarchives.ie/media/Irish%20Volunteers%20Cork%20List-by%20name.pdf so he's a possibility...
I had forgotten about being able to view the records in Adeleide street I might give them a ring and put myself on the list, I can always cancel it if I don't need it...
Oldkingcole
I had seen that listing but it doesn't fit with the age of my great grandfather at the time
I have seen Various entries for Mrs Sullivans in the guys in different years, and I know my mother said one of her uncles didn't move too far away from the family home, more or less across the road and he lived next to woolhara park which on the older maps is an area right across the road from Ballincurrig
agho
I've seen that map and it was great for placing places....
I'll see what info I can get from the register entries for my mothers aunt and uncle first...
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Can you locate your great grand father on the census for 1901 or 1911? I recently was looking up a gran uncle of mine , around 1900.Even though they lived at the Lough Road,the parish was St.Finbarrs.
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I've tried to locate him on the census but too many show up to be able to identify him....
I was up with my mother yesterday and we managed to track down a possible marriage of her aunt, but I also narrowed down 2 possible siblings for my grandfather and 1 possible sibling for my grandmother, of course assuming they christened them the name they were known as, like my fater in laws family and my fathers family where half of them were christened by different names to what they were known as, so I've a possible 5 birth certs to order now and hope theres some match, but I'm going on holidays this weekend so no point in ordering them just yet!!
But on looking at the guys almanac up to 1921 there doesn't seem to be a Jeremiah O Sullivan in the area I've narrowed it down to on the guys almanac but there is on the 1945 one, a few reasons would be that they didn't move there until after 1921, it may have been my GGF that married into the family that lived there, or as my father pointed out in that time there was a lot of upheaval in the country so may have affected who was listed, but my mother did say her GF grew quite a lot of vegtables and fruit and supplied some the stalls in the english market, and her own father was a member of the LVF, apparently he got medals etc, it was actually quite funny how she'd just come out with things really!!
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Just wondering if anyone could identify exactly whats what in this map of graveyards in douglas, I'm assuming B and C are the COI graveyards and that A is the Catholic graveyard, was talking to my
Mother in law tonight and she said her mothers family are buried in douglas graveyard too, though she said the same as my own mother did that it was St Finbarrs cemetery, but don't think thats right, I just need to confirm that A is a catholic graveyard and is not a new one, the Cork & Ross website says St Columbas only has burial records from 1983 so it's kind of throwing me off a little, so if anyone can set me straight I'd be grateful
http://maps.google.ie/maps?saddr=51.874987,+-8.435966&daddr=51.874583,-8.437221+to:51.87563,-8.437479&hl=en&sll=51.874848,-8.436921&sspn=0.003862,0.009645&mra=mi&mrsp=2&sz=17&t=h&z=17
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Yes, you are right. A is St. Columbas the Catholic one. B is the older section of St Lukes, The Church of Ireland one and C is the newer section of St. Lukes.
Photos attached - they are literally across the road from each other.
Mary
Celtic Liberty
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Thanks Celtic Library...
Will make a trip there soon for a look around, do you know if there is an office there and if so any idea on opening hours?
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You are welcome.
I don't know about office times. If you google St Columbas Church Douglas, you get the diocesan site. It only has 2 contact phone nos for flowers and church music, no priest's or sacristan's contact nos.
It seems there is Mass at 10 am so if you live nearby you could chance turning up after Mass to meet the priest or sacristan who might be able to help you trace the headstone you are looking for.
Good luck with it.
Mary
Celtic Liberty
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I got a contact number when I emailed the church so I might give that number a ring, I'll call up there anyway too, part of the fun for me at the moment is the just looking around to see if I see something rather than just getting info easily!!
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Just updating that i've found out my Great Grandmothers name that was married to Jeremiah O Sullivan she was Ellen O Sullivan so she had no name change when she got married, so on to the next chapter now tracking down their marriage cert!!
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It's not easy when you got ancestors with common surnames!
I had a similar problem with with my Kavanagh ancestors, and ended up with quite a number of incorrect certs before I found the ones I was looking for. Although I suspect O'Sullivan could be even more difficult..
The one detail that the Index books show that isn't in the online Index on Familysearch is mother's maiden name in the earlier years. The online index includes this detail from about 1927 - I believe the Index books show this from an earlier date.. poss. 1905 ?
Shane
I'm just going over my old posts and I spotted this part again about the mothers maiden names being on the earlier indexes, if this is true I'd try popping in for a look next week when I'm up in dublin to see if I can narrow down any possible O Sullivans with mothers who's maiden name were O Sullivan...