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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cheshire => Topic started by: harley08 on Thursday 14 July 11 06:40 BST (UK)
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I have recieved my great-grandfathers birth certificate, which shows he was born Charles Plaw on the 16th September 1886 at 128 St Anne St, Chester to Elizabeth Plaw, no father named, with his birth registered 16th October 1886. He was taken into the household of John and Jane Thomas at the age of 5. I can find no trace of Elizabeth after this time, no death or marriage or any other children. Would love to know if anyone can help me with any other avenues to search for Elizabeth.
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Hi, Harley08, just to give something of a start, was it the 1891 census in which you found Charles with John and Jane Thomas? If so please can we have more details to find him please. Census reference or ages of John and Jane and place of birth.
Thanks
Kathb
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Do you have Elizabeth in the 1881 census? Do you know who her parent's are? Siblings? Where was she born? (The surname seems centered around Sussex/Surrey).
I'm just trying to get as much info about her as possible in case she is with family in 1891, married, or using another surname etc ...
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Unfortunately I have nothing on Elizabeth at all, I have searched every record I can think of. Charles was listed as a visitor to the household of John and Jane Thomas in the 1891 census and as their son in the 1901 census. He was known as Charles Plaw Thomas his whole life and always thought of John and Jane as his parents. The only thing I know about John is that his family came from Dodleston and that all of the children of John and Jane were born in Wales. The only record I haven't searched for yet is whether Charles was actually adopted by the Thomas family or was he just taken in and brought up by them. Elizabeth is proving to be a real mystery and the only information I have is where she lived at the time of Charles' birth.
Jenni
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Hi, Jenni, thanks for the help. I have been trawling to see if I can find Elizabeth. As you probably know the other Plaw births listed on Cheshirebmd do not equate to an Elizabeth. The parents of those children are a John Plaw and Leah Roylance Hazlehurst all registered in the Warrington area. Interestingly this John was born in Gravesend Kent. As Ruskie has pointed out the last name Plaw seems to focus around the areas of Sussex, Surrey and this one in Kent. I am tracking him back to see if he had a sister called Elizabeth. The other marriage for a Plaw that I found was a Sarah Walls Plaw, married in Tranmere to a William Coward, they went on to have William, Henry and Norman. I am tracking back on Sarah Walls Plaw who was born in Liverpool to see if she had a sister Elizabeth. Will get back to you when I have finished this trawl.
Regards
Kathb
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Jenni, more likely that the Thomas's just took Charles in. I think it wasn't until the 1920's or 30's that official adoption took place.
I can understand being unable to find Elizabeth in the 1891 census as she may have married or died, even though you have found evidence of neither, but she must be somewhere on earlier censuses.
If we guess that she might have been in her late teens to early twenties in 1886 when she had Charles, as a rough guide she may have been born some time between 1850 and 1863. This doesn't really help if we can't find any Elizabeth Plaws.
Although she had Charles in Chester, she could have been born anywhere - maybe sent to Chester to give birth.
If you have a look at google maps much of St Anne Street has been 'developed' but there are some old terrace houses with numbering around 128 (but these may have changed over the years) - it's just interesting to see them. (I checked in case it was an unmarried mother's home or similar).
Does anyone know how to check who was living at that address in 1881 and 1891, in case it was a family member of Elizabeth? :-\
Jenni - do you have Charles marriage certificate? I don't suppose he gives a father's name? :-\
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Does anyone know how to check who was living at that address in 1881 and 1891, in case it was a family member of Elizabeth? :-\
In the 1881 census, the occupants of 128 St Ann Street were Peter & Margaret Bickley, and their 3 children.
In 1891 the family at 128 St Anne Street is Rebecca Overington, Widow, of London and her 6 children
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Hi, Jenni, you would think that with a last name of Plaw that it would be easy to trace someone. Not correct! There appear to be a multitude of mistranscriptions and it will take some time to plough through them.
Here is what I have ruled out and hopefully this does not replicate what you have already done.
I was looking to see if either of the two Cheshire residents with the surname Plaw had a sister named Elizabeth
1881 census: Sarah Wall/s Plaw born circa 1869 Liverpool Lancs (who married William Coward - see my previous post) father was John H Plaw born Chelsea. I couldn't easily get back further from here, but there is no sister called Elizabeth.
John Plaw ( see previous post) married Leah Roylance Hazlehurst) I found in 1891 in Runcorn (Warrington is the district for these registrations at this time). Again I couldn't easily find him any further back.
Regards
Kathb
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Hi, Jenni, the next epistle in the saga.
Looking at the adoptive parents to see if Peter Bickley (resident of St. Annes Street as noted by Kgarrad) has married a Plaw - sorry doesn't look like it, although there maybe another family connection I have not pursued. There are four marriages on Cheshirebmd for a Bickley with a Jane, none of these in the period 1864 to 1868 show a last name of Plaw.
In 1871 the Bickley family show in Black Diamond Street, Chester. They have a daughter Elizabeth aged 4 with them. I thought this might be a connection. You will have to rule this one out though. There is a possible marriage on Cheshirebmd for an Elizabeth Bickley to a George Colley in the period 1881 to 1885.
There are some real experts here on Rootschat, who are absolutely brilliant at finding people with mistranscriptions. I suggest that you post on the Census discussion board and ask if anyone can find Elizabeth.
Good Hunting
Regards
Kathb
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Does anyone know how to check who was living at that address in 1881 and 1891, in case it was a family member of Elizabeth? :-\
In the 1881 census, the occupants of 128 St Ann Street were Peter & Margaret Bickley, and their 3 children.
In 1891 the family at 128 St Anne Street is Rebecca Overington, Widow, of London and her 6 children
Thanks KG. No obvious connection unfortunately. You're doing a great job Kath, but as there's virtually nothing to go on, it's very difficult to locate Elizabeth. I had a look on the 1881 yesterday but came up with nothing concrete. :(
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Thanks everyone for your posts, it seems like Elizabeth is being almost impossible to find.
I have Charles' marriage and death certificate and has John as his father on both with no mother mentioned on either. His marriage certificate is another mystery. His wife, Annie Feeley, is listed as 27, no occupation, of Maybury Lodge, Queens Park, Chester with William Feeley as her father. I can find nothing on Annie or her parents, but I will keep on poking about hopefully something will turn up
Jenni
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Ok, so Charles is obviously illegitimate ... did he know this?. Did he marry as Plaw (rather as Thomas)? Did he say his father was John Thomas, or just John?
How do you know that he went to live with them when he was 5? Where did he spend the first years of his life? :-\
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Charles Plaw Thomas was listed on the 1891 census as a visitor to the household of John and Jane Thomas at age 5 and then on the 1901 census as their son. He used Plaw Thomas his whole life, even on his marriage certificate in 1911 and on the Australian electoral rolls, but if he did know of his origins he never told his children. John Thomas was listed as Charles' father on his marriage and death certificate.
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Hi Jenni, John and Jane appear to be a very benevolent couple, as I see on the 1901 they have another child Annie Williams aged 5 b Chester, also shown as adopted.
Keyboard86
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Hi, Jenni, Given that there is no obvious marriage or death, have you looked to see if you can find Elizabeth on any ships lists emigrating? The other possibility is that she was already married to someone other than Charles's natural father when he was born. She is most certainly an elusive character.
I do hope you eventually find her.
Regards
Kathb
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I did even consider the possibility of Elizabeth using an alias when she had Charles, but Plaw is such an unusual name that that's not a very likely scenario. This shows the distribution of the surname:
http://gbnames.publicprofiler.org/