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General => Technical Help => Topic started by: elin on Tuesday 12 July 11 16:06 BST (UK)
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I have had Virgin Landline and Broadband, I can't get cable where I now live.
My broadband is very unreliable and the telephone line is often very unclear.
Is there anything that I can buy to boost the signal?
Thanks,
Elin
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Hi. Your best bet is to establish what speed broadband your service provider claims to offer you at your location. Their website or help desk should be able to tell you. Then run a speed test using one of the many websites that provide this e.g. http://www.broadbandspeedchecker.co.uk/ This will show you what the actual speed you're experiencing is.
If your telephone line is often unclear, there may simply be a fault on the line that is causing the problem. Your provider should be able check that out for you.
It can sometimes be the case that a lot of broadband signals in the same area cause interference with each other, leading to a reduced quality and speed. Your broadband provider should be able to adjust your modem settings for you to reduce the chances of a clash.
In short, talk to your ISP and/or phone company i.e. Virgin in your case by the sound of it.
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You can't boost the signal, but often there are things you can do to improve it. Quite a lot of problems with broadband are caused by poor extension wiring. Before broadband came along, it didn't really matter how untidy the wiring was, but broadband changes all that. Broadband uses the same frequencies as AM (Medium Wave) radio, and if you have a lot of extension wiring in your house, it will act as an aerial, and it will pull in a lot of signals that will interfere with the broadband signal.
If you have an NTE-5 type phone socket (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_telephone_sockets for a picture of one) it will have a removable front plate that should disconnect all the extension wiring when the front plate is removed (if it is installed correctly), and when the front plate is off, there is a 'test socket' that you can plug a phone or broadband router into for testing purposes. What you should do is to note the connection speed when the router is connected normally, and then remove the NTE-5 front plate and plug the router directly into the socket revealed under the plate, and then note the connection speed again. If you see an improvement in speed, then the extension wiring is affecting your speeds. The best thing to do if this is happening is to buy an iPlate, or a filtered faceplate. The Wiki page I linked to shows how to fit an iPlate, and the filtered faceplate replaces the removable faceplate on the NTE-5. It's vital that if you use a filtered faceplate, you connect your router to the ADSL output of the plate with no long wiring runs. The other advantage of the filtered faceplate is that you do not need separate filters connected to your phones - they are merely directly connected to the PHONE output of the filtered faceplate.
If doing the above doesn't improve things, then it's not your wiring. Try dialling 17070 (UK only) and then select 2 for a 'quiet line test'. You should not be hearing much in the way of clicks, pops or hissing noises. If you are getting a lot of these, then you should report it to your phone company as a voice fault (not a broadband fault).
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The problem could I think even be with the handset itself.
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If it is a line fault, this can take ages as Virgin are only acting as agents for in your case BT.
As has been said earlier, removing the cover and pluging in your ADSL equipment direct will be a truer test of the connection to the outside world.
Brian
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Thank you very much everybody!!
Ottobottle, I went onto the Virgin Help Desk and although I didn't find out what broadband speed I am supposed to be receiving, I did find Virgin Media Home Support. I downloaded this and it checked my settings and made some corrections. It did seem a bit zippier straight away although still not good. I will contact Virgin as you suggest.
Nick, I will talk very nicely to my son and get him to check my wiring and do the test that you suggest. I tried the 'quiet line test' and it was actually was very quiet!
Redroger, you could well be right about my handset, it is quite ancient! I have a new one winging it's way to me from Amazon. :)
Oh Brian, life is so complicated these days!
Thanks, Elin
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Though I forget the name of the term, a normal landline can take a number of appliances with a total loading of 5. After that the quality of the call badly deteriorates. A modern phone has a rating of less than 1, so without dificulty you could have up to 5 hand sets on the line without difficulty. However, older handsets have a far higher rating, the older the set the higher in general, so it could well be this causing the problem.
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Ah well, I have two handsets and as I say I have had them a few years, so you could well be right. It's a good excuse to get new phones anyway! :)
Thanks, Elin
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The truth of the matter is there can be many reasons for your slow speed. The vast majority [but not all] Broadband speed issues reside in the home with the end user's internal wiring. You should follow advice already given by isolating your internal wire from the external line at the NTE5A. You should contact your CP [Communications Provider] as already stated and they should liaise with you and despatch an Openreach engineer, if required, to look at the problem, either telephone line or Broadband but bear in mind if the fault is Broadband related and your CP sends out an Openreach engineer on a phone/voice fault he/she will not be able to look at your Broadband connection so it’s important you are clear about what they are coming to look at, please understand that.
With regard to the number of appliances that can be connected to the line at one time. The term is REN = Ringer Equivalence Number. In the UK the max REN = 4. Normal phones will have a REN of 1 but other appliances could have say 1.5. There are devices [ringing generators] which can increase the total REN to 8. However, I really doubt very much that that is your issue.
Regards
Hugh
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Thank you Hugh, I'll get my son to look at this thread and follow the advice
and also get my new phones in use. I should then have a clearer idea of
what the problems are and get more help if I need it.
Cheers,
Elin
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Hi
Virgin's "preferred" speed test is "speedtest.net".
This will show what you are actually getting ....
(do not take the first test result but keep a tot of what you get)
... not what you are contracted for.
The ex-BT engineers (et al) on the site are correct, however your modem/router is likely (off) the first point on the connection in and therefore not likely to be (so) affected by REN.
If your "broadband" (as you call it) is a wireless signal "inside" your home then the problem may well be caused by the building make-up of your "home". Simple things like you have placed the w/l router near/next to a freezer / metal filing cabinet / metal shelving / "upandover" garage doors/ the castle walls ............... :o :o
or your coronet or throne! ::)
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Simple things like you have placed the w/l router near/next to a freezer / metal filing cabinet / metal shelving / "upandover" garage doors/ the castle walls ............... :o :o
or your coronet or throne! ::)
Not everyone's as rich as you Ray ;D
Did you manage to spend your lottery winnings okay?
3 quid wasn't it LOL
Carol
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£3? Big celebration?
That only buys a half-pint of beer in my local!
£6 a pint of beer they call R.I.P. but it is 13%
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Though I forget the name of the term, a normal landline can take a number of appliances with a total loading of 5. After that the quality of the call badly deteriorates. A modern phone has a rating of less than 1, so without dificulty you could have up to 5 hand sets on the line without difficulty. However, older handsets have a far higher rating, the older the set the higher in general, so it could well be this causing the problem.
Sorry, Roger, but the thing you're talking about (the REN = Ring Equivalence Number) only affects the phone's ability to ring. If people want a lot of phones in the house, I'd advise them to get a set of DECT phones which have only one base unit connected to the line, and all the other phones just sit on charger bases which are not connected to the phone line directly. That way you don't need phone extensions, and the REN is kept to a low number.
You can also improve the performance of ADSL simply by disconnecting all the ring wires from extensions at both ends. There's lots of useful information here (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/socket.htm)
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Hi
Virgin's "preferred" speed test is "speedtest.net".
This will show what you are actually getting ....
(do not take the first test result but keep a tot of what you get)
... not what you are contracted for.
The ex-BT engineers (et al) on the site are correct, however your modem/router is likely (off) the first point on the connection in and therefore not likely to be (so) affected by REN.
If your "broadband" (as you call it) is a wireless signal "inside" your home then the problem may well be caused by the building make-up of your "home". Simple things like you have placed the w/l router near/next to a freezer / metal filing cabinet / metal shelving / "upandover" garage doors/ the castle walls ............... :o :o
or your coronet or throne! ::)
Thanks for the advice Ray, my router isn't placed near to any of the objects that you mention. Maybe it is the huge silver casket of gold coins that I keep stored next to it, I take great delight in running my hands through them of an evening. :)
Both my phone and router however are on the tv cabinet, could there be interference from them?
Luckily Nick, the phones that I have ordered are DECT phones, although I didn't know what that signified!
Elin
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Elin
Are you in a position to tell us what result you managed to get on speedtest.net.
All you have to do is click on 'green arrow'.
Write down download figures then upload figures.
We are all waiting ::)
Brian
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Hi Brian,
Sorry to keep the nation on tenterhooks!!
The figures are Ping 73ms ??? Download speed 3.36 mbps upload 0.45 mbps
What do you think?
Thanks, Elin
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Thanks Nick, it is REN of course (incipient senility again!) my brother had an ancient reproduction phone which his wife insisted on keeping. Neither nor anyone else could hear him on that phone, BT told me it was due to it having a high REN. Perhaps they were just trying to get rid of me.
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Download speed 3.36 mbps upload 0.45 mbps
You must be a fair way from the local telephone exchange (I get 2.8mbps and I am about 2.8 miles from the exchange).
That said, those figures will give you a reasonable level of service for most web based usage. Not good for online gaming though !
Harry
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Hi Elin
You may be getting that speed but what speed are you paying for?
Try taking the speedtest a few times over the next few days and ensure that speedtest keeps a log (It is an option). You'll then have something to wave at Virgin.
73ms sounds like an abnormal ("long") ping to me.
"Normality" for "home" contracts is upload around "1/10" speed of down.
R
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Elin hails from Leeds, given that she is checking her connection to Manchester I would think a ping in the order of 20-25ms would be the norm.
Mind you 4meg down and nearly 1/2 meg up is reasonable.
(Can you repeat the test before retiring for the night and again in the morning)
Just checked mine - looking at 15ms for a cable connection which is quicker?
What is it like when you have updates from Microsoft.
Brian
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Thanks all. :)
Brian, I will repeat the test tonight and in the morning as you suggest.
I'm a bit confused because when I check my connection status it tells me that it is 54.0 mbps. That doesn't seem to me to relate to the figures from the speed test. It also tells me that my connection is excellent or very good even when I can't get a connection. ???
When I have updates from Microsoft, I go off and make a cup of coffee and
find something to do to occupy myself. Sometimes I have to start again because
my connection comes and goes.
Elin
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The 54.0mbps is the speed at which the data is transmitted - Usually indicated on local area connection.
(Nothing to do with download speed)
Next time you download something, watch the rate at which the data comes to your computer.
Usually there is a small box opening that tells you at what rate you are downloading and how much more of the total download is still to do.
Brian
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Ah thank you Brian!! I totally misunderstood that :-[
Elin
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"Mind you 4meg down and nearly 1/2 meg up is reasonable."
... not for a 10mb (or greater) isp connection be it cable or copper based.
(54 is the target/design/spec speed of your kit(w/l) not your isp connection)
You are paying £/$"x" pm for what "speed" 2mbps? 4mbps 10mbps 30/40/50mbps 100mbps?
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The quote '4meg down and nearly 1/2meg up' is in the context of not slow.
It really depends on what 'up to speed' Erin has been quoted for.
(I am on 10meg down 1meg up- 9.8meg down 1.1meg up actual)
As you say if she is on anything in excess of up to say 6meg, the connection is slow depending on contention ratio.
Brian
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Hi Brian,
My speedtest reading last night was
Down load 0.79mb/s and Upload 0.70 mb/s
This morning it was
Download 1.91mb/s and 0.72mb/s
I will have another go at trying to find out what I am paying for.
Elin
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Thanks everyone,
You have given me the confidence to phone Virgin! ::)
They checked the reading from their end and I should have been getting
7.3 download and 0.8 upload. On the receiving end it was 1.91 and 0.72.
They have sent me an email with a lot of checks to carry out and I need to get back to them if I do them all to no affect.
I don't understand them all ??? but hopefully my son will when he has time to have a look for me.
Thank you, :)
Elin
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Elin, you really need to find out what speed your router is connected to your phone line at. Speed tests will be influenced by what your computer is doing - many of us are oblivious to what our computers are doing in the background - downloading email, getting new virus definitions, downloading Windows updates, etc - and if your computer is doing any of these, it will affect any speed test. Broadband is also a shared service, so the download speed you get at any given time will be affected by how many other people you are competing with.
Getting the 'line stats' from your router is done in a slightly different way for each brand of router. If you follow this link (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/frogstats.php) it will give you instructions on how to get the stats from a wide range of router models.
The most important numbers are :
- Sync Speed (sometimes called 'Line Rate') - this will be two numbers, giving the connection speed in both directions
- SNR Margin - this is a number representing the amount of unwanted signals on the line. It should ideally be no larger than 6dB. A larger number would suggest instability on the line.
- Line Attenuation - the amount that the signal is being reduced by the line length and the quality of the cables. The lower the number, the better.
A high SNR margin (more than 6dB) could indicate that the internal house phone wiring is picking up AM MW radio signals, and these signals are always stronger at night. It could also indicate the presence of noise caused by faulty or wet cable joints in the network, or picked up from other sources of interference.
It's important to do these tests twice - once in normal usage, and once in the 'test socket' which was mentioned in one of my earlier posts, to establish whether the faults are in the house phone wiring (which is your responsibility), or the comms provider's wiring (e.g. BT), which is their responsibility.
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Thanks for the link Nick.
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Thank you very much Nick! I have checked the link to find my router but it
doesn't seem to be listed.
I'm a bit of a technophobe :o but I am going to print out this thread along with the email from Virgin and hope my son will take a look at the weekend.
Thanks :)
Elin
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Quite often the bigger companies use routers which are made especially for them, although the innards are often the same as off-the-shelf models. Routers also usually have their own web pages for setting them up, which are usually accessed by putting their local address in your browser, and this address is typically 192.168.0.1 or 192.168.1.1 or 192.168.1.254.
I notice you mention that you get your service via Virgin - this could be part of the problem - Virgin is one of the companies that are known to throttle speeds at peak times. You might get a better service if your exchange has services which are 'LLU unbundled' (i.e. not a BT service being resold by someone else). These unbundled services include O2, Bethere (BE), Sky and AOL, and they tend to work better than re-badged BT products (I'm using BE, incidentally).
You can find out what LLU services are available at your exchange by visiting http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange_search - just type your town name into the box.
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Hi Nick,
Thank you, you are a mine of information!! I checked the Link to find out what LLU services are available at my exchange and it told me that my nearest exchange is Morley which is very nearby. Are you saying that Virgin might not be using that exchange?
I am probably stuck with Virgin for at least another seven months or so because of my contract.
I wasn't able to check out the router web page because my connection cut out each time I tried. I'll have another go at that later today.
Thank you so much for all your help, it is really kind! :)
Elin
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Erin, there are two sorts of ADSL broadband that most people can get in the UK via a copper phone line.
The first thing you have to know is that in the beginning of broadband, the only company that supplied it was BT, and other companies complained about BT's monopoly, so Ofcom forced BT to sell its product at wholesale rates to those who wished to re-badge and re-sell it.
So, the first sort is of broadband was either a BT product (like BT Broadband) or a re-badged BT product which the ISP buys from BT Wholesale, and re-badges with their own name. You can get these products at any BT exchange because they are BT products. Because both BT and your ISP (e.g. Virgin) are making a profit, you are less likely to get as good a deal as you would get from BT themselves, because you have a 'middle man'.
The other sort of broadband is what us known as 'unbundled' or 'LLU'. LLU came into being because it was ruled that re-selling BT products again gave BT a sort of monopoly, and BT were forced to allow equipment from other suppliers into their exchanges. LLU doesn't use BT's exchange equipment, and it does not use BT's optical fibres for distribution - it uses the ISP's own network.
The snag is that some BT exchanges don't have enough physical space to accomodate the equipment owned by other ISP's, so not all LLU providers will be available at all exchanges. If you look up your exchange using the link that I provided, you will see a list at the bottom right showing all the LLU services that are available at your exchange. Note that you can search for your exchange by phone number, and it's not safe to assume that you will be connected to the nearest exchange ???
Virgin do both a re-badged BT and an LLU product, and if they have an 'LLU presence' at your exchange, they may well allow you to transfer to their LLU product without any financial penalties. But you won't know unless you ask :)