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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Yorkshire (West Riding) Lookup Requests => Yorkshire (West Riding) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) Completed Requests => Topic started by: Nick Hill on Tuesday 12 July 11 10:36 BST (UK)
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Looking for any info on John William Sumpner born 1854 leeds and married Selina scarborough in leeds 1887
Any census info on either John or Selena would be great
thanks
Nick
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1861 census of Headingley - RG9/Piece: 3354 Folio: 41 Page: 8 @ Cardigan Square
Thomas Sumpner 52 (Married) Head of Household, born Lancs - Preston: a Corn Miller
Ann E Sumpner 26 dau Yorks, Leeds
Thos Sumpner 20 son ditto : a Corn Miller
John W Sumpner 6 son ditto: a Scholar
Alfred Sumpner 3 son ditto
By 1871, mum has reappeared and seems to be married to a James Bramfit?
1871 census of Headingley with Burley - RG10/Piece: 4573 Folio: 36 Page: 16 @ Park Row
James Bramfit 40 Haed of Household born Yorks, Kirkstall: a Gardener Journeyman
Ann Elizh Bramfit 39 Wife born Leeds
John Wm Sumpner 15 Stepson born Leeds: a Boot & Shoe Maker
Alfred Sumpners 13 Stepson ditto: Gardener
Elizabeth Bramfit 6 dau Kirkstall
James Bramfit 5 son ditto
Mary Ann Bramfit 3 dau ditto
Martha Bramfit 1 dau ditto
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Thanks Mort29
seems i've been chasing these guys from Yorks to lancs and back again!!
anything in the 1871 to confirm this family?
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See above for 1871.
John & Selina are already together in 1881 - RG11; Piece: 4540; Folio: 116; Page: 12 in Headingley cum Burley @ 7 Springfield Place
John W. Sumpner 26 Head born Leeds: a Shoe Rivetter
Selena Sumpner 25 Wife born Kirkstall
Thomas Sumpner 4 son ditto
Alfred Sumpner 2 son ditto
Guess you meant 1877, not 1887 marriage?
Marriages Jun 1877
Scarborough Selina Leeds 9b 480
Scarfcrough Selina Leeds 9b 480
SUMPNER John William Leeds 9b 480
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A large family for John and Selina
Very difficut to read the occupations as marks all over them.
I'll take a longer look.
1901 RG13/4247/94/31
23 Kirkshill Lane
John Wm Sumpner 46 Boot riveter bootmaker
Selina 46
Thomas22 Forge labourer
Alfred 20 Grdener market
Ada 18 Domstic servanr
John 16 Mule pilcen? Woollen
Lily 15 Dom serv
Harry 13 tenner?
Etty 11
Willie 9
Miria 5
Annie 3
William Armitage 27 boarder dyer
All born Leeds
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marriage;
groom; john william sumpner
age; 22
status; bachelor
occ; shoemaker
father; james branfoot?
fathers occ; market gardener
address at time of marr; kirkstall
bride; selina scarborough
age; 22
status; spinster
father; david fontes?
fathers occ; gardener
address at time of marr; kirkstall
witnesses; albert adams and susanna carr
date of marr; may 19th 1877
place; st.stephens church,kirkstall
strange: both bride and grooms fathers names
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I think Selina was using the name Broadbent in 1871 - RG10/ Piece: 4573 Folio: 48 Page: 39 - Headingley with Burley
all state PoB as Kirkstall - and she's the only Selina in the area of the correct age ...
David F Broadbent 32 Head Labourer
Elizabeth Broadbent 33 Wife
Selina Broadbent 16 dau
Henrietta Broadbent 12 dau
James W Broadbent 5 son
This may be why -
Marriages Dec 1858
Broadbent David Leeds 9b 348
Kirk Henry Leeds 9b 348
Lambert George Leeds 9b 348
Scarbrough Betsey Leeds 9b 348
SCARBROUGH Betsy Leeds 9b 348
Sutcliffe Maria Bradford Yk 9b 348
Watson Elizabeth Leeds 9b 348
But having looked at the 1861 census for Kirkstall et al, I'm confused - as there is a Mary Selina Broadbent.
Birth Index entries too exist for both a Maria Selina Broadbent and a Selina plus a Selina Ann Scarbrough - 3 different people ?!
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Birth Selina Winn Scarbrough March 1/4 1855 Hunslet Yorkshire vol 9b page 235
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Thanks for the quick responses
You may be right about the change of name and would make sense why she dissapear of the face of the earth in 1871 ;)
I had her birth down as Kirkstall, Yorks (KIRK/26/295) is this same as hunslett 9b page 235?
So at least I know think have the mother
But why would John W marriage cert say fathers name Branfoot? Sorry just re-read first post and I guess it said Bramfit
more digging to do i guess
many thanks
nick
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But why would John W marriage cert say fathers name Branfoot?
see the 1871 census where John is the Stepson of said Mr B .....
ah, a quick edit there fellah! :P
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where does the father of selina david fontes come into this
the only time that name appears in any records is the marriage entry
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Really bad transcript error????
P.s sorry mort about the edit
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wasnt complaining ! ;)
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Any ideas on where to go next with this family?
Nick
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1861 census of Headingley - RG9/Piece: 3354 Folio: 41 Page: 8 @ Cardigan Square
Thomas Sumpner 52 (Married) Head of Household, born Lancs - Preston: a Corn Miller
Ann E Sumpner 26 dau Yorks, Leeds
Thos Sumpner 20 son ditto : a Corn Miller
John W Sumpner 6 son ditto: a Scholar
Alfred Sumpner 3 son ditto
By 1871, mum has reappeared and seems to be married to a James Bramfit?
1871 census of Headingley with Burley - RG10/Piece: 4573 Folio: 36 Page: 16 @ Park Row
James Bramfit 40 Haed of Household born Yorks, Kirkstall: a Gardener Journeyman
Ann Elizh Bramfit 39 Wife born Leeds
John Wm Sumpner 15 Stepson born Leeds: a Boot & Shoe Maker
Alfred Sumpners 13 Stepson ditto: Gardener
Elizabeth Bramfit 6 dau Kirkstall
James Bramfit 5 son ditto
Mary Ann Bramfit 3 dau ditto
Martha Bramfit 1 dau ditto
Think there may be a mix up here as looking at the 1861 again it says ann eliz is thomas Daughter not wife????
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Yes, I transcribed 'dau', as that is what the original handwritten page says .... but now I look more closely, Ann E. is 26 - and only 39 with the same forenames in the 1871 when married to Mr B - so I wonder if it is the same person, and should in fact be wife back in 1861??
If she IS Thomas' daughter as stated in the 1861, then given the ages of John & Alfred, and their stepson status in 1871, she may well be thier mother anyway.....
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Thats what I was thinking and maybe the sons should be transcribed and grandsons??
cheers
Nick
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yes, would also explain no marriage of a Thos S I could see.
The census has many examples of incorrect relationships that become obvious when researched more fully .... I guess there was an element of concealment of 'unsavoury' facts :P
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I couldn't see Thomas & family back in 1851, but there were other Sumpners in that area who were also Corn Millers ....
But 'mum' is there in 1841.
HO107/Piece 1343/Book: 3 Folio: 40; Page: 28 Leeds, Sheffield Street
Thomas Sumpner 30 Corn Miller
Elizabeth Sumpner 30
Ann Sumpner 9
Thomas Sumpner 1
PS. Just noticed that in 1881, John W is enumerated both with Selina/Selena as Household Head, and with Stepfather and his Mother's family (shown married tho')
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Many thanks Mort
I think the ordering of some birth certs is required to bottom this issue
seems like a bit of a family trait having children out of wedlock ::)
still you've moved me on along way so many thanks again
Nick
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cant do it under the terms of the sub I have.
Get yourself a 2 week free trial, and you can make a pass thru saving all the entries you've seen referenced :)
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No Worries
thanks for all the help so far
Nick
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One final thing Mort (sorry dont' know your real name ;))
did you find selina in 1861 census?
cheers
Nick
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only a lass who m a y be her - see original posts
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Sorry getting late here ;D
I have her down as a Selina Winn Scarborough in my tree but don't have relevant cert to hand to double check.
So maybe could rule out selina ann and mary selina?
Also take a stab at her mother being a Winn?
cheers
Nick
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You will have to eliminate by getting Certs - but it does look like Mr Broadbent married a Scarbrough ....
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Sorry getting late here ;D
I have her down as a Selina Winn Scarborough in my tree but don't have relevant cert to hand to double check.
So maybe could rule out selina ann and mary selina?
Also take a stab at her mother being a Winn?
cheers
Nick
Hi my name is claire barraclough sumpner....please feel free to contact me re the sumpner family.