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Research in Other Countries => Canada => Topic started by: lilyJ on Tuesday 12 July 11 01:04 BST (UK)
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This distant relative was born in 1875 in Ovingham , Northumberland, UK and I have him in the 1881 1891 and 1901 UK Censuses.
I idly googled him today and found him in the Canadian War Memorial sites and then the CWCG site.
I downloaded his attestation papers on the Canadian NA site. He is indexed under Frank Gilchrist but the front page gives his name as Frank Ismay Gilchrest.
I woould really appreciate any help anyone can give me on trying to sort out what he was doing in Canada until he joined up at Valcartier in 1914.
As he stated on his attestation, he was previously in the Imperial Yeomanry for 2 years. They were formed to fight in the second Boer war 1899-1902. Frank Ismay Gilchrist is lised on their nominal rolls, so that part is true.
However, he has taken 5 years off his age on his attestation (not uncommon I think) and gives a incorrect place of birth (Berwick, Scotland).
I can't find him in the 1911 Canada census. He is not the Frank Gilchrist with wife Florence in Brompton Quebec as I found this couple going to the UK in 1935.
I have looked at the passenger lists and can't really pick him out.
NOK on the attestation papers is Annie Blanch Arnett of Johns St., North Bay
My request is:Could anyone please help me find Annie Blanch Arnett in the hopes that it might lead to more information on Frank Gilchrist?
Thanks
lilyj
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There is a Frank Gilchrist b 1879 left Liverpool for Montreal in 1903.
http://www.ancestorsonboard.com/HomePageController.action
Is Annie on the 1911 Canadian census?
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Thanks Carole W,
I have that one on standby. The age is out and his occupation is Engineer.
On his attestation FIG 's occupation is "Bridgeman(wood)"
On the 1901 UK census where he is transcribed as F J Gilchrist and living in Newcastle his occupation is Br**d Manafacturer. I can't make out the first word. I thought bread at first, but surely it would say baker if he manafactured bread!
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Aren't enumerators helpful?? A thick black line right through his occupation
Interestingly - his father was a mining engineer
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His brother was a mining engineer too on the census after the 1901
Boy you are quick!
Thanks so much
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Annie Blanch Arnett is listed in an Ontario Directory...but don't have access to it. Perhaps someone can she where she was at that time...as I don't see her in 1911 in Nippising...She may even have been the person who owned a boarding house where he's stayed...
Tried multiple things and still don't see frank in 1911 either...
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Thanks for looking JJ.
Do you know if it was common for men to sign up in Valcartier even if they didn't live near there?
Sorry if that's a silly question, but I read that the military camp only opened in August 1914 so I was thinking that men might have gone there rather than locally to enlist early in the war as Gilchrist did.
Most of the attestations I have seen were signed locally to where the men lived, but again they tended to be a bit later in the war.
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I have an ancestor whose husband signed up with the 8th Canadians, even though he was English as was his wife. He died in England in 1918 from war wounds and his wife remained in England until her death in 1970. Presumably, he was the subject of the story that she had married a Canadian soldier - even though he was English.
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It was extremely common for men to enlist at Valcartier early in the war. There were a lot of new British immigrants with no real roots in Canada that volunteered to serve early in the war. Please remember that the CEF was Canadian and soldiers were from many countries but served as Canadian soldiers. If you were born in England/Scotland/Ireland etc. and volunteered with the CEF, you were considered a Canadian soldier. All service records for the soldiers are at Library and Archives Canada and you can obtain the complete military file on each soldier that served. Using the information from the Attestation Papers, you can order his file. It will contain 25-50 pages and the documents will be pay, medical, battalion information. It will have next of kin and when the battalion left for Europe and returned as well as where the soldier was heading on debarkation. There could be other info in the file as well. I have ordered 3 files at a cost of $66 for all and they were well worth the cost.
www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/index-e.html
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I had a look at the attestation papers and didn't think the NOK last name was Arnett. Looked more like Hinett to me so went looking for directories for North Bay.
http://northbayhistory.homestead.com
Annie Hinett (wid Chas), 186 John
then I went to
http://automatedgenealogy.com
Ontario/Nippissing/1911 census
Mrs Annie Hinett, head, widow, b. July 1869, age 41, England, immigrated 1882
all children born in Ontario
Daughters Flossie, Blanche, Lillian, Hazel and Stella
Son Victor
She doesn't have any boarders in 1911 but that could have changed or she may have been related to Frank in some way.
I still haven't found him on the census but depending on what work he was doing and if he was moving around following the work he may have been missed on the census or mistranscribed.
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You may not have a lot of luck finding Frank in Canada. If you order his military file you will probably be able to find the regiment and battalion that he served with. Piecing the info together with the War diaries that are available at Library and Archives Canada, you may be able to find the battle where he died. Most of the Canadian battalions merged or were absorbed with others upon arriving in England before heading for France. The War Diaries are available to read on line.
If he was in any of the casualty stations or field hospitals before he died, that will be in his military file. My grandfather spent 11 days in casualty stations and field hospitals before being sent back to hospital in England.
One of the best sites for CEF research is the Matrix Project
www.cefresearch.com/matrix/contents.htm
Hope this information helps some.
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According to the CWGC, Frank died on 22/04/1915 at Ypres.
I went to the War Diaries to see what was happening with the 15th Battalion on that day.
Go to the site that I listed for the Matrix Project
click on the 15th Battalion
then Libarary and Archives Canada (WD Link)
# 2, images associated with this entry, page 26
doesn't give the names of the deceased but gives an idea of what the men went through.
Val
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Yes that's a good point lilyJ ...My Grandfather was living in B.C. but signed up in Valcartier...
Valerie, I think you have something there, as if the witness was the same writer, then his "A"s are script.
Frank took five years off his age to not be rejected as an old man.
http://data2.archives.ca/cef/gpc004/346956a.gif
However the advice from valerie to order the complete file to find more information is the best way to go, as we can't find him anywhere in Canada, so he may have been very badly misstranscribed, or the census damaged. N.O.K. may be also explained in there as they were to make a mini will. It's a crapshoot, but if not many documents, the price won't be too steep.
( also, valerie, well put that those who signed up were Canadians...these men came here to work and live, and signed up as Canadians )
J.J.
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You were so right, valerie, as daughter Blanch on the 1901 called herself Annie Blanche Hinett when she married James Henry Mcnair / parents Charles Thos Hinett & Annie (Mathews ) ...
Parhaps he was pretraining in North Bay ... J.J.
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Thanks so much valerie and jj. Brilliant find , valerie ,on the NOK surname and lots of resources to check out.
I will have something more important than yard work to do this morning!
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While looking for more on him, I saw his medal/nominal rolls as corporal ...another site mentions the men who fell on the same day...then someone posted this when looking for regiment from the names on a photo (48th Highlanders of Canada) Hmmmm that's what happens when you sign up as a scotsman! so sign up and see the images....
http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=151423
http://wwii.ca/memorial/world-war-i/49576/private-frank-ismay-gilchrist/
http://regimentalrogue.com/battlehonours/bathnrinf/32-48highrs.htm
http://www.greatwar.co.uk/battles/second-ypres-1915/prelude/british-battle-order-second-ypres.htm
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If his NOK was the daughter Blanche,it is possible that they may have been engaged. At the beginning of the war, most men thought they would be gone for only a few months and looked at the whole thing as an adventure. Most of the men made pay alotments to their NOK. I think it would be worth the money to order the file and see what is in it. I was very pleased with everything that was in the files that I ordered.
Good work JJ on the sites that you found.
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Thank you both so much.
I have joined the Great War Forum, and am about to send for the file
I too had thought about a potential relationship with Annie Blanche.
The Hinett family is on a family tree on ancestry. However the connection to the rather large tree is through Annie Blanche's husband so unlikely the tree owner would know anything.
Valerie and jj- I do so appreciate your help. Thanks again
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If everything looks right, you can ask for permission from the photo owner to repost the image here
http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/sub.cfm?source=collections/virtualmem/image&casualty=1592443
( note that the plaque at st. Mary the virgin chuch has him as dying April 24th)
Good work JJ on the sites that you found.
and you as well, valerie ;D
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Good idea , jj. Thanks
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I am working on a project about Ovingham and district men who died in WW1 and WW2. Although Frank Gilchrist is not mentioned on the War Memorial, I am including him because of the plaque in the church. If you would be willing to share any of your research on Frank with this project, that would be very helpful. There are 26 names on the war memorial, 13 war graves in the cemetery (only a few of them matching names on the war memorial), and at least 8 other men mentioned on family headstones, so there is quite a bit to do for a small village.
Thankyou if you feel able to share anything, but just reading this thread has been good.
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Hi Manui
I am sending you a pm with my email address as I am more than willing to let you have any info I have. You can let me know what you need and I can supply what I have
lilyj
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I grew up in Sudbury. Val Cartier is not far from Sudbury.
They may have been working on the railroad, or this may
have been where the railway men would have found the ore.
However, ther are many Val Cartiers!