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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Dumfriesshire => Topic started by: emarbe on Monday 11 July 11 08:56 BST (UK)
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I am trying to find more information on the father of William Bryden, born 1839 in Johnstone Parish (William was my gt gt grandfather).
I've attached a copy of the birth record and on the 1841 census William is shown as Bryden, living with his mother's parents. I was hoping to find a reference to this misdemeanor (the parents weren't married) in the Kirk Sessions but have had no luck.
On William's marriage certificate in 1865 he shows his father as John Bryden - Ironmonger, but I can't find anything on Scotland or England census's to trace him.
I had a massive amount of help originally from MonicaL in tracing the birth, but after that, just a brick wall.
I don't need any help regarding the mother as I've managed to complete her side of the family.
Can anybody help please.
Mike
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Hi :)
I'm a bit confused as I see L.S at the beginning of the entry. This usually means lawful son . Are you sure that Jane and John were unmarried :-\
gnu
Added - just looked at a few pages of the Johnstone birth entries and most of them have either L S or L D before the parents names. This does suggest that John and Jane were married
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Hi gnu
Thank you for your interest.
I appreciate your comments, but I can find no marriage, also the same thing happened again in 1844 with Jane Dinwoodie & William Jamieson who had a daughter, although it does say "natural daughter" rather than LS, again I can find no marriage.
Mike
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Hi again
I've been going through your previous postings on William - you've been searching for a long while!
At the moment I can't find anything more than you and others have found except a possible for a John Bryden on the 1841 - not sure but worth following up:
Barton on Irwell HO107/542/3/36/17
John Bryden, 25. blacksmith, b. Scotland
Thinking of the link between blacksmithing and ironmongering and Barton on Irwell is not all that far from Liverpool.
(Added - just seen that this was found on one of your earlier threads)
Also, re marriages - a lot of Scottish marriages are unrecorded for various reasons (common law; non- C of S marriage, missing records, etc.) Trish, who was once a member of RC, estimated that only about 30% of marriages were recorded in the OPRs.
gnu
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Just so that anyone trying to help can see what's already been covered:
Oct 2006 http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,187618.0.html
Oct 2006 http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,193202.0.html
Jan 2007 http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,208803.0.html
Jan 2007 http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,208466.0.html
Aug 2007 http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,247669.0.html
As far as I can see, the most likely John seems to be the 1818 one, son of William Bryden and Grizel Thornburn.
Nothing else coming up on the censuses so far :-\
gnu
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Hi gnu
I quite agree that the William & Grizel as parents seem the most likely, the most frustrating thing is that I can't find anything to possitively identify John, it's very easy to guess!.
Mike
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, the most frustrating thing is that I can't find anything to possitively identify John, it's very easy to guess!. Mike
Mike, total sympathy. One of my major brick walls is a Brydon / Bryden in Johnstonebridge - Mary, wife of Robert Paterson and born sometime around 1757. I can find nothing in Johnstonebridge to identify her apart from her marriage, even though it is by no means an uncommon name in the area.
Not sure where you live but I know there are Bryden/Brydon graves in Johnstonebridge churchyard from around that time - too recent for my search, but possible for you? I'm not aware that they are collated anywhere for searching so it's a case of wandering around reading them. I don't live in SW Scotland but do pass there and spend time in the churchyard every so often - I'll try and note some of the Bryden details for you next time I'm there.
I'm bookmarking this thread so f I ever find anything that might help you I'll send it straight over: grateful if you would do the same if you ever break through your brickwall. Sorry this isn't more help, but like everyone else we can only keep slogging away.
p.s. saw your reply Mike, and next time I'm there I certainly will look, but it may be some months.
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Maggie1895
Nice to hear from someone else searching for Brydens.
Thank you very much for your offer of looking at the churchyard, anything will be most welcome as this is one part of the family I just can't seem to break. I am assuming that John was probably a similar age to Jane (1819) , and more than likely from the same area, but that's all I can do is assume.
I will certainly bookmark this thread and keep you posted IF I manage to find something.
Many thanks
Mike
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Hi Both
I've reviewed all the info that's been put up on all the threads that I've linked to. The latest info is that William might have been born in Moffat but nothing there.
I'm not sure that there is any proof that the one that Mike has found is correct. I'm not convincecd by the evidence (sorry Mike!). Reading the previous threads, they have all concluded the same.
We all have these problems. I've been trying to link up my own ancestors in this area for 8 years and have so far found nothing that isd real proof.
gnu
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Hi gnu
The William Bryden that I have is correct as I've traced the family to England and I also have the Will of his grandfather (Jane's father) and he is mentioned in detail on that together with his mother. I quite agree that it is very easy to find the wrong person, but I have enough documentary proof to convince me that I have the right one.
Mike
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I have photographs of all Bryden headstones at Johnstonebridge Churchyard if anyone would like a lookup or a copy of them.
Regards.
Lorna
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Hi,
Continuing the Bryden Theme. We have David Bryden born September 1804 at Elizatown, Parents William Bryden and Marion Cowan, he is not a lawful son, only son, whereas everyone else on the page is either LS or LD. We have found a birth of an Agnes Bryden also in Elizatown in January 1805, Father William, Mother Grizel Thorburn and she is a LD. Considering Elizatown was only about a dozen houses we are wondering if this could be the same William. In 1810 there is a birth of a Betty, LD Father James Lauder, Mother Marion Cowan and the entry below is Elizabeth, LD of William Bryden and Grizel Thorburn. David Bryden is my husbands 3x Gr. Grandfather and we would love to find an answer, we have a theory that William is Davids father, as he is listed on Davids death certificate and is a farmer which Grizel Thorburns husband was at Hartfield( about 2 mins walk from Elizatown). In Kirkpatrick Juxta Churchyard there is a headtone with James Bryden in Eliza who died May 1806 aged 76, also Janet Murray his wife who died 1806 aged 75, and it is erected by his sons William and John. In the 1790 Eyedraft of Elizatown there is a James Bryden staying there and we think he could be the William who married Grizels father. William and Grizel are buried in Johnstonebridge Churchyard.
Any help would be much appreciated.
Lorna