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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Down => Topic started by: doylers94 on Saturday 09 July 11 09:54 BST (UK)
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John and Isabella Hart are buried in Magheralin Old Cemetery 1827 and 1852 respectively. Their son David is baptised in Shankill COI Lurgan Armagh on 27th Oct 1799 though the family seemed to live around the Armagh Down border between 1799 and 1822 in Derrylisnahavel, Tullydagin and Kilmore.The minister at Johns burial is Magheralin COI and Isabella RC. Their childrens names are John, James, Thomas, David, Mary, Sarah (Sally) and Catherine. John jnr ? is present in the freeholder records at PRONI for Derrylisnahavil. David married an Elizabeth and is buried in the Dougher Lurgan 1876 from Turmoyra. I am pursuing potential Down connections to this family as other Harts from Dromara are buried in the same graveyard and an Alexander Hart was born to Alexander Hart in 1740 in a nearby townland of Ballymcbredan (recorded Magheralin COI). I have baptismal dates for all of John and Isabellas children so I am just trying to connect with other Hart researchers in this geographical area.
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snap my harts are from ballygargan near Magheralin they would have attended seagoe parish then Knocknamuckly I i know that john hart married hannah tuft but not sure were belive that it would have been between 1810 and 1815 i know that their son george was born 1816 and several other children after that i know that john died before the 1857 knockmuckly cencus but not an actual date or who his parents are maybe Magheralin might be worth a look
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not sure if there is a Knocknamuckley connection but wouldnt rule it out at this stage :)
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try Maheralin Presbyterian - they are definetly not COI I have their entries - only about 8 in total and I can scan them to you when I get home
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I notice in the Freeholders Records referring to John Hart in Derrylishavel, are before and after John Snr's death. Is that why you think John Junior occupied this land, or was it passed on?
I have been confused as to why their children were baptised in Lurgan when the family appeared to live in the Magheralin area. Could the change in religion be related to Catholic Emancipation.? The name James and Thomas are new names to our tree do you know if they have any descendants?
Many Thanks
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Many people from the Magheralin area were baptised in all the Lurgan Churches I have seen records for. And many more changed churches on a regular basis. In this case Catholic emancipation may have contributed but I have a hunch that Isabella may have originally been RC as her children start getting conditional baptisms in St Peters RC Lurgan after John Harts death?? Are you connected to this line?
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Yes - through the David's, you helped me loads last year, but I ve been spending months on my husband's family, which has been very interesting.
These new developments that you have found open up a whole load possibilities now. I have been reading round the history of the Church at the time and history of the local area too. I remember you thought David's wealth did not quite add up. Was he the oldest son, therefore inheriting wealth?
If the aim of penal times was to spread the state religion then it might have been acceptable for John to have married Isabella, provided she converted ? I have noticed on ancestry someone has put Alexander as John 's father, is this confirmed? It does not seem to be a common name. I read through the Donegal/ Derry Hart 's tree, but was unsure how the female Hart who lived in Kilmore could have contributed to our line. Though I did get lost in the John Harts!!!
Regards, SH
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Alexander Hart is not the confirmed father but the only other Hart in Maralin COI at that time so I threw him out their provisionally to see if I got a hit. John Hart seems to have inherited the farm at Derrylisnahavel as his father died in 1829 ?? and a John Hart is in the freeholder records for 1832. David Harte 1799 was a Stone Mason (my understanding) so maybe he got cash instead or married money. I have no evidence for either assumptions. All we know for certain is that David and John are in Griffiths Valuation in Turmoyra prior to their deaths. Davids daughters all married men in the 1850s from Brownlows Derry (John Green and James Doyle Silverwood, Henry Mc Corry Boconnell and Thomas Furphy Kinnego). Davids son David bought a farm of John Murray in Ballynamoney in the 1880s. I don't think the Donegal crowd are connected but only time and a bit more digging will tell. I would like to find out more about Isabella who may have been married by a local priest (as St Peters records only start 1822). It is unlikely that any records exist of that or other RC marriages because of the criminalisation of that religion at that time?? They were definetly not married in Magheralin COI or Shankill Lurgan COI who records do exist back to 1600's. David was definetly baptised in Shankill but I have not found his marriage to Elizabeth (on his headstone) ???
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Yes, I suppose David was married to Elizabeth and had left home by his father's death. The fact that you have not come across any marriage records yet provides the possibility of a Catholic marriage, but it would be really interesting to know who Elizabeth was.
Initially I thought they were a Catholic family who converted to COI during penal times, but I suppose as you say the timing of John's death has to be factored in also.
If Alexander is the only other Hart on the Magheralin records I understand why you made that connection. I ll add his name to my ancestry tree to see if anything connects.
Really interesting developments, if I come across anything I ll keep you posted!
SH