RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Midlothian => Topic started by: Vimto on Saturday 09 July 11 09:28 BST (UK)
-
I am looking for any help in tracing back the Scottish roots of some direct ancestors called JOHNSTON or JOHNSON, principally Thomas JOHNSTON, a golf professional born in Musselburgh and his wife Jane, who moved to Croydon, Surrey in the late 19th century.
On the 1891 census, Thomas JOHNSTON is aged 40, as is his wife Jane, and they are living at No. 36 Riddlesdown Road, Croydon, Surrey; the family comprising:
Thomas JOHNSTON (40); b. 1851; Musselburgh; Golf Professional
Jane JOHNSTON (40); b. 1851; Edinburgh
Thomas JOHNSTON (14); b. 1877; Edinburgh; Golf Assistant
George JOHNSTON (12); b. 1879; Edinburgh
Mary Ann JOHNSTON (10); b. 1881; Edinburgh
Jane JOHNSTON (8); b. 1883; Edinburgh
Maggie JOHNSTON (6); b. 1885; Edinburgh
Janet JOHNSTON (4); b. 1887; Edinburgh
Christina JOHNSTON (3); b. 1888; Edinburgh
Peter JOHNSTON (1); b. 1890; Purley, Surrey
From this census record, I've surmised the family moved to Surrey from Edinburgh in c.1889 (i.e. after the birth of Christina and prior to the birth of Peter).
Can anyone help with tracing this family back to Scotland? Any help with earlier census records, marriage details, maiden name of Jane, ancestry of Thomas and Jane, etc. would be really appreciated, as currently this is a dead end for me in my research.
I am particularly intrigued by the golfing profession of Thomas JOHNSTON. Could he be the inventer of the first patented golf club:
"Patent 2683 by Thomas Johnson in 1876
( Non-wooden Golf Club heads )
The first ever golf equipment patent was granted to Thomas Johnston of Edinburgh covering the making of golf club heads out of a very hard rubber substance he called “vulcanite”, rather than wood. Today , only a dozen of these clubs are known to exist and they are extremely valuable." as cited at:
http://www.patentlygolf.com/Golf_Equipment-_The_Early_Year/golf_equipment-_the_early_year.html
-
Hello 'Vimto'. Had a look on my 1881 LDS census |Cd for all of Scotland and can't easily see the family - perhaps having a bad day.
However, for research in Scotland. An investment of £7.00 (seven) will buy you 30 credits on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk - the official govt website.
This will allow for the viewing and download of up to 5 bmds/or census records - allowing for first time hit. In view of what you have, if you download one of the children birth entries it'll give both parents names - as well as fathers profession and mothers maiden name - will also give date and place of marriage. That's 6 credits gone. For another 6 download the marriage entry which yet again gives both sets of parents names and both mothers maiden names.
I'm unfortunately out of credits - and it's not even halway through the month. Shall go and have another look on my census cd. Good luck.
Regards, Steve :)
-
Cheers Steve
I used credits at ScotlandsPeople a while ago in my hunt, but there were too many possibles, so I burned all my credits looking. Where can I get hold of the CD you mention? That sounds like a possible way forward without investing loads in credits trying to eliminate people. It's a shame you can't subscribe to ScotlandsPeople in the same way you can Findmypast. Regards.
-
Hi, I've found your family in the 1881 census. They're in Edinburgh - 3 King's Stables. Thomas has been transcribed as James in Ancestry ( as has his son!). There is a daughter, Marion, born in Edinburgh around 1873. I suggest you look for her birth certificate on scotlandspeople. It will give the full names of both her parents. You will then be able to find their marriage certificate easier as you'll have Jane's maiden name. The marriage certificate will state details of their parents thus enabling you to find them in the censuses, & deaths etc. Happy hunting!
flst
-
I can't see how Marion fits in, unless she is from an earlier marriage. She is not mentioned in any of the later census records, so I think this is not the family I'm looking for. Thanks a lot for looking into this. I would have thought the whole family would have come down to Surrey in c.1889. Marion would have been 16 years old and I assume it would be unlikely she would have stayed behind.
-
The 1911 census is the first census to be filled in by the head of the household. In 1911, Thomas had died, but his widow Jane filled in and signed the census. Interestingly, she gives her surname as JOHNSTONE. Her daughter Christina is a domestic servant in Croydon in 1911, and her surname is also recorded as JOHNSTONE. So perhaps any marriage records will have Thomas JOHNSTONE marrying Jane ??? in c. 1875 in Edinburgh.
-
Here is a Marion Johnston on the 1901 Census, age 27, born Scotland, living in Croydon.
https://www.familysearch.org/search/recordDetails/show?uri=https://api.familysearch.org/records/pal:/MM9.1.r/18GJ-HJP/p_10241882333
-
Marion doesn't feature in our family history so she must be from a different family. On the 1891 census the same woman is cited as a domestic servant, full name is Marion Paxton Johnston, for those who might be interested in finding out more about her it would be worth looking on the 1881 Scottish census.
-
Hi Vimto
I do think that flst and Canisp are likely to be on the right track with the 1881 census find. On the Scottish Anc/y transcript there has been a correction made for a name change for James Snr to Thomas. The notes included show:
Thomas rather than James
This James is definitely Thomas Johnston, as I have most of his children's birth certs and the address is 3 Kings Stables Road. Also on their birth certs is his occupation of carter which matches this census, and the birthplace and time are the same.
This is the entry mentioned - everyone showing as born in Edinburgh except for James/Thomas Snr:
James Johnston 29, carter b. Musselburgh
Jane Johnston 30
Marion Johnston 8
James Johnston 5
George Johnston 3
Mary A Johnston 1
Address: 3 King'S Stables, Edinburgh
Who of their children is the one that you are following back?
I have a hunch from what I have seen from general searches that wife Jane's maiden name may be Paxton and might connect to this whole string of posts here http://newsarch.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/SCT-EDINBURGH/2007-05/1179481402
From IGI, a Thomas Johnson married a Jane Paxton on 30 June 1871 Edinburgh Parish, Edinburgh. IGI is good for showing Scottish births up to around 1874. There are three showing for this couple up to 1874, all in Edinburgh:
1. Janet b. 19 Oct. 1871
2. Mary b. 14 AUG 1873
3. Catherine b. 10 Dec. 1874
Regarding spellings of the surname, I would use wildcards where you can for Johnston/Johnstone. Spellings were not fixed at that time as they are today and you may find different registrations show with a different spelling.
Monica :)
-
MonicaL, humble pie is well and truly on the menu tomorrow.
Very sorry flst and Canisp for my out of hand dismissing of your helpful hints - it just didn't make sense to me so I assumed you were on the wrong track, Now I know it was me. Isn't this site brilliant?!!!
With the additional information provided by MonicaL this is almost certainly the right family and I can begin my Scottish ancestry. Thank you all so much for being patient with me and giving me all the guidance you have found time to send in. Lesson learnt.
-
There is not a day that I don't learn something new either Vimto - that's what keeps this research fun and fresh I think half the time!
I do think this family on the 1881 census that flst found is certainly worth following up on.
Monica :)
-
MonicaL and flst - is the 1881 Scottish census imagery available to view on ScotlandsPeople or is it a transcript? I'd love to be able to get a copy of the original if I can. What would be the best way? I live in the north of England and will be on holiday in Scotland this summer. So if there is a way of calling in somewhere and obtaining copies of the original census that would be great.
Once again, thank you all.
-
Both versions are available! I thoroughly recommend you read the helpful information on scotlandspeople. As piglet explained in his post, it's the official government website. Don't hesitate to ask us for help if you get stuck.
Regards
-
MonicaL asked:
Who of their children is the one that you are following back?
I'm following back Jane JOHNSTON(E), b. 1883, the direct ancestor who has been eluding me til now.
She is born after Mary Ann (1881), and is followed by Maggie (1885) and Janet (1887) - all born in Edinburgh (like their older siblings), before the move down to Croydon c. 1889, after which, Peter is born (1890).
Thanks.
-
Both versions are available! I thoroughly recommend you read the helpful information on scotlandspeople. As piglet explained in his post, it's the official government website. Don't hesitate to ask us for help if you get stuck.
Regards
Cheers, I'll do just that and then buy some credits. Thanks for all the advice. Invaluable.
-
There is not a day that I don't learn something new either Vimto - that's what keeps this research fun and fresh I think half the time!
I put my initial query up just before 9:30 this morning, and I'm now truly mesmerised by all the help you have all provided in such a short space of time. Thank you and I'll let you know how I get on.
-
You say you will be in Scotland on holiday, if you have a day to spare in Edinburgh it may be worth visiting the Scotland's People Centre at Register House. For £15 you can search and view BMD's and Census from 9am to 4-30pm, much better value if you want to research this familys ancestors in greater detail. 50p for copies. I think the Mitchell Library in Glasgow provides the same service although may require advance booking.
Canisp.
-
Hi Canisp
Thanks for the advice and information. I'll try and make it to Register House next month.
Vimto
-
I have a hunch from what I have seen from general searches that wife Jane's maiden name may be Paxton and might connect to this whole string of posts here http://newsarch.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/SCT-EDINBURGH/2007-05/1179481402
From IGI, a Thomas Johnson married a Jane Paxton on 30 June 1871 Edinburgh Parish, Edinburgh.
Confirmation this hunch is right came from me looking for Peter's birth, the last child and the only one born in England, rather than in Edinburgh like his older siblings. Well, well - Peter Paxton JOHNSTON was born Q2, 1889, Croydon, vol 2a, pg 275. His middle name being matched by his elder sister Marion Paxton JOHNSTON. I'm sure there will be others with the same middle name amongst the other children.
As hunched earlier by MonicaL, Thomas JOHNSTON almost certainly married Jane PAXTON in Edinburgh on 30 June 1871 (as cited on IGI). I'll obtain Peter's birth certificate to confirm his mother, Jane's, maiden name and then hopefully the rest will fall into place and I can pursue the intersting link:
I have a hunch from what I have seen from general searches that wife Jane's maiden name may be Paxton and might connect to this whole string of posts here http://newsarch.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/SCT-EDINBURGH/2007-05/1179481402 (http://newsarch.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/SCT-EDINBURGH/2007-05/1179481402)
-
Certainly the Paxton name is helping ;) The Scots' custom of using important first and surnames for their children's names can be really useful as you are seeing.
I think from the first births we had earlier following the 1871 marriage, possibly two daughters may have died young (Janet b. 19 Oct. 1871 and Catherine b. 10 Dec. 1874)?
There can't be many people with same name with a golfing profession in those times - thinking here of your 'Thomas JOHNSTON, a golf professional born in Musselburgh'
No idea how you research patents and what personal information may be included in applications etc. but would be interesting for you to be able to confirm if your Thomas was indeed the Thomas with the patent. Wishful thinking that the family had kept some of these clubs as I saw yesterday how rare and expensive they are now are :o ;D
Monica
-
Would be great to think there is a set of his patented clubs gathering dust in a family attic somewhere.
Gravitating from "Carter" in Edinburgh in 1881 to a "Golf Professional" in Surrey in 1891, I'm beginning to think Thomas JOHNSTON's golfing skills was the reason why he moved with his family to England (sufficient for one of his son's to also be employed as a "Golfing Assistant" - which I presume is what we now call a caddy).
I need to try and find out which course he may have played/practiced at (or been employed by) both around Edinburgh and Croydon.
Thanks for all your continuing help and insights MonicaL.
-
I need to try and find out which course he may have played/practiced at (or been employed by) both around Edinburgh and Croydon.
I think you need to dig further into golfing archives and history to make all the links and hopefully get some detail. I know nothing about golf :P but perhaps as a start point with a query to them:
- www.scottishgolfhistory.net/leith_links_first_golf_competition.htm (lots of links to different pages/subjects on the top left)
- www.britishgolfmuseum.com/
Given the subject, there are many sites to follow up on ;)
Monica
-
Thanks for the advice and links.
As a result I've now made contact with the Honourable Company of Edinburgh Golfers and Royal Musselburgh Golf Course to see if they can yearn some information about Thomas JOHNSTON's golfing background.
Vimto
-
Hi Vimto,
As the popularity of golf began to grow in the latter half of the nineteenth century so individuals turned their minds to golfing inventions. The first patent for a golf club was granted in 1876 to Thomas Johnston who turned to making the heads of golf clubs from a hardened rubber material called vulcanite. Few of these clubs survive today and when offered for auction they often fetch in excess of 5000 British Pounds each. Another 13 years went by before the second patent for a design for a golf club was granted in 1889; this time to Willie Park Jnr for his concave faced lofter which was not dissimilar to all of the concave faced irons that village blacksmiths had been hand producing for several centuries beforehand!
taken from this link http://www.antiquegolfdirectory.com/?q=guttaperchaperiod.
Cheers.
Archie.
-
Good morning,
I'm descended from this family also, and have done quite a bit of work on them. In the sibling group you've listed, Janet Johnstone is my direct ancestor.
It's been about a decade since I look at them in great detail, so I'll have to pull up my notes to recall!
The difficulty in going back beyond Thomas and Jane was that their marriage certificate omitted an important detail. Thomas and Jane were actually first cousins, which their marriage certificate attempted to hide by putting the maiden name of Jane's grandmother (Currie) instead of her mother (Paxton). The cousin connection: Thomas' mother was Janet Paxon, and Jane's father was Henry Paxton. They were siblings, and their parents were James Paxton and Margaret Currie.
Thomas and Jane married 30 Jun 1871, District of Newington, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland.
Place of marriage: 4 Oxford Street, Edinburgh, Scotland.
After banns in the United Presbytarian Church.
Witnesses George Paxton and William ?.
Thomas was a carter and Jane was a domestic servant. Usual residence, 135 Westport, Edinburgh (both).
I do have a little information on the descendants of your ancestor Jane also. You're welcome to PM me, and I'll pass these on.
The golf connection is certainly there on the Paxton side. Another of the children of James Paxton and Margaret Currie, James Ferdinand Douglas Paxton (b.1830), you'll find a fair bit of information on. He was a professional golfer, and sadly took his own life.
The mother of Jane Paxton (married to Thomas Johnstone) was Jane Hunter, her mother was Euphemia Ormiston, and the this line goes back into the early kings of Scotland (c1000). Enjoy the journey!
Kind regards,
Victoria