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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: Spatts on Friday 08 July 11 11:57 BST (UK)
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Hi fello Lancastrians,
Can anyone help me with the families that lived in the Crown Inn at the above address?
My 2x Grt Grandparents Alfred & Elizabeth Andrew were supposed to have owned it at one stage, got pictures of the Pub/Coach House. My Grt Grandmother was supposed to have been brought up there, Lilly Ann Andrew b1877, Openshaw & died Feb 1961, buried in Droylsden Cem.
Alfred was b1839, Openshaw, Iron Moulder, wife Elizabeth Andrew nee Kershaw b1839, Holligworth Lake, Littleborough, Rochdale.
Lilly Ann Andrew married Harry Walker b1870, at 5 South Witham Bank, Lincoln, Lincs, where the Lincoln Glory Hole is, died in Manchester 1932, married Lilly Ann in 1899 in Chorlton, Manchester.
The Pub/Coach House was opposite the junction of Slade lane on Stockport road.
Any help would be gratefully appreciated,
Spatts.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0e68/
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0e69/
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Seems to have been the Hudson family 1901-later
Crown Hotel 679 Stockport Road,Longsight North Manchester registration district Prestwich
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1901
Sydney Hudson 30 licensed victualler b Heaton Norris
Maria B 33 wife b Campden Town London
Septimus 28 brother manager b Heaton Norris
3 hotel waiters and a servant domestic
RG13 3761/94/28
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1891
Alice M Bowman 20 Head single barmaid b Chorlton upon Medlock
Diana Pimlott 71 widow visitor living on own means b Liverpool
Elizabeth O'Connor 24 visitor bar maid b Alton Staffs
John Tunicliffe 35 married servant ostler b Longnor Staffs
RG12 3256/4/2
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1881
Cant see a 679 Stockport Road but theres the Imperial Inn at 393
There is a William Hough and family living there and he is a gardener
RG11 4019/106/64
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:) Thank you russ,
may be it was later, it wasn't knocked down till 2000, prior to it being knocked down it was changed to a Irish theme pub called the Ceili.
spatts.
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Hi spatts :D
1883 directory has the Crown Inn, 597 Stockport Rd Longsight, listed under "Alfred Hargreaves (executors of)", so presumably Mr Hargreaves had died some time just before the directory was published.
:) Barbara
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... on the other hand... 1879 directory has
"John Hargreaves (executors of)" at the Crown , 597 Stockport Rd
so maybe the presence of 'executors' indicates something other than deceased landlords? Maybe the Hargreaves owned the pub but did not run it themselves?
Can't see the Crown in 1877 or 1876 directories
:) Barbara
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The Hargreaves are there in 1881:
1881 census
HARGREAVE, Alfred, M, Publican b 1847 Ardwick
Mary E , Wife, b 1849 Salford
Fredk, son, b 1873 Longsight
John D, son, b. 1874 Longsight
Sam, son, b. 1876 Longsight
Bethsheba Dau, b. 1878 Longsight
KEFFIN, Elizth, sister in law, visitor, b.1863 Longsight
FALKNER, James, servant, Ostler, b. 1854 Stockport
597 Stockport Rd
RG11/4019/100/55
There was a lot of changing the house numbers back then, I remember trying to locate somewhere on that stretch of road a couple of years ago on RC!
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Hi Barbara :D
Thats 1901 & 1881 covered, Luzzu & Cancan have helped too, its been a long long task trying to find two brother who went to Australia, one stayed & one returned. Don't think it was the Walkers so now I'm trying the Andrew family, I've put posts on the Lincolnshire site which explains the story better, which have been on there a while & posts on the Australian site.
The pub may hold the clue to this long drawn out search but, I'm not holding my breath. The rings may also hold a clue, so I'm taking them to a couple of jewellers tomorrow or next week, pictures on the Lincolnshire posts.
All posts on each site are posted by spatts. Its getting to be a bit of a story at that.
Thank you for your help, I truely appreciate it.
spatts. :)
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Hi,
1881 (as Andrews) Alfred, Elizabeth,Thomas and Lilly are at 103 Fairfield Road, Openshaw.
1891 Alfred, Elizabeth and Lilly are at 5 Abbey Hey Lane, Openshaw, Fairfield, Manchester.
Nanny Jan
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:) Thanks Jan,
I've got Alfred & Elizabeth on the 1901 living with Thomas, wife & kids on Ashton Old road but, for Alfred to be a Iron Moulder all his working life, I was wondering how he could afford the Pub/Coach House, The Crown Inn.
Unless he was one of the two brothers that went to Australia & Alfred was the one who came back. I found one of his brothers living at 13, Abbey Hey lane, William Andrew but he passed away between 1881 & 1891 leaving Milly, his wife & two sons Frederick & Alfred.
Alfred senior had another brother James Andrew b1832 in Dukinfield like William Andrew, b1834. Can't find anything on James after 1861, so maybe James was the one who stayed in Australia???
Thank you for your help Jan, appreciated.
spatts. :)
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Found this,
1895 Kellys directory of Manchester.
Andrew, Alfred. Beer retailer, 175 Earl Street, L.
claire
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:)Thanks Claire,
Do you have a link for the Kelly's Directory of Manchester?
Alfred's daughter Lilly Ann Andrew Was supposed to have been brought up at the Crown Inn according to my mum but, what I don't understand is, I have Lilly Ann in houses on all censuses from being born in 1877 to getting married in 1899 & after.
Is there such thing as a Public Houses Directory??
spatts.
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Hi spatts,
Historical directories free to view!!
http://historicaldirectories.org/hd/
Cancan :)
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Hi Cancan,
Thanks for the link, I'll have a look after tea.
Hope you got the info I sent you.
spatts.
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Hello Spatts
Im not strictly a user of this site but saw your query about the Crown Inn in Longsight on a general internet search. My Great great grandparents, Robert and Alice Bowman, owned the Crown Inn for a period before 1890 when they both died within a month of each other. The ownership passed on to their single Daughter Alice Maria, my great grandmother, who was just 20. Alice Bowman also had two sons who were both born in Australia in the 1860s. Alice Maria Bowman married a Thomas Shaw in 1891 and had five children. Thomas died sometime between 1899 and 1901 and Alice Maria remarried in 1903 to a Albert Summersgill and had two more children. This marriage ended before the 1911 census and she is listed as a Widow however I understand he had remarried. She died in 1919.
I hope this is of some interest.
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:) Hi Mullpoult,
Thank you for that info, I have noted the dates down & it may help in narrowing things down a little more, maybe my ancestors owned it after 1911.
It is something I need to carry on with because of the family rings, I just need to know if the Andrew family did own the pub at one stage or another.
Thanks again,
spatts.
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I took this pic of The Crown the year before it was demolished, in 1999....
http://manchesterhistory.net/LONGSIGHT/PUBS/crown.html
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:) Thanks Rocles,
I'm sure I have seen your picture on another web site somewhere, is it on the Pubs of Manchester?
I did some research & found that the land belonged to Manchester Cathedral as far back as the 16th Century, some land was sold off to a family, it then went to the son & later sold to another gent before going to Manchester Council.
There are quite a few pictures of the Crown/Ceili on the Manchester Library Archives going back to the 60s, 70s & prior to that.
I am trying to find information of who the Landlords/Licensee was from 1911 onwards.
Thanks again for the picture.
Regards,
Spatts.
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No problem :) Can't help with any names from 1911, sorry. I know the area quite well, grew up there in 60s/70s....I found my originals from that photoshoot (24MAR99), so here's the others too
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Hi Rocles,
Thanks for sharing the extra pictures, I've been researching Trades & Business Directories but, no luck so far for the Andrew family at that pub.
Regards,
spatts.
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From 1929 directory (on Ancestry)
Herbert Wm. Franklin listed at the Crown.
From the London Gazette archive (actually about a probate, I was hoping for licence transfer notices)
...Septimus Hudson, late of the Crown Hotel, Stockport Road Longsight, licensed victualler, who died 31st January 1914..
:) Barbara
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:) Thank you Barbara,
I do have the Andrew family living in houses right upto 1911 census, so I don't understand when my mother said Lilly Ann Andrew & her parents lived there, I have them living around Openshaw or Higher Openshaw.
My Mother thinks that the family rings were a wedding present to Lilly Ann & my Grt Grandfather Harry Walker. The rings are made from Australian gold & heavy, I not had much luck with the Makers mark (L&W), the only one I can come up with is (Lee & Wigfull) of Sheffield, I know London is LW but, this is L&W.
Regards,
spatts.
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I can see they had an address on Stopford St in Openshaw.
Couldn't be a misunderstanding could it? Of Stopford St and Stockport Road?
There was a Crown Inn on Ashton Old Rd, close to Stopford St I think;
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0ens/
from the Manchester council image collection. Similar style building to the one on Stockport Road
:) Barbara
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I can see they had an address on Stopford St in Openshaw.
Couldn't be a misunderstanding could it? Of Stopford St and Stockport Road?
There was a Crown Inn on Ashton Old Rd, close to Stopford St I think;
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0ens/
from the Manchester council image collection. Similar style building to the one on Stockport Road
:) Barbara
1901 directory has a Sydney Hudson proprietor Crown inn, 679 Stockport road.
1913 directory has Septimus Hudson proprietor Crown Hotel 679 Stockport road
No Crown inn or hotel shown on either directory for the Stopford Street Openshaw
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1901 directory has an Alfred Andrew beer retailer at 70 Wellington street , Gorton but gone by 1911
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Derek del is correct, on the 1901 census at 70 Wellington Rd, Gorton
Alfred Andrew, innkeeper b. 1845 from Newton Moor Cheshire :D
wife Eliza from Nottingham
son Albert age 17 born Nottingham
Maybe this is the one that was at Earl St in the 1895 directory
but is that the right Alfred Andrew? Didn't you already have yours in 1901 living with his married son?
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Hi Barbara & Derik,
Yes I do have the 1901 Census,
1901 Cen, 796, Ashton Old rd, Higher Openshaw, Manchester.
Thomas Edward Andrew 32, Machine Fitter, born Fairfield, Manchester.
Mary A. Andrew 34, born Bordesley, Birmingham.
Lilly Andrew 12.
Alfred Andrew 5.
Alfred Andrew 62, Iron Moulder.
Elizabeth Andrew 62, born Littleborough, Rochdale.
This is what I don't understand, my mother said they owned the Crown pub on Stockport rd opposite Shady lane, have Alfred & Elizabeth living with daughter & son in law on the 1911 census.
1911 Cen, 86, Stopford st, Higher Openshaw, Manchester.
Harry Walker 42, Planer in Machine Shop, born Lincoln, Lincolnshire.
Lilly Ann Walker 35, born Openshaw, Manchester.
Annie Walker 8,
Thomas Edward Walker 6
Lilly Walker 4 months
Alfred Andrew 72, Tool shop Labourer, born Openshaw, M/c.
Elizabeth Andrew 72. born, Hollingworth Lake, Littleborough, Rochdale.
I just can't see them owning any pub, let alone Alfred & a brother going to Australia or his two brothers going to Australia, Think William Andrew died in Stopford st & his other brother James, I think he ended up in Portsea, Portsmouth, they were born in Duckinfield.
Thank you so much for your time & help, it is really appreciated.
Regards,
spatts.