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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: sdurx on Thursday 07 July 11 11:45 BST (UK)
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Hi all,
I'm trying to find out anything about my great great grandparents Lawrence and Elizabeth Durkin. He was born in Ireland in ~1862 and she in either the West Indies or India (depending on which census you look at) in ~1862. A relative has told me that Lawrence was in the "Indian Army" so it seems likely that he met Elizabeth through that.
They were in Darwen, Lancashire in 1883 when my great grandfather Henry Durkin was born, and then moved to Burnley and had Bridget, Patrick and Mary Ann. I have tried for months to find birth records for any of their four children with a view to establishing Elizabeth's maiden name, but with no success.
The few details I have gleaned from censuses suggest that Lawrence worked in iron foundries and Elizabeth was a pedlar.
The Irish-(West) Indian connection is the most fascinating thing I have uncovered during my short time researching my family history, so if anyone could give me any advice or help to find out anything else at all, I would be extremely grateful!
Regards,
Sean Durkin.
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I will have to start here and work back,
and you can tell me if this is the correct couple,
Burial,12 Th April 1913,Burnley cemetery
Lawrence Durkin,
age 50 years
abode Burnley Infirmary,
buried in a public grave
number A17705
3rd of November 1906
Ann Elizabeth Durkin,
age 47 years,
abode ,Victoria Hospital,
buried in a public grave,
grave number A15768,
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Yes, that's the guy! I have a copy of his death certificate if that would help but can't find any information about his birth (other than it being somewhere in Ireland) or parentage anywhere.
I don't think the Ann Elizabeth is mine though, as she appears on the 1911 census aged 50 (where she lists herself as "Lizzie").
Thanks for your reply!
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Sorry just realised that when I was looking at census 1901 as there is another Durkin family in Burnley,
have you looked at Lawrence who is born in Liverpool,Irish parents,
I am posting the 1901 census for reference,
Thorn Street ,Padiham,Clay Bank,
RG13/3877
Lawrence Derkin,age 39 born Ireland,Iron foundry worker
Elizabeth Derkin aged 39 born West Indies,pedlar ,own account,
Henry,age 17, Blackburn,Cuppa Hands ,calico printer
Bridget,age 15,born Burnley
Paddy,age 12,born Burnley
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I think that the info you posted there from the 1901 census is definitely him and his family. On his death certificate his occupation is listed as "iron dresser" which agrees with his occupation in the census. I have also found the family on the 1891 census (they lived at 4 River Street, Habergham Eaves, Burnley), but can't find anything before that, which leads me to suspect that they moved to Lancashire between 1881 and 1883 (when their eldest child was born). If there were some information about this period of their life it would be a jackpot!
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On the 1891 census he says he is born Liverpool,
Laurentius Durkin
son of Michaelis and Juliai Mara
born 23 rd of May,1867
baptised 9 th of September 1867
Our Lady of Reconciliation de la Salette,
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Patrick in his war records for the Lancashire Fusiliers of which he joined in 1908,age 19 a cotton worker gives his father as L Durkin next of Kin ,P,,,, Street Burnley
Patricks birth was registered J/F/M 1889 Lancashire,
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I quite like the Lawerence Dirkin, Bricksetters Labourer aged 19 born Blackburn with a mother Bridget living in Harwood Court, Blackburn on the 1881 census. This Lawrence gets a few mentions in the local press of the time as Lawrence Durkin. Once in 1879 for breaking into a warehouse for which he got 4 months and twice for being drunk and disorderly. The last one being in April, 1887 stating he was of Harwood`s Yard aged 25 and an Iron Turner.
Mo
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Hi,
He was transcribed as Lawrance Durken aged 12 ::) on the 1871 census born Ireland. Living at Harwood Court. RG10/4174 folio 26 page 46.
So, he seems to be born Ireland, Blackburn, Blackburn, Ireland, and Ireland Sligo.
It looks like the same chap to me - what do you think?
Mo
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To Mo,
Thank you so much. I think you're spot on - everything adds up, in terms of dates, locations and occupations. The whole scenario has the ring of authenticity about it! This info has passed out of living memory, but there are lots of people in my family who have wanted to know, and now they will.
Particularly amused/interested in the drunk and disorderly convictions - may I ask where you found these? It would be very entertaining for myself and the rest of my family to read the articles themselves, if it were possible.
Would you have any advice for me about finding out more? I don't mean to seem greedy - what you've uncovered there is a jackpot - but I find myself immediately wanting to know more! I'm a member of Ancestry so I can probably get a lot more information based on what you've told me about his mother and residence, but what's the best way to proceed once the line goes over to Ireland?
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To Ms Radcliff,
That's definitely my Patrick Durkin - I had a look on Ancestry and there is a great deal of information about his military career, including some letters in his original handwriting. I couldn't believe it - it made him seem so much more real! Looking forward to sharing this with the many other people in my family who will be interested. Thank you so much for that insight!
I'm not sure that Laurentius (I assume they've given his name a Latin-twist as part of the RC ceremony) is mine. I'm not ruling it out, but the date is ~5 years out, which seems a little too large even given the lax date-keeping of my family at that time! Will be looking into it in depth tomorrow.
Gratefully, and tentatively hoping for any more advice,
Sean.
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I would look more at the Mo one found with his mother ,
I briefly looked at him before I went out,so I shall go back now ,
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Hi,
I can access the old newspapers free using my library card number through my County Library website. It is worth checking to see if your particular County Library subscribes to them. They should be listed in Online Services or something similar. Each website is different. Any problems let me know.
If they don`t I can type them up for you.
As for Irish records ::) Once you have grouped the family I would suggest posting your query on one of the Irish Boards on Rootschat.
Do you know what happened to Elizabeth as she does not appear to be buried in Burnley Cemetery? Well not under Durkin . I did check Henry`s grave to see if she was buried in it, but sadly not. I seem to remember it was his daughter Norah and Husband.
Regards,
Mo
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Can I ask another question please :) Do you know if Bridget married and if so who to?
Mo
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Hi Mo,
Thanks again - will look into the Library Card business tomorrow and let you know how that goes.
Elizabeth herself is a mysterious character; the last time she pops up (as far as I can discern) is in the 1911 census, in which she lives at 4 Pickup Court, Burnley, with her eldest son Henry Durkin as the head of the household. On that document her name is listed as "Lizzie". After that she drops off the radar. Her husband Lawrence died in 1913, so I suppose it's possible that she remarried (although she would have been 52ish at the time of his death). In any case, there are no death records of an Elizabeth Durkin in Lancashire. Perhaps she went back to India...! I would love to know.
Yes you're right again that Lawrence's son Henry was buried with his daughter Norah and her husband (last name of Murray). I've visited the grave in Burnley cemetery, along with the grave of Lawrence himself which is typically unmarked!
Unfortunately I've no idea about Bridget, either. I did try to get hold of her birth certificate with a view to establishing Elizabeth's maiden name, but the good people at Burnley library couldn't find it. On the 1901 census she is noted as having "crippled hands", but in her brother Patrick's military records there is a mention of some problem with his own hands, so either "crippled hands" was entered into the wrong row on the 1901 census or it ran in the family at the time.
Appreciating your efforts,
Sean.
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There is a marriage for
Bridget Durkin, to John James Lord,
Blackburn ,register office or registra attended
1903 ,
lancsbmd reference RM/153/53
Bridget to James Doyle, 1908,RM/171/33
Bridget to George Frederick Bancroft,1912, RM/183/154,
Same as above registration,
Do these names mean any thing to you
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Have you used the 1911 census, Lawrence is there in Burnley, it may give some important information,
it wont cost a lot and you can down load the census,sorry of course you have the 1911 census ,does it say how long Lawrence and Elizabeth were married for,
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Ms Radcliff - I had searched the 1911 census but I could only find Elizabeth living as a boarder with her eldest son Henry at 4 Pickup Court Burnley. Since Lawrence died in 1913 and his residence was listed as Union Infirmary, Burnley, I assumed he was ill for those two years. Whereabouts on the 1911 census does he appear!? This is a potentially fascinating development, if he left the family home for a reason other than illness!
I can find no record of the marriage of Lawrence and Elizabeth. Their eldest child was born in ~1883, and "Lizzie" lists herself as married in the 1911 census, so all I can reasonaby say is that they were married from ~1883 at the latest, to at least 1911. The difficulty for me about this is that there's a chance they were married in (West) India or Ireland or somewhere "exotic" like that, and I don't really know what the best course of enquiry would be in that case...
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Sorry no I didn't see them together on the 1911 census,but as they are both still alive I thought it might say how long they had been married,
Looking at the Durkins I am intrigued slightly by this one ,
Mary Durkin,death Burnley age 68, March,1935,born circa 1867
in her probate it says
Mary Durkin, of 50 High Street Burnley ,widow died 23 rd of Jan 1935,
probate granted Lancaster to Patrick Durkin stripper and grinder and Bridget Vickery wife of John Vickery,
effects £31 10s 5d,
is Elizabeth Mary are Bridget and Patrick her children to Lawrence,??????
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Free bmd ,
John Vickery to Bridget Durkin,
Burnley registration district,
December 1934,
Lancashire,bmd
John Vickery to Bridget Durkin
Burnley register office or registra attended,
RM/242/218
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Hi Radcliff,
I think that Mary Durkin was married to a Thomas who was buried in the same grave in 1934 aged 72. :'(
Sean,
I think the only way forward is to send for the Patrick Durkin birth certificate that Radcliff found.:
Burnley March Quarter 1889 Volume 8e page 211.
I have a sneaky suspicion that they are all registered as McArdle/McCardle or in Patricks case he is entered twice, once as McCardel and also Durkin on the GRO - bear with me on this as it does sound odd I know. If you view the whole page of names that Patrick Durkin and Patrick McCardel appears on in the GRO (same page) , they all have corresponding entries on www.lancashirebmd.org.uk , apart from there is no mention of a Patrick Durkin born Burnley in that year. :-\ So did both surnames appear on the same certificate, but not as a married couple, hence Lancashirebmd have just used the one? Clear as mud eh! ;D ::)
This all started with me looking all the Mary Ann`s born in the Burnley registration district in 1891 (she was 2 months old on the census) and noting down the surnames, I then did the same with Bridget`s (three years) and Patrick`s. The one common thread was that there was always a McArdle or variation of it showing. Non of these McArdles appear on the 1891 census nor is there a death as far as I can see. It just seems very suspicious.
You definitely need that certificate.
Mo
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Radcliff,
No, sadly it doesn't say how long they were married. "Lizzie" is listed as married, but the column about how long the marriage has lasted has been left blank. ::)
Hmm, you might be onto something with the probate - it seems a little odd that her other child Henry didn't get anything (he was alive until 1946), but maybe they had a falling out. I could probably go the the library and have a look at the marriage certificate of Bridget and John Vickery to see if her father was Lawrence. If so, it would be a great find to know that Elizabeth went as Mary. Shall get back to you on that!
Mo,
Intriguing theory - there's also a Henry McArdle registered in Blackburn in 1883 which lends more weight to the idea. I can't imagine why they wouldn't be registered as Durkin, unless as you say Lawrence and Elizabeth weren't officially married... Or, it's possible that they were married in (West) India and for whatever reason they just didn't register as Durkin. I wouldn't know how to go about tracing marriages in such places, though!
In any case, I will do as you suggest and get a copy of the certificate!
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Hi Mo and Radcliff,
Been on the trail of Lawrence's father Patrick recently (found his death certificate, attached) after you helped me to find him and wondered if you'd lend me your opinion on a possible lead.
In the 1861 census there's a family living at 14 Garnet Street, Stockport, Cheshire with a Martin Durkin (b. 1825) listed as the head. Also living there are Lawrence Durkin (b. 1800, Mayo, Ireland) and Bridget Durkin (b. 1801, Mayo, Ireland), listed respectively as Father and Mother.
I think it's possible that Lawrence and Bridget might also be the parents of Patrick (b. 1818), who is in turn father of the Lawrence (b. 1862, Ireland or Blackburn) we were talking about earlier.
ie,
Lawrence Sr. -> Patrick -> Lawrence Jr. who married Elizabeth
-> Martin who is in this 1861 census
It would explain the recurrence of names in the family; I know "Patrick" is annoyingly frequent, but "Lawrence" seems to be relatively rare.
What do you think? I'm unsure of a good way to verify this, and would be very grateful if you could once again assist me with your insights!
Sean.
Moderator comment: image removed. RootsChat does not allow the posting of complete certificates.
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Hi all:
I would like you to consider this item: re Lawrence Durkin, born 23 May, 1867 to Michael Durkin and Julia Mara.
I too have been researching the Durkin family of Liverpool and I would submit that this Lawrence Durkin died in 1868. There is a burial record for a Lawrence Durkin, aged 12 months, buried in Fords Cemetery.
Something for you to consider.
Cheers
Stapler40