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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Hampshire & Isle of Wight => Topic started by: Robert Fletcher on Tuesday 05 July 11 19:47 BST (UK)
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This is what we know for certain.
1901 England Census [RG13 998 130 28]
Stephen Newman married age 30 born in Portsmouth. He is married to Bessie (Betsey) Dracass who was born in Sheerness Kent abt 1872.
Children Ethel (Beatrice Ethel) 1893, Francis 1895, George 1900, Nellie 1897.
Beatrice Ethel Newman married Archibald Wright 24 on 19 April 1913 Burbage Parish Church, Leicestershire. Beatrice Ethel stated her father was Stephen Newman occupation 'Coal Heaver'.
This is possible and probable:
Stephen James Newman born Q2 1871 Portsea Island RD Vol 2B pg. 443
Stephen James Newman death Q1 1905 age 33 Portsmouth RD Vol. 2B pg. 405
Oral Family History.
Ethel met Archibald in Portsmouth c.1912 fell in love and got pregnant. Ethel's brother wanted to kill Archibald so they walked to Archibald's home in Burbage, Leicestershire about a 155 miles. The eldest child was named after Ethel's brother Albert Edward Newman http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,541905.0.html. I thought I had found him in another thread but can find no evidence that this is him.
This is the problem and a brick wall:
Following the death of Stephen, Betsey and the children disappear. Unable to find them anywhere on the 1911 Census. I cannot find any possible marriages due to the common names. So any pointers to finding the other children would be appreciated.
Robert
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Sorry I realise that I posted in the wrong forum I have written to the moderator to move it to the Hampshire general forum. Sorry everyone.
Robert...
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Widow Bessie NEWMAN born Chatham and son Albert 8 may be found at 17 York Place, Portsea in 1911.
There is a marriage 4Q 1913 between Bessie NEWMAN and James URRY Portsmouth 2b 963.
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Widow Bessie NEWMAN born Chatham and son Albert 8 may be found at 17 York Place, Portsea in 1911.
There is a marriage 4Q 1913 between Bessie NEWMAN and James URRY Portsmouth 2b 963.
Thank you so much for this. I need to get the MC to confirm but it seems to be a reasonable match at this stage. I wonder where the other children went?
Robert...
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Hi Robert it may be worth checking this:-
Frank Newman 11
Nellie 10
Albert 7
They are on the SS Dominion bound from Liverpool to Portland USA along with numerous other children on the 21st February 1907
Remember the search I have carried out will link similar surnames, so maybe something or nothing!
Keyboard86
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Hi Robert it may be worth checking this:-
Frank Newman 11
Nellie 10
Albert 7
They are on the SS Dominion bound from Liverpool to Portland USA along with numerous other children on the 21st February 1907
Remember the search I have carried out will link similar surnames, so maybe something or nothing!
I have just had a quick look at the records. Nothing else on the manifest. Also sailing from Liverpool a long way from Southampton. I can't get anything from the Allis Island site. But all is not lost. We are hoping to catch up with an uncle who we know visited Portsmouth looking into this family. I don't think he did it on genealogical lines but we will see what he did find out. Our best thing I think is to get the civil certs. then see if that can lead us somewhere.
I welcome any suggestions on how to go about this, a visit to Portsmith is on the cards.
Robert
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Have you investigated the birth registered in Portsmouth RD in Dec qtr 1913 for a William E Urry or Newman where the mother's maiden name is Dracass. This may tie in with the marriage to James Urry in the same quarter in 1913.
A Bessie Urry died in Mar qtr 1946 aged 73 in Portsmouth RD.
Nell
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Have you investigated the birth registered in Portsmouth RD in Dec qtr 1913 for a William E Urry or Newman where the mother's maiden name is Dracass. This may tie in with the marriage to James Urry in the same quarter in 1913.
A Bessie Urry died in Mar qtr 1946 aged 73 in Portsmouth RD.
Nell
Thanks Nell I had not looked. It seems to confirm that marriage. At the moment I am on slow as the last few days has taken me away from everything. Will see Uncle tomorrow and hopefully but a lot of this together. It's wonderful having a name like Urry seems very uncommon.
Robert...
PS: Just done an edit, it seems that the Urry family is a very important family from the Isle of Wight.
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I have only registered today due to your posting.
My Great Grandmother was a Bessie Newman She is on the 2011 census with my Grandmother Olive May Urry. As you mentioned above
Have been trying to find out as much as I can about Bessie as she has been really hard to track... I am very new to researching ( you may be able to tell! )
Really hope you still use this site!
Lindsey
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Hi
You hadn't mentioned this ........
1892 Mar Portsea 2b 720
Bessie Dracass / Stephen Newman
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Oh yes, I am also 99% sure this was her previous marriage but cannot be 100% as I have no actual documentation to prove this
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In March 1907 there is a Nellie L Newman going to Canada on the 'Dominion' with a Dr Barnardos party of children
In March 1908 there is a Frances A Newman going to Canada on the 'Dominion' with a Dr Barnardos party of children.
In 1909 there is a George Newman going to Quebec 'to school' on the 'Sicilian' with a Church of England party.
Could these be the 'missing' children of the family? (from the 1901 census)
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Ontario, Canada marriages
15th December 1916
Frances Allen NEWMAN aged 21
Parents - Stephen Newman and Bessie Deaciss
Spouse - William John Wilson aged 35
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Hi Robert it may be worth checking this:-
Frank Newman 11
Nellie 10
Albert 7
They are on the SS Dominion bound from Liverpool to Portland USA along with numerous other children on the 21st February 1907
Remember the search I have carried out will link similar surnames, so maybe something or nothing!
Keyboard86
Looking good for above post then!
Keyboard86
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Hi
Odds n s*ds ............
Francis(1895) is female in 1901 (therefore not Frank/Francis)
Regd Frances Alice 1894 Portsea 2b 534 ?
Beatrice Ethel (1893)
Regd Ethel Beatrice 1892 Portsea 2b 478 ?
Nellie (1897)
Regd Nellie Laura 1897 Mar Portsea 2b 523 ?
George(1900)
Regd George 1900 Mar Portsea 2b 493 ?
Stephen James Newman
B.Regd 1871 Jun Portsea 2b 443
D.Regd 1905 Mar Portsmouth 2b 406 (age 33)
Beatrice E Newman / Archibal T Wright
Reg 1913 Jun Hinckley 7a 107
Fredk A Wright
Regd 1913 Sep Hinckley 7a 83
Beatrice E Wright
Regd 1917 Dec Hinckley 7a 58
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Hi
Others to add to notes
1913 Mar Portsmouth 2b 825
William E Urry mmn Dracass
less likely ...........
1914 Mar I. Wight 2b 1050
Marion R Urry mmn Newman
1919 Dec I. Wight 2b 1127
Joan V Urry mmn Newman
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Wow.. Thanks for all your help.. Loads to work my way through
Lindsey
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Lindsey
Nearly forgot ................
WELCOME TO ROOTSCHAT!
and good hunting.
Ray
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In March 1907 there is a Nellie L Newman going to Canada on the 'Dominion' with a Dr Barnardos party of children
In March 1908 there is a Frances A Newman going to Canada on the 'Dominion' with a Dr Barnardos party of children.
In 1909 there is a George Newman going to Quebec 'to school' on the 'Sicilian' with a Church of England party.
Could these be the 'missing' children of the family? (from the 1901 census)
]I am hoping this is OK to resurrect a thread that is 4 years old rather than start a new one.
Can someone confirm the passenger Nellie L Newman [1897] on the SS Dominion March 1907. I have brought up the passenger list on FindMyPast and the closest I have got to is a Nellie Newman b.1897 sailing on the SS Dominim Feb 1907 to Portland.
I had not looked at the family for a few years as tracing them I found difficult in Canada. I have now received a contact from the grandson of Frances Alice Newman (Yes those others are correct), who lives in Canada. Interesting is he did not know his grandmother had two other siblings and Nellie Laura being one of them. So any help is really appreciated. At the moment the server at the National Archive of Canada is down.
Robert...
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Hi,
Nellie L NEWMAN age 10 arrived Halifax/ Portland Maine USE on 3 Mar 1907 aboard the Dominion from Liverpool
and even better,
Nellie L NEWMAN aged 10 arrived 5 Mar 1907 at Portland aboard
S.S. Dominion from Liverpool. Listed as a Barnado's child
Regards,
Daisy
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I've also found this which could be Nellie,
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=135355962&ref=acom
it fits the info on the passenger list but unfortunately doesn't mention a middle name.
Looking at the image for the 1911 Canada census mentioned I think her relationship to the head of household is domestic not daughter. It also has her month and year of birth as Dec 1897, but it gives her age as 14 so something is wrong there as a Dec 1897 birth would make her only 13 in the June 1911 census. A Dec 1896 birth would fit with the census, her passage to Canada and a birth registration in the 1st quarter of 1897.
Apparently you might be able to apply for Nellie's records,
http://canadianbritishhomechildren.weebly.com/barnardo-home-records.html
Daisy
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Hi DaisyPetal
Thank you so much for this information and it has helped indeed to track down this family member, in fact so much has now opened up. There is still one that we cannot find but I think I will put him in another thread as there is no evidence he went to Canada.
Thanks again
Robert...
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Very glad to have helped :)
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Hi,
Not sure if you will even see this...due to being many years later!
Joined due to your thread - Beatrice is my Great Grandmother.
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Hi KatyC
Welcome to RootsChat :)
Robert was last online in 2020, he will be notified by email of your reply.
Regards
Sarah
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Hi,
Not sure if you will even see this...due to being many years later!
Joined due to your thread - Beatrice is my Great Grandmother.
Hi There you have just woke me up :o I have not done much with this tree for some time. Which Beatrice is your Gt. Grandmother. I will need to send some information in a PM but I don't know if newbies can.
I look forward to your reply.
Robert...
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Hi,
So sorry.
I know of her being Beatrice Ethel Wright née Newman but we were told her was Ethel Beatrice Newman.
Many Thanks,
Katy