RootsChat.Com

England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Hampshire & Isle of Wight => Topic started by: Robert Fletcher on Tuesday 05 July 11 19:47 BST (UK)

Title: Family Disappeared
Post by: Robert Fletcher on Tuesday 05 July 11 19:47 BST (UK)
This is what we know for certain.
1901 England Census [RG13  998  130  28]
Stephen Newman married age 30 born in Portsmouth. He is married to Bessie (Betsey) Dracass who was born in Sheerness Kent abt 1872.
Children Ethel (Beatrice Ethel) 1893, Francis 1895, George 1900, Nellie 1897.

Beatrice Ethel Newman married Archibald Wright 24 on 19 April 1913 Burbage Parish Church, Leicestershire. Beatrice Ethel stated her father was Stephen Newman occupation 'Coal Heaver'.

This is possible and probable:
Stephen James Newman born Q2 1871 Portsea Island RD Vol 2B pg. 443
Stephen James Newman death Q1 1905 age 33 Portsmouth RD Vol. 2B pg. 405

Oral Family History.
Ethel met Archibald in Portsmouth c.1912 fell in love and got pregnant. Ethel's brother wanted to kill Archibald so they walked to Archibald's home in Burbage, Leicestershire about a 155 miles. The eldest child was named after Ethel's brother Albert Edward Newman http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,541905.0.html. I thought I had found him in another thread but can find no evidence that this is him.

This is the problem and a brick wall:
Following the death of Stephen, Betsey and the children disappear. Unable to find them anywhere on the 1911 Census. I cannot find any possible marriages due to the common names. So any pointers to finding the other children would be appreciated.

Robert
Title: Re: Family Disappeared
Post by: Robert Fletcher on Tuesday 05 July 11 20:00 BST (UK)
Sorry I realise that I posted in the wrong forum I have written to the moderator to move it to the Hampshire general forum. Sorry everyone.

Robert...
Title: Re: Family Disappeared
Post by: dee-jay on Wednesday 06 July 11 16:47 BST (UK)
Widow Bessie NEWMAN born Chatham and son Albert 8 may be found at 17 York Place, Portsea in 1911.

There is a marriage 4Q 1913 between Bessie NEWMAN and James URRY Portsmouth 2b 963.
Title: Re: Family Disappeared
Post by: Robert Fletcher on Wednesday 06 July 11 19:12 BST (UK)
Widow Bessie NEWMAN born Chatham and son Albert 8 may be found at 17 York Place, Portsea in 1911.

There is a marriage 4Q 1913 between Bessie NEWMAN and James URRY Portsmouth 2b 963.
Thank you so much for this. I need to get the MC to confirm but it seems to be a reasonable match at this stage. I wonder where the other children went?
Robert...
Title: Re: Family Disappeared
Post by: keyboard86 on Wednesday 06 July 11 20:56 BST (UK)
Hi Robert it may be worth checking this:-

Frank Newman 11
Nellie 10
Albert 7

They are on the SS Dominion bound from Liverpool to Portland USA along with numerous other children on the 21st February 1907

Remember the search I have carried out will link similar surnames, so maybe something or nothing!

Keyboard86


Title: Re: Family Disappeared
Post by: Robert Fletcher on Wednesday 06 July 11 21:59 BST (UK)
Hi Robert it may be worth checking this:-

Frank Newman 11
Nellie 10
Albert 7

They are on the SS Dominion bound from Liverpool to Portland USA along with numerous other children on the 21st February 1907

Remember the search I have carried out will link similar surnames, so maybe something or nothing!
I have just had a quick look at the records. Nothing else on the manifest. Also sailing from Liverpool a long way from Southampton. I can't get anything from the Allis Island site. But all is not lost. We are hoping to catch up with an uncle who we know visited Portsmouth looking into this family. I don't think he did it on genealogical lines but we will see what he did find out. Our best thing I think is to get the civil certs. then see if that can lead us somewhere.
I welcome any suggestions on how to go about this, a visit to Portsmith is on the cards.

Robert
Title: Re: Family Disappeared
Post by: Little Nell on Wednesday 06 July 11 22:18 BST (UK)
Have you investigated the birth registered in Portsmouth RD in Dec qtr 1913 for a William E Urry or Newman where the mother's maiden name is Dracass.  This may tie in with the marriage to James Urry in the same quarter in 1913.

A Bessie Urry died in Mar qtr 1946 aged 73 in Portsmouth RD.

Nell
Title: Re: Family Disappeared
Post by: Robert Fletcher on Wednesday 06 July 11 23:34 BST (UK)
Have you investigated the birth registered in Portsmouth RD in Dec qtr 1913 for a William E Urry or Newman where the mother's maiden name is Dracass.  This may tie in with the marriage to James Urry in the same quarter in 1913.

A Bessie Urry died in Mar qtr 1946 aged 73 in Portsmouth RD.
Nell

Thanks Nell I had not looked. It seems to confirm that marriage. At the moment I am on slow as the last few days has taken me away from everything. Will see Uncle tomorrow and hopefully but a lot of this together. It's wonderful having a name like Urry seems very uncommon.

Robert...

PS: Just done an edit, it seems that the Urry family is a very important family from the Isle of Wight.
Title: Re: Family Disappeared
Post by: PortsmouthLindsey on Saturday 05 May 12 07:59 BST (UK)
I have only registered today due to your posting.

My Great Grandmother was a Bessie Newman  She is on the 2011 census with my Grandmother Olive May Urry. As you  mentioned above

Have been trying to find out as much as I can about Bessie as she has been really hard to track...  I am very new to researching ( you may be able to tell! )

Really hope you still use this site!

Lindsey
Title: Re: Family Disappeared
Post by: [Ray] on Saturday 05 May 12 12:41 BST (UK)
Hi

You hadn't mentioned this ........
1892 Mar Portsea 2b 720
Bessie Dracass / Stephen Newman


Title: Re: Family Disappeared
Post by: PortsmouthLindsey on Saturday 05 May 12 12:56 BST (UK)
Oh yes, I am also 99% sure this was her previous marriage but cannot be 100% as I have no actual documentation to prove this
Title: Re: Family Disappeared
Post by: redtonyt on Saturday 05 May 12 14:50 BST (UK)


In March 1907 there is a Nellie L Newman going to Canada on the 'Dominion' with a Dr Barnardos party of children

In March 1908 there is a Frances A Newman going to Canada on the 'Dominion' with a Dr Barnardos party of children.

In 1909 there is a George Newman going to Quebec 'to school' on the 'Sicilian' with a Church of England party.

Could these be the 'missing' children of the family?  (from the 1901 census)



Title: Re: Family Disappeared
Post by: redtonyt on Saturday 05 May 12 15:11 BST (UK)


Ontario, Canada marriages

15th December 1916

Frances Allen NEWMAN  aged 21

Parents - Stephen Newman and Bessie Deaciss

Spouse - William John Wilson aged 35


Title: Re: Family Disappeared
Post by: keyboard86 on Saturday 05 May 12 15:26 BST (UK)
Hi Robert it may be worth checking this:-

Frank Newman 11
Nellie 10
Albert 7

They are on the SS Dominion bound from Liverpool to Portland USA along with numerous other children on the 21st February 1907

Remember the search I have carried out will link similar surnames, so maybe something or nothing!

Keyboard86




Looking good for above post then!
Keyboard86
Title: Re: Family Disappeared
Post by: [Ray] on Saturday 05 May 12 15:58 BST (UK)
Hi

Odds n s*ds ............

Francis(1895) is female in 1901 (therefore not Frank/Francis)
Regd Frances Alice  1894 Portsea 2b 534 ?

Beatrice Ethel (1893)
Regd Ethel Beatrice 1892 Portsea 2b 478 ?

Nellie (1897)
Regd Nellie Laura    1897 Mar Portsea 2b 523 ?

George(1900)
Regd George           1900 Mar Portsea 2b 493 ?


Stephen James Newman
B.Regd 1871 Jun Portsea       2b 443
D.Regd 1905 Mar Portsmouth 2b 406 (age 33)


Beatrice E Newman / Archibal T Wright
Reg 1913 Jun Hinckley 7a 107

Fredk A Wright
Regd 1913 Sep Hinckley 7a 83

Beatrice E Wright
Regd 1917 Dec Hinckley 7a 58
Title: Re: Family Disappeared
Post by: [Ray] on Saturday 05 May 12 16:24 BST (UK)
Hi

Others to add to notes

1913 Mar Portsmouth 2b 825
William E Urry   mmn Dracass

less likely ...........
1914 Mar I. Wight 2b 1050
Marion R Urry   mmn Newman
1919 Dec I. Wight 2b 1127
Joan V Urry      mmn Newman
Title: Re: Family Disappeared
Post by: PortsmouthLindsey on Saturday 05 May 12 16:33 BST (UK)
Wow.. Thanks for all your help.. Loads to work my way through

Lindsey
Title: Re: Family Disappeared
Post by: [Ray] on Saturday 05 May 12 16:45 BST (UK)
Lindsey

Nearly forgot ................

WELCOME TO ROOTSCHAT!

and good hunting.

Ray
Title: Re: Family Disappeared
Post by: Robert Fletcher on Monday 09 November 15 12:09 GMT (UK)


In March 1907 there is a Nellie L Newman going to Canada on the 'Dominion' with a Dr Barnardos party of children

In March 1908 there is a Frances A Newman going to Canada on the 'Dominion' with a Dr Barnardos party of children.

In 1909 there is a George Newman going to Quebec 'to school' on the 'Sicilian' with a Church of England party.

Could these be the 'missing' children of the family?  (from the 1901 census)
]I am hoping this is OK to resurrect a thread that is 4 years old rather than start a new one.
Can someone confirm the passenger Nellie L Newman [1897] on the SS Dominion March 1907.  I have brought up the passenger list on FindMyPast and the closest I have got to is a Nellie Newman b.1897 sailing on the SS Dominim Feb 1907 to Portland.
I had not looked at the family for a few years as tracing them I found difficult in Canada. I have now received a contact from the grandson of Frances Alice Newman (Yes those others are correct), who lives in Canada. Interesting is he did not know his grandmother had two other siblings and Nellie Laura being one of them. So any help is really appreciated. At the moment the server at the National Archive of Canada is down.
Robert...
Title: Re: Family Disappeared
Post by: Daisypetal on Tuesday 10 November 15 17:50 GMT (UK)
Hi,

Nellie L NEWMAN age 10 arrived Halifax/ Portland Maine USE on 3 Mar 1907 aboard the Dominion from Liverpool


and even better,

 Nellie L NEWMAN aged 10 arrived 5 Mar 1907 at Portland aboard
S.S. Dominion from Liverpool.  Listed as a Barnado's child

Regards,
Daisy
Title: Re: Family Disappeared
Post by: Daisypetal on Tuesday 10 November 15 18:57 GMT (UK)

I've also found this which could be Nellie,

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=135355962&ref=acom

it fits the info on the passenger list but unfortunately doesn't mention a middle name.

Looking at the image for the 1911 Canada census mentioned I think her relationship to the head of household is domestic not daughter. It also has her month and year of birth as Dec 1897, but it gives her age as 14 so something is wrong there as a Dec 1897 birth would make her only 13 in the June 1911 census. A Dec 1896 birth would fit with the census, her passage to Canada and a birth registration in the 1st quarter of 1897.


Apparently you might be able to apply for Nellie's records,

http://canadianbritishhomechildren.weebly.com/barnardo-home-records.html


Daisy
Title: Re: Family Disappeared
Post by: Robert Fletcher on Wednesday 11 November 15 10:26 GMT (UK)
Hi DaisyPetal

Thank you so much for this information and it has helped indeed to track down this family member, in fact so much has now opened up. There is still one that we cannot find but I think I will put him in another thread as there is no evidence he went to Canada.

Thanks again
Robert...
Title: Re: Family Disappeared
Post by: Daisypetal on Wednesday 11 November 15 21:15 GMT (UK)

Very glad to have helped  :)
Title: Re: Family Disappeared
Post by: KatyC on Sunday 27 March 22 18:15 BST (UK)
Hi,

Not sure if you will even see this...due to being many years later!
Joined due to your thread - Beatrice is my Great Grandmother.
Title: Re: Family Disappeared
Post by: sarah on Monday 28 March 22 10:17 BST (UK)
Hi KatyC

Welcome to RootsChat :)

Robert was last online in 2020, he will be notified by email of your reply.

Regards

Sarah
Title: Re: Family Disappeared
Post by: Robert Fletcher on Monday 28 March 22 12:18 BST (UK)
Hi,

Not sure if you will even see this...due to being many years later!
Joined due to your thread - Beatrice is my Great Grandmother.
Hi There you have just woke me up  :o I have not done much with this tree for some time. Which Beatrice is your Gt. Grandmother. I will need to send some information in a PM but I don't know if newbies can.
I look forward to your reply.
Robert...
Title: Re: Family Disappeared
Post by: KatyC on Monday 28 March 22 14:40 BST (UK)
Hi,

So sorry.
 
I know of her being Beatrice Ethel Wright née Newman but we were told her was Ethel Beatrice Newman.

Many Thanks,

Katy