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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: EilHolli on Sunday 03 July 11 08:09 BST (UK)
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Hi, I am struggling to find any record of my great grandfather's birth, his name was Edward Mensforth, son of John Mensforth, soldier in 51st Kings Own Yorkshire regiment in Tasmania. He had a brother Thomas Ralph & sister Ann, both born in Corfu, sister Sarah, born in Sydney, brother John, born and died Tasmania 1840, and Amelia Jane & Agnes, both born in Tasmania. I think his mothers name was Isabella Marvoa but on Edwards Marriage certificate to Maria Fanny White in 1881, he listed his mother as Elizabeth. John was discharged from the army in 1846 and went to SA, Edward may have been born there and not in Tasmania as thought. If anyone has any ideas or information that can help me, I would be grateful. :-\
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Hello EilHolli
You may already have these, but in the South Australian Register (Adelaide) 20 Aug 1859
DIED - Drowned from the wreck of the Admella Steamer, off Cape Northumberland, on or about the 6th of August, Thomas Rolfe Mensforth, aged 26, eldest son of the late Mr John Mensforth of Adelaide. Deeply regretted by all who knew him.
1 July 1882 - Deaths
IVERSON - on 25 June, Mellors Rd, Glanville, Charlotte Cecelia Iverson, wife of Captain N H Iverson, and youngest daughter of the late John Mensforth, 51st King's Own Light Infantry, Manchester, England
There is a piece in Feb 1861 reporting on the suicide of an Ann Mensforth, and it mentions her mother Elizabeth??
I'm sorry, none of this helps with your original query re Edward's birth.
Dazey
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Thanks Dazey,
I did have some of that but I didn't know about Charlotte or that Ann was connected to Elizabeth either. Of course it could be that Elizabeth is a form of Isabella though. Thanks for the info, it give s me a new lead to follow up. :)
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24 May 1881
Henriatha Katrine Iversen
born to Niels Holm Iversen and Charlotte Cecilia Mensforth
Glanville
4 Sep 1876
Charlotte Maud Iversen
23 Jun 1879
Mater Olivia Iversen
Seems that Niels remarried after Charlotte's death to Elizabeth Jane Willcock
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Thanks for that, do you happen to know where Charlotte was born and died? She must have been born in SA as I can't find a record of it in Tas.
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She died in Glanville, South Australia. But I can't find where she was born. As she was the youngest daughter do you have a timeframe for her birth?
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Charlotte is buried at Cheltenham Cemetery - aged 31 when she died, so born c.1851
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From the Biographical Index of Sth Australia - not always accurate with detail.
IVERSEN Niels Holm - b.c1837 Copenhagen, Denmark. Arrived: 1863 on the SEA STARR
occ: Mariner, residing Glanville, Portland Estate Rel: C/E
married (1 of 2) - 28.12.1869 Charlotte Cecelia
children:
Wm 1874
Agnes Eliza Jane 1875
Charlotte Maud 1876
John Holm 1878
Walter Oliver c1879 - see Dazey's posting, this is a girl Mater Olivia
married (2 of 2) - 10.2.1883
child:-
Geo Victor 1892 - 1948
MENSFORTH Edward born 11.11.1847 Plymouth, England died 11.8.1930 buried West Terrace Cemetery, SA.
Arrived: 1875 on the NORTH
occupation; Carriage Examiner,Iron turner
married: Esther born 1850 died 9.1.1930
children:
Eliz 1868
Joseph 1870
Ed 1872
Wm 1874
Helen 1875
Emma FITZGERALD c1881-1957
G (male) 1883 - 1918
plus 2 sons.
Regards,
Sashar
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I see this marriage in Victoria
MENSFORTH Edward born Launceston married Fanny Maria White in 1881 reg no 225
You have this marriage certificate, does it say he was born in Tasmania
Jenn
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Hi EilHolli, :)
Here is a long shot. As tropicalj mentions, the Victorian Marriage Index suggests that Edward was born in Launceston. Does the Marriage certificate that you have for Edward also state his age? If so, would it tie in with my suggestion that follows?
I was wondering if Edward could in fact be the John MANSFORTH mentioned on the Tasmanian Colonial Family Links database.
http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?search=8
I realise that this database is not always correct but it is pretty good.
This John Mansforth, b. 1846, was mentioned previously on rootschat here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,470799.msg3308071.html#msg3308071
From the Tasmanian Colonial Family Links database:
http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?detail=1&type=P&id=393175
John MENSFORTH, b.1840 d.1840, Launceston, son of John MENSFORTH and Isabella MAROVA, (if i am reading the results correctly, all these people would be named on the birth/baptismal record of Agnes MENSFORTH http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?detail=1&type=P&id=393172)
There is also:
http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?detail=1&type=P&id=371818
John MANSFORTH b.1846, Launceston, son of John MANSFORTH and Amelia MORRIS
Perhaps this is actually written as MENSFORTH in the original, handwritten record? You'd have to check the Registrar-Generals Department pre-1900 births, deaths and marriages records, Tasmania.
In any event, even the newspapers of the day varied the spelling:
John MANSFORTH, former Serjeant of the 51st
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article36241863
I hesitate to mention the other newspaper/websites i found concerning John Mensforth in case it is irrelevant/unwelcome.
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Only one MANSFORTH on the Tasmanian Pioneer Index.
John born 13 th April 1846 at Launceston reg no 1234/1846
I search for any other children with Amelia Morris and found only one and she was Ameila Morris Brown. The Tasmania index does have quite a few transcription errors.
So as Dunnsleibhe suggests a good possibilty but will depend on what age you have for your Edward.
Jenn
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One John MANSFORTH left TAS for Adelaide on the ship Julia in 1846. No mention of any family with him. Have not found a record of a family following him.
Knowing Edward's age when he died may also be helpful.
Essie
ADDED
http://www.slsa.sa.gov.au/fh/passengerlists/1846Julia.gif
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Essie I think this is his death
15584/1922
MENSFORTH Edward
Father John
District Granville
Buried at Rookwood Anglican on 11 Dec 1922 in Section H; Row and Plot not available, Grave#5194. No age on the burial record and there is no MI.
His wife Fanny Maria is buried in an unmarked grave in the Hay cemetery. She died in 1917...surname mistranscribed
16671/1917
MENFORTH Fanny M
Father Henry Mother Fanny M
District Hay
Edward was the hotel proprietor at Hay in 1884 but was declared insolvent in 1890. EliHollie would have all this information.
EliHolli what is Edward's age and place of birth on the birth certificates of his children?
Cando
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Hello Everyone, sorry, I haven't been able to check in for awhile. It seems you lovely people have been very busy, thank you all for your replies and help with the mystery surrounding Edward. There is no mention of Edwards age on his kids certificates, it only mentions Launceston but now I'm beginning to think that it may be Launceston Cornwall and not Tasmania. I have since found that his father John (soldier murdered in 1850 S.A) may have gone back to UK around Edward's birth. The Edward that is mentioned in S.A is one of John's nephews that came out to Australia and married Esther.
I have applied to get copies of letters that John Mensforth wrote home, they are held at the ANL in Canberra, I'm hoping that what is in them may unlock some clues.
Thank you all again for your wonderful help in my search :)
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From the Biographical Index of Sth Australia - not always accurate with detail.
MENSFORTH Edward born 11.11.1847 Plymouth, England died 11.8.1930 buried West Terrace Cemetery, SA.
Arrived: 1875 on the NORTH
occupation; Carriage Examiner,Iron turner
married: Esther born 1850 died 9.1.1930
children:
Eliz 1868
Joseph 1870
Ed 1872
Wm 1874
Helen 1875
Emma FITZGERALD c1881-1957
G (male) 1883 - 1918
plus 2 sons.
Regards,
Sashar
Hello EilHolli :)
You may have already had a look at a thread I wrote about this family a year or so ago
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,470799.msg3308071.html#msg3308071
The Edward Mensforth mentioned by Sashar is one of my rellies. He was actually born in West Derby Lancashire, not Plymouth as mentioned in the Biographical index.
I descend from his sister Martha Mensforth who emigrated to Qld, another brother John Boardman Mensforth also emigrated to Qld.
I am very excited to see that you mentioned that the Edward above is:
The Edward that is mentioned in S.A is one of John's nephews that came out to Australia and married Esther.
Have you linked these two Mensforth families together?? If so we are related ;D
I would dearly love to know how your Edward's father John Mensforth (the soldier) and my Edward's father Edward are related. All I know about him is that he was a blacksmith born in North Shields, Northumberland and reportedly the son of a John Mensforth (shipwright). I was stuck then at a major brick wall......
Can't wait to hear from you ;)
Jenny
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Hey EilHolli,
Just found the newspaper articles about John Mansforth's murder in 1850, scary stuff :o
Well done finding him, I see that he is variously mentioned in the papers as "the sergeant", and old military pensioner....he was working as a shepherd at the time....interesting.
Do you have the death certificate? If so I would dearly love to see what it says about his family ;)
I see that his murderer was hanged...there is such detail in the old papers about things like this, both the murder & the execution....wouldn't see that in papers these days! Thank goodness!!
Did you ever get a hold of the letters he sent to his family? Most intruiging....
Can't wait to hear from you ;D
Jenny
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Hi
Interesting to look at the thread, but I have additional questions....
My first cousin (thrice removed) Maria BAILEY married Thomas Ralph MENSFORTH 7 Apr 1857 St Johns Church Adelaide SA. They had a daughter Frances Mary MENSFORTH 22 Apr 1858 George Street Adelaide SA.
Does anyone know what happened to her?
Thomas died in the wreck of the Admella 6 Aug 1859 (see the various reports of the day).
South Australian Register, Tuesday 6 December 1859 includes the following: Mr. McEllister also mentioned the case of Mrs. Mensforth, widow of Thomas Mensforth, who was a young wife with one child, and was again looking forward to her confinement, as deserving more consideration than it had received.
From this report, I assume but cannot find any record of a second child. Anyone know more?
Maria MENSFORTH (nee BAILEY) later married Robert KNOWLES 6 Aug 1863 Christ Church North Adelaide SA, and had a family of 6, although their first daughter died in childbirth.
Cheers, John
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Hi John,
Welcome to Rootschat ;D
I had seen Maria Bailey's marriage to Thomas Ralph Mensforth and the birth of their daughter, Thomas's death and her remarriage....but I was not aware of a second child....
The newspaper article certainly elludes to the fact that Maria was pregnant when Thomas died, but I cannot see a birth for a Mensforth child in 1859 or 1860 in South Australia......perhaps the child was still born or she lost it with all the stress? I suppose she could have had it registered under Bailey...but I looked at the records and I can't really see any possibilities......curious!
I wonder if EilHolli knows more? Or anyone else on this thread?
Jenny
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Hello there John and welcome to Rootschat
I guess it is possible that Frances Mary Mensforth being 5 years old when he mother remarried may have been brought up as KNOWLES and married under that name. Unfortunately I cannot olok for a marriage as my marriage index is notworking
I checked the birth index and no second child in that time fram to Maria MEnsforth?Bailey It could be she did miscarry the baby as JenClark has suggested
Jenn
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Hi
You can see my trees on Ancestry.com if interested.
Apart from the birth of Frances Mary MENSFORTH 22 Apr 1858, as yet to find a death or marriage. According to the South Australian Register, Tuesday 6 December 1859, she was still alive.
No trace of the second child, but could have lost it (plenty of stressful reasons!), it may have died at or after birth, and so on. In any case, I have checked Mensforth, Bailey, etc births on SA Births, Deaths, etc CDs and nothing obvious.
I have looked on and off for more than 10 years, so unlikely that details will ever turn up.
Cheers, John
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Hi
There were no children registered (births or deaths) to Robert and Maria Knowles until a couple of years after their marriage.
Robert KNOWLES, b. DEC QR. 1838 in Axbridge Somerset ENG, d. 30 May 1917 in "Cheddar" Marlborough Street St Peters SA.
He married Maria BAILEY, 6 Aug 1863 in Christ Church North Adelaide SA, b. 11 Dec 1841 in ? SA (daughter of John BAILEY and Mary PRANGLEY), d. 18 Aug 1923 in College Park SA.
Children:
i. unnamed daughter KNOWLES, b. 12 Mar 1866 in Brown Street Adelaide SA, d. 12 Mar 1866 in Brown Street Adelaide SA.
ii. Eva Marshall KNOWLES b. 9 Jun 1869. (married)
iii. Horace Robert KNOWLES b. 13 Apr 1871. (married)
iv. Harry Mortimer KNOWLES, b. 16 Jun 1873 in Kent Town SA, d. 7 Nov 1907 in Scarborough St Kilda VIC. (unmarried)
v. Elsie Clevedon KNOWLES b. 24 Mar 1876. (married)
vi. Jessie Maria KNOWLES b. 13 Mar 1878. (married)
Cheers, John
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Hey John,
Think I found your Frances Mary Mensforth...died in 1922 as Frances Mary Knowles.
Ancestry have an English Probabte Calendar entry stating:
Knowles, Frances Mary of Marlborough Street, St Peters, South Australia, Spinster died 8 Nov 1922. Probate Adelaide to Horace Robert Knowles wharehouseman. Effects £109 12s. 8d. in England. Sealed London 18 Jan 1927.
There is an entry in the Australia Death Index as follows:
Frances Mary Knowles 1916-1925 South Australia vol 458 pg 189
It doesn't solve the issue of the second Mensforth child, but at least you have found Frances ;D
Jenny
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Many thanks for the probate details. Funny I didn't find it before as I searched Ancestry.com for Frances Bailey, Mensforth and Knowles and for some reason she didn't appear in the probate list.
Now for the mystery of the second? child....
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No worries ;)
They have recently updated their probate records...so perhaps she was added with the last batch. Anyway glad we found her
Jenny
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link on Frances Knowles will
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/63748012?searchTerm=knowles frances&searchLimits=l-decade=192|||l-year=1922
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/63738377?searchTerm=knowles frances&searchLimits=l-decade=192|||l-year=1922
her death notice
Jenn
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Many thank - I had found them earlier today.
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Hi all.Ive recently been searching my husbands family tree.Niels Holm Iversen is my husbands great great grandfather.Iversen Niels Holm 29yrs (f Frederick Iversen) MARRIED 28 TH DEC 1869 Mensforth Charlotte 20 yrs f(John Mensforth) AT Congregational school room Port Adelaide.They had 8 children that i know of.The last name was quite often spelt incorrectly which made it difficult to find them.1.Iverson Frederick Christian born approx 1871.Couldnt find his birth but found his death.Died 27yrs Glanville 18th Oct 1898. 2.Iveson William Hollow b.10th May 1873 and died 5th Nov 1874 1yr.3.Inverson Agnus Elizabeth Jane b. 20th Jan 1875(MY HUSBANDS GREAT GRANDMOTHER) 4. Iversen Charlotte Maud b.4th Sept 1876.Couldnt find her death or if she married. 5. Iversin John Holm b.17th March 1878 d.15th Jan 1935 56yrs. 6.Arthur Ernest Iversen born approx 1878 or 1879 so would make him a twin.Couldnt find his birth but found his marriage. 7.Iversen Mater Olivia b.23rd June 1879 d 14yrs 16th Nov 1893 8. Iversen Henriatha Katrine b 24th May 1881 d 19yrs 14th May 1900. Mother of children Charlotte Iverson d 27 th June 1882 aged 31yrs buried at Cheltenham cemetery.Was unable to find her death in the South Australian Deaths. Neils Holm Iversen remarried.Iversen Neils Holm 43yrs married 10 th Feb 1883 Elizabeth Jane Willcock 25yrs at the Congregational school room Port Adelaide.They had two children.1.Iversen Ludwick William b.5th March 1884 2.Iversen Alfred Victor b.9th June 1886 died 10th dec 1886 6mths.If anyone can help with the birth of Frederick,Arthur Ernest and the death records for both Charlottes would be of great help.
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Hi all.Ive recently been searching my husbands family tree.Niels Holm Iversen is my husbands great great grandfather.Iversen Niels Holm 29yrs (f Frederick Iversen) MARRIED 28 TH DEC 1869 Mensforth Charlotte 20 yrs f(John Mensforth) AT Congregational school room Port Adelaide.They had 8 children that i know of.The last name was quite often spelt incorrectly which made it difficult to find them.1.Iverson Frederick Christian born approx 1871.Couldnt find his birth but found his death.Died 27yrs Glanville 18th Oct 1898. 2.Iveson William Hollow b.10th May 1873 and died 5th Nov 1874 1yr.3.Inverson Agnus Elizabeth Jane b. 20th Jan 1875(MY HUSBANDS GREAT GRANDMOTHER) 4. Iversen Charlotte Maud b.4th Sept 1876.Couldnt find her death or if she married. 5. Iversin John Holm b.17th March 1878 d.15th Jan 1935 56yrs. 6.Arthur Ernest Iversen born approx 1878 or 1879 so would make him a twin.Couldnt find his birth but found his marriage. 7.Iversen Mater Olivia b.23rd June 1879 d 14yrs 16th Nov 1893 8. Iversen Henriatha Katrine b 24th May 1881 d 19yrs 14th May 1900. Mother of children Charlotte Iverson d 27 th June 1882 aged 31yrs buried at Cheltenham cemetery.Was unable to find her death in the South Australian Deaths. Neils Holm Iversen remarried.Iversen Neils Holm 43yrs married 10 th Feb 1883 Elizabeth Jane Willcock 25yrs at the Congregational school room Port Adelaide.They had two children.1.Iversen Ludwick William b.5th March 1884 2.Iversen Alfred Victor b.9th June 1886 died 10th dec 1886 6mths.If anyone can help with the birth of Frederick,Arthur Ernest and the death records for both Charlottes would be of great help.
Welcome to rootschat
here is a link to the death notice for Charlotte IVERSON
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/43337496?searchTerm=iverson charlotte&searchLimits=
who died in South Australia in 1882
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Hi Milly
The only mention I could find of daughter Charlotte was the birth of one child.
Alfred William HENNESSY b. 31.03.1896
Father: Alfred HENNESSY
Mother: Charlotte Maud IVERSON
Birth Place/Residence: Wadnaminga
Burra district / Book 581 / Page 64
Found a death for an Alfred HENNESSY 27.02.1914 in Adelaide aged 44y.
Ade / Book / 382 / Page 61
His status was single so was not married to Charlotte Maud IVERSON.
Have since found Alfred and Charlotte died at Broken Hill where they lived for many years. TROVE has an obit for Alfred.
Barrier Miner (Broken Hill, NSW) < Friday 28 March 1941
Essie
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Milly, found a death in Broken Hill for Charlotte Maud HENNESSY.
30230/1951 HENNESSY Charlotte Maud
father NELSON
mother CHARLOTTE MAUD
Charlotte Maud HENNESSEY's Burial Record.
http://www.brokenhill.net.au/Cem.php
Obit. Barrier Miner (Broken Hill, NSW) < Wednesday 3 October 1951 >
Five children for Alfred and Charlotte at Broken Hill from 1898-1910
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/IndexSearch?
10782/1904 HENNESSY CHARLOTTE M
11851/1907 HENNESSY ANNIE D
19886/1898 HENNESSY ROY L
30086/1900 HENNESSY ALFRED W
24488/1910 HENNESSY BESSIE C
Essie
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Hey Milly,
Welcome to Rootschat ;D
So lovely to have another link in the chain with your Iverson info, just wish I could go back a bit further and find out if my Mensforth's tie in with these South Australian ones....I keep holding out hope that something turns up...let me know if you have gone further back with the Mensforth's ;)
Jenny
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Hi there,
Welcome to RChat Milly,
From NSW ER 1903, Electorate THE BARRIER, (ie Broken Hill and surrounds), polling place BURKE (no, not the town of Bourke)
Lottie Hennessey, Ryan lane, at her domestic duties
Alfred Hennessy, Beryl street, miner.
There's no way from the roll to know if this is your Charlotte (Lottie ?) and/or your Alfred.... It is possible that IF it is them, then Alfred may not have updated his address, or alternatively they had very recently moved from Ryan lane to Beryl St. It is simply my speculation that it MAY be them. 1903 was the first year that females were entitled to enrol, it was not compulsory to enrol, and the literacy levels for both the enrolling clerks and also for the voters was not exactly university standard.
A transcript of a birth for the couple eg the 1904 birth for Charlotte M would give you the then address of her parents. On the other hand, a transcript for the 1910 birth would give you details about all the older siblings as well as the then address. And, it seems likely there may have been others born after 1910 ....
Cheers, JM
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Hello Everyone, sorry, I haven't been able to check in for awhile. It seems you lovely people have been very busy, thank you all for your replies and help with the mystery surrounding Edward. There is no mention of Edwards age on his kids certificates, it only mentions Launceston but now I'm beginning to think that it may be Launceston Cornwall and not Tasmania. I have since found that his father John (soldier murdered in 1850 S.A) may have gone back to UK around Edward's birth. The Edward that is mentioned in S.A is one of John's nephews that came out to Australia and married Esther.
I have applied to get copies of letters that John Mensforth wrote home, they are held at the ANL in Canberra, I'm hoping that what is in them may unlock some clues.
Thank you all again for your wonderful help in my search :)
Hey EilHolli,
Just saw an entry on Ancestry for a 17yr old Edward Mensforth as an Ordinary Seaman on the 'Sorata' sailing from Adelaide to Sydney on arriving Sydney on 25th Jan 1864. It shows in the 'of what Nation' column Launceston....now Ancestry has it as Launceston, Cornwall but it does not specifically say this in the record....there are others on the crew list that have Tasmania as their 'Nation' so presumably they would have written Tasmania for Edward if he was from Launceston Tasmania......
Just a thought ;)
Jenny
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Thanks Jenny, yes I found that record as well, it through me bit as I thought it was Cornwall.
Sorry I don't get to check in very much, I wish I could do this research full time. :-\
I do know that Charlotte was Sergeant John Mensforth's younger daughter, she married Mr Iversen. I am trying to see the link between John and the other Mensforth's in SA, there is so many Edwards and Johns around the same birth and place, it is very easy to end up following the wrong line.
Sir Eric Mensforth (now deceased) told me that his 2nd great grandfather and my 3rd great grandfather were the same Edward Mensforth (a gardener) from York. I am grabbing every chance I get to research this.
Thank you everyone for your imput over the last few weeks, I do appreciate it. I will try and check in more often.
Cheers
Eileen
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Hi Eileen,
No worries, I work full time too, so I know what it can be like trying to squish in the research time ;)
I would love to find a link between the two Mensforth families in Adelaide too, did anything come up in the letters that John Mensforth wrote? I would love to see copies if you know where I can access them or if you have a copy?
In my hunting around with this family I have come across the following in regards to your John Mensforth:
Another Rootschatter found that the National Archives Records state:
Item reference WO 97/649/82 (1818-1841)
JOHN MENSFORTH Born KIRKHEATON, Yorkshire Served in 51st Foot Regiment Discharged aged 41
I found some baptisms in Kirkheaton to this family:
Marriage Edward Mensforth & Elizabeth Harris 19 AUG 1793 All Saints, Wakefield, Yorks
Agnes Meansforth baptised 14 Sep 1794 Saint Peter, Huddersfield, Yorks Fa: Edward Meansforth
Sarah Mentsforth baptised 10 Apr 1796 Kirkheaton, Yorks Fa: Edwd Mentsforth
John Mensforth baptised 08 Feb 1798 Kirkheaton, Yorks Fa: Edward Mensforth Mo: Elizth
Edward Mensford b 8 Feb 1800 bap 06 Apr 1800 Saint Peter, Huddersfield, Yorks Fa: Edward Mensford Mo: Elizabeth
Ralph Martin Mensforth b 13 Dec 1801, bap 17 Jan 1802 Huddersfield, Yorks Fa: Edwd Mensforth Mo: Elizabeth Harris
Ann Mensforth b 18 Jun 1806 bap 31 Jul 1806 Huddersfield, Yorks Fa: Edward Mensforth Mo: Elizabeth Harris
Thomas Mensforth b 14 Mar 1811, bap 12 Apr 1811 Huddersfield, Yorks Fa: Edward Mensforth Mo: Elizabeth Harris
Is this the Edward Mensforth (gardener from York) that your Sir Eric Mensforth mentioned?
This Edward Mensforth appears to have died in Huddersfield, Yorkshire in 1820
Burial: Edward Mensforth 2 Mar 1820 Huddersfield, Yorkshire
Interestingly Ralph Martin Mensforth appears to have had family come out to Australia also, he married Jane Lindsay and one of their sons.....another Edward Mensforth.....came out to Australia and died in Victoria in 1871 aged 36yrs.
This family does not at first glance appear to fit with my Mensforth's (which is a shame) as my Edward Mensforth (b 11 Nov 1847 West Derby Lancashire, d 9 Aug 1930 South Australia) has a father named Edward Mensforth (b abt 1816 North Shields Northumberland, d 16 Aug 1866 Wednesbury, Staffordshire). This Edward names his father as John Mensforth (shipwright) on his marriage........but I have never been able to find him :-\
I thought I would try your John's family further back to see if there are any possible links and this is what I came up with as a possibility:
Possible baptism:
Edward Mentsforth bap 9 Aug 1767 Bishop Middleham, Durham, England Fa: Marton Mentsforth Mo: Ann
there is a marriage for this couple:
Martin Mensforth & Ann Suddick 11 Dec 1753 Wolsingham, Durham
and other children as follows:
Ann Mensforth bap 6 Oct 1754 Wolsingham, Durham, England Fa: Martin Mensforth Mo: Ann
Ann Mentsforth bap 5 Mar 1757 Stanhope, Durham, England Fa: Martin Mentsforth
Agnes Mentsforth bap 17 Jan 1761 Stanhope, Durham, England Fa: Martin Mentsforth
Martin Mensforth bap 27 Dec 1762 Stanhope, Durham, England Fa: Martin Mensforth
Mary Mentsforth bap 7 Mar 1765 Bishop Middleham, Durham, England Fa: Martin Mentsforth Mo: Ann
John Mentsforth bap 1 Oct 1769 Bishop Middleham, Durham, England Fa: Martin Mentsforth Mo: Ann
Elizabeth Mensforth bap 20 Apr 1772 Bishop Middleham, Durham, England Fa: Martin Mensforth Mo: Ann
I think this is likely your Edward's family as the name Martin is passed down in your line...what do you think? It puts the generation before your Edward of Yorkshire as a Durham family...which is getting closer to my Northumberland John Mensforth (shipwright)....I guess John Mensforth baptised in 1769 could be my Edward's father as he would have been about 47yrs old when Edward was born in 1816.........I wish I could be certain.......perhaps more digging is required!
I will let you know if I find anything else in my travels, would love to hear your thoughts on these records.
Thanks :)
Jenny
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Eileen,
Not sure if you have come across this 'story' or not yet on Ancestry, but it is talking about Edward Mensforth the gardener (b abt 1767)
"He was a gardener to Charles Netherwood Esq., Steeton Hall, Nr Rittley, Yorks., and later to Almonds Brewery, Huddersfield. "He went to live at Manchester and had a flower and fruit stall in the Market, for some time living in the premises. He removed to Salford and came to live in the same street as Grandfather Dutton, and next door to Mr Matthews, father of a Bradford dentist. His youngest son Thomas by this removal met his future wife Ellen Dutton. Edward was a tall, well-built man, and very proudly independent".
This tree on Ancestry has Edward's death as 10 Sept 1833 aged 66yrs, not 1820 as I had mentioned as a possibility below.
Hope it helps :)
Jenny
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Thank you everyone who replied to my message.I did find the death notice to Charlotte Cecelia Iverson on 25th of June 1882 wife of captain N.H. Iverson,youngest daughter of the late John Mensforth,51st Kings Own Light Infantry Manchester England.I also know where she is buried but for some reason i havent found her in South Australian death records.N.H Iversens second wife Elizabeth Jane died in 1936 and at the bottom of her death notice it says Broken Hill papers please copy so it could be that her step daughter Charlotte Maud Iversen moved to Broken Hill hence why i couldnt find anything about her.Thanks again for that info.I have found info. on Trove newspapers on the Mensforth but not quite sure yet if they are related to Charlotte Iversen( Mensforth) at this stage.
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Hi, Jenny,
Were you looking up the crew lists of ships regarding a John Nichols some time ago? You may have come across this webpage, but if not - this one lists a John Nichols. Hope it is of some use!
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/nelson/gallery7/popup/casualty.htm
Best wishes,
Maggie
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Hi Maggie,
I was looking for crew lists etc for a John Nicoll, so thanks for thinking of me! My John Nicoll thankfully did not die at sea though, he came back to the highlands married and had 6 children, dying in 1865. He was press ganged when he was young, which I understand happened a lot back then.
Thanks anyway ;)
Jenny
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Hi, Jenny,
I'm please to hear that your ancestor didn't die! All these similar names make researching quite difficult for us descendents. Quite a few of mine have various spellings of their names which makes it doubly tricky. Good luck with your further enquires.
Best wishes,
Maggie
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Hi
thanks for the sequence on Edward Mensforth b 1845 Launceston Tasmania.
I'm wondering where I can find birth-baptism record for his sister Charlotte Cecilia
in about 1847. Adelaide perhaps?
Is is plausible that Isabella Mavrios died in childbirth when Edward was born ?
Are there death-burial records to confirm this possibility?
This would explain why Charlotte's mother was Elizabeth.
Although the newspaper records on trove say Elizabeth was in Adealide in 1861
when Ann Mensforth committed suicide [murdered?] it seems she too is still alive
in South Australia....?
gradually the family is coming together in such a sad set of events
Laurel in Sydney
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Hi Laurel,
This family is certainly a very confusing one at times.
I have a note in my research for a possible death for John Mensforth's wife Elizabeth in South Australia as follows:
Elizabeth Mensforth died 19 Dec 1869 Port Adelaide, South Australia aged 55yrs (b abt 1814) - vol 36, pg 510
This actually matches up with the possible birth I have for Isabella Mensforth (nee Marova) in Greece as below:
Isabella Mavrios - 1814 Greece
But from your private tree on Ancestry I see you already have this info, as you have her born in 1814 in Zakynthos (Zakinthos), Ionian Islands, Greece. I do not have either of the certificates for the entries above, as I am still not sure if this is my family or not.
I have just ordered the letters John Mensforth wrote to his family between 1822-1844 from the NLA and will let you know if they have anything of interest in them that may help.
I have not as yet been able to locate a baptism or birth record for Charlotte Cecilia Mensforth...sorry I can't be more help :-\
Would so love to sort this family out...one day!
Jenny
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I have just refreshed my memory of this thread and decided to have another look in TROVE for shipping intelligence from TAS to Adelaide in 1846.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/result?l-state=Tasmania&l-decade=184&l-year=1846&q=%22MANSFORD%22
Isabella, Catherine, Ann, and Thomas named as "MANSFORD" and three children (little ones born in TAS?), from Launceston on the ship Henry - five months after John "MANSFORTH" arrived in Adelaide.
So Isabella was still alive in 1846.
Essie
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How fascinating Essie! Well done ;)
I wonder about the mention of Catherine Mensforth?? Perhaps there is another child older than Ann and Thomas (who were born in Corfu), I think the 3 children would be Amelia, Agnes and possibly Edward? Having been born in Tasmania. As Sarah had died in 1838 and John in 1840. I wonder what happened to Catherine?
So that really does suggest that Isabella is definitely the mother of Edward (born abt 1846).
Perhaps Isabella was also known as Elizabeth? Or Elizabeth may have been her middle name?
Jenny
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Oooh just found this article in Trove, perhaps this sparked the move to Adelaide??
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/66271104?searchTerm=%22catherine%20mansforth%22&searchLimits=
The Cornwall Chronicle (Launceston, Tas) Wednesday 8 October 1845
The Late Robbery at Messrs. Moss and Nathan's — John Mansforth, Elizabeth Mansforth (his wife), Ann and Catherine Mansforth (their two daughters), and Mary Hartigan, were brought up for examination on the charge of robbing Messrs Moss and Nathan, in whose service one of the girls (Ann) had been living as nursemaid. It appearing that Mr. Nathan, one of the principal witnesses, had not returned from Hobart Town, the case was again adjourned, but the Magistrate consented to the male prisoner and his daughter Catherine being discharged on bail.
I wonder how this turned out?
Interesting that this time his wife is named as Elizabeth!!
Jenny