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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Leicestershire => England => Leicestershire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: vivijune on Saturday 02 July 11 16:50 BST (UK)
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I'd appreciate help in looking up any records for an Elizabeth Stevenson. She later married a William Worth Bennett and moved to Tiverton Devon. The census lists her as having been born in Loughborough around 1803.
Her father may have been listed in the 1851 census and I'd be curious to know his occupation or the occupation of any siblings. Also his date of birth and the family name of her mother. I'd like to get closer to how she met William Bennett. What was the connection that put those two together across that kind of distance?
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Hi, i will be in the loughborough library at some time and can look this up but might be next week now.
Diddy
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do you have her fathers details? were they married in L'boro or Devon?
every detail helps.
ta,
Diddy
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Diddy, thank you. The only information I have for Elizabeth's place of birth is from later census entries in Tiverton Devon that show her place of birth as Loughborough.
She married a Bennett in Tiverton and raised her family there. Her daughter Emily is my husband's descendant. We have most of the Bennett/ Bird history moving forward but nothing about Elizabeth's parents or who the Stevensons of Loughborough might have been. Since she was born in 1803 I thought we might be able to find her father's name/ occupation etc and try and dig back from there + see if he lived as long as the 1851 census where there might be some detail.
If you happen to be in the library this week that would be great. Thanks again for responding.
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Just found something that might be useful.
I went back to the Tiverton census records for Elizabeth Bennett (previously Stevenson) to make sure she is recorded as being born in Loughborough and that it wasn't an error.
When I pulled up the Tiverton records for '41,'51 and '61 I found a William Towndrow living next door in '51 and '61 and living nearby in '41. He was also born in Loughborough in 1796 as was his sister Elizabeth Towndrow, born in Loughborough in 1806- the same birth year as Elizabeth (Stevenson) Bennett. He is recorded as a mechanic and his sister as his housekeeper.
In 1841 Elizabeth (Stevenson) Bennett has her mother, Elizabeth Stevenson aged 70, living with her as well as her husband's mother, Mary Worth Bennett aged 70.
So I'm wondering if the Towndrow brother and sister are related to the Stevenson family since they live next door and that perhaps the mother of the Elizabeth born in 1806 might have had the maiden name of Towndrow? Certainly an unusual name.
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ok, that might help - and yes unusual names are better!!
Diddy
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just looked on the IGI:
found William & siblings:
George Townrow 25/3/1792
William 29/5/1794
John 7/2/1796
Elizabeth 16/2/1806
all chr All Saints, loughborough to George & Mary Townrow - will look for link to bennetts or Stevensons
Diddy
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and...
Mary d/o Geo Towndrow 10/4/1757 not sure bout this one
Mary b. 14/2/1798 cchr 24/3/1805 d/o Geo Towndrow
Sarah b 16/12/1799 chr 24/2/1805 " "
Thomas b,5/12/1803 chr 24/2/1805 s/o " "
Diddy
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You found their births! William the mechanic, Elizabeth his housekeeper/sister and Thomas the Publican. It sounds like an old card game!
Your response came in at the same time as I was writing the last one so not sure if it's a coinsidence with William and the other Elizabeth as neighbors. However even if they aren't true family, based on the bithdays of Elizabeth Bennett and Elizabeth Towndrow they are within 3 years of each other in terms of birth, both with memories of Leicestershire. I'm sure the Towndrow sister was a comfort to Elizabeth Bennett over many years when she lost her husband in 1851 and was left to raise her family of 6 children.
Fingers crossed for anything you can dig up on the Stevensons!
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Hello again.
Here's a possible father for Elizabeth Stevenson. She named her first child William Cuthbert (Bennett) after her husband but the second child was christened John Stevenson Bennett. Given that her mother (Elizabeth) is living with her in Tiverton in 1841 and is listed as a widow I looked in Loughborough and found a John Herbert Bennett who died in Loughborough in October of 1839. Of course I can't tell his age but his wife would have been born around 1770 based what's written on that '41 census entry.
Is there a way of checking the age of someone who died on a certain date or does it mean I can only find it out by ordering a death certificate? I'm also wondering if there is a marriage record in Loughborough for a John Stevenson with Elizabeth which would have probably been around 1790- 1805. Also would his occupation be listed on the marriage document and would show her maiden name too?
Thanks in advance for any guidance on this one.
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Not good News I’m afraid.……… :(
1839.
Loughborough Woodgate Baptist Chapel.
Burial Register Entry No'. 839.
John Herbert Stevenson.
Abode. …Loughborough.
8th November.
Aged…….1 year old.
No luck with the Marriage 1800 ~ 37
MIKE. …..
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That's what I was afraid of and what makes this so intriguing, as you say Mike, next to your name...... " The truth is out there somewhere." So instead of being aged 70 at time of death, he was 1 year old but it was worth a try and a dead end but my assumption of a John Stevenson could still hold true though I need to be more flexible on the possible first name. Suspect the marriage to Elizabeth took place just prior to 1800 but only by a few years, maybe a couple.
You've been doing this a long time like Diddy and I'm still learning to do this, so does that 1800 number make a difference in going back? Is it easier to look up a marriage after 1800?
Many thanks.
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Hi - off to the library today so hopefully answer a fwe questions!
sorry its taken so long - i have a few health issues at the moment which means i can't drive / walk far. but desperate to get to the library myself as going potty at home!!
Diddy
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Loughborough records are transcribed and mainly indexed so looking up a particular family is easier than trawling through fiches.
Diddy ;D
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ok here goes:
no mention of an Elizabeth Stevenson in indexes 1748 - 1812 baptisms. there are some Elizabeths but then their deaths are recorded as well.
HOWEVER:
found this marriage:
William Stevenson = Elizabeth Rogers 7/10/1799 L'boro
original says both of this parish / both signed and witnesses John Law & Joseph Webster (parish clerk)
there is also a death:
Wiliam Stevenson 31/1/1810 (no further details)
also found a Bennett /Townrow link:
baptism 10/2/1778 Elizabeth Townrow illeg d/o of Hannah Bennett
looked on IGI Leics and only near baptism for an Eliz:
18/8/1802 Elizabeth Stevenson d/o Thomas Stevenson & Mary Hall. woodhouse eaves Baptist church (nearby village)
Diddy
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I can't thank you enough for going to the records office especially when you didn't feel all that well. You've certainly given me a couple of leads to follow but I do have a couple of questions. First, the Thomas Stevenson/ Mary Hall birth. Does the notation of 2 names imply that they weren't married? I don't think it's going to be those 2 because Mary wasn't her mother's name since they were both Elizabeth. However the William Stevenson/Elizabeth Rogers marriage in July of 1799 might be a stronger possibility but odd there's no baptism of their little girl Elizabeth. I looked back at all the census 51,61,71 etc for her and each time she's noted as born in Loughborough.
I had one breakthrough this afternoon. Remember we couldn't figure out why Elizabeth ended up in Tiverton Devon marrying there in around 1825 since it's so far from Leicestershire. I was starting to think we'd never know! So I happened to be reading about the history of Tiverton and suddenly there was this quote that provides the answer. "Following the Luddite destruction of his lace making machinary in Loughborough John Heathcoat bought and old woollen mill on the River Exe in 1815 and moved his entire lace making operation to Tiverton." So it's likely the Stevensons and Townlows came south as part of that migration. However my understanding from what the family knows about the Bennetts of Tiverton is that their roots were in Devon.
That baptism you found for Elizabeth Towndrow as the illegitimate daughter of a Hannah Bennett, I'm inclined to think that's just the coincidense of a common name but I assume that means a Towndrow was listed as the father and I need to give it some thought. Penny for yours?
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I read back through one of your earlier helpful posts regarding the Towndrows. Now that I know a large number of lace employees came to Tiverton with their families. I can assume the 2 families aren't any relation since there will be a lot of people in Tiverton in the early censuses with born in Loughborough next to their names. So I'll stick with the Towndrows you gave me last week. George and Mary Towndrow from Loughborough had a son George born in 1792, William the mechanic born 1794, John born 1796 and Elizabeth born 1806.
William T is interesting because he's precisely the kind of man Heathcoat needed to maintain and improve the complicated lace bobbin machines or work on his many other inventions like the steam powered plough.
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an old work collegue of mine (when i was librarian ) is a local historian - this is his work and gives a good account of the Luddites in Loughborough and the move to Tiverton:
http://www.loughborough.co.uk/history/luddite.htm
scroll down to john Heathcoat and the Luddites.
2 names doesn't mean they weren't married - ofton maiden names were given for the mother.
i was thinking Eliz might have been born in one of the local villages - these used loughborough which was the registration district. i was hoping the parents marriage might give a clue to this. L'boro library holds village records but they are not indexed like the L'boro ones so impossible to trawl through.
I also checked for other children of that william & Eliz but there are none listed which is unusual if they continued living in L'boro itself so i think that is the right couple.
Diddy
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looking on the family search pilot site i found this one;
Name: Elizabeth Stevenson
Baptism/Christening Date: 05 Nov 1805
Baptism/Christening Place: QUORNDON,LEICESTER,ENGLAND
Father's Name: John Stevenson
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Source Film Number: 592598
Collection: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
worth a thought as Quorn is the next village down south from L'bro. couple of miles only.
Diddy
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Diddy, I'm going to send back 2 replies because now we are talking about 2 separate subjects: identifying the right Stevenson parents and the strong connection with the Heathcoat Lace Factory + the Luddite event that caused them to begin a new life in Devon. Your help has been absolutely invaluable and has opened up an area of our family history that would have remained forgotten. I don't think there was any hint of this involvement with the lace making industry that may well have lasted for 3 or more generations and it makes the discovery of a whole new area and new people so exciting.
On the subject of John Heathcoat, the ramifications of the Luddite destruction of his factory and his consequent decision to move most of his work force to Tiverton, please thank your historian friend for his contribution to the subject by writing such a concise, thorough and interesting piece that not only captures the social upheaval involved but also the determination to commence lace production again in a distant corner of England.
The irony for me is that I just spent the last 3 months tracing my ancestors in Bedforshre, many of whom were pillow lacemakers only to find out yesterday that my husband's family was highly involved in the machine aspect of the same trade!Last night we were able to pull up google earth and based on census entries and street names we could see that the Bennett/Stevenson Family lived a couple of minutes walk from that 5 storey Tiverton factory and for some of that time in what looks like company housing.
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Thanks so much for pursuing this further by finding what well might be the correct Stevensons, this time in the nearby village of Quorndon. Let me give a couple of reasons why it might well be the right one. First, the christening date for the baby is only a month shy of 1806. The mother's name is Elizabeth. If that baby also called Elizabeth was an only child it might account for why she has not only her 70 year old mother living with her in 1841 in Tiverton but also has her husband's mother of the same age (Mary (Worth) Bennett.
It's also revealing how William Worth Bennett and Elizabeth named their Devon children born between 1826 and 1840. The first, William Cuthbert Bennett (named after her husband.) Second is John Stevenson Bennett (named for her father.) which would match this record you found. Third is Josiah Worth Bennett (second name for William's mother's family.) Selena Wesley (assumed to be named for John Wesley since there's a strong methodist link moving forward.)
Assuming John Stevenson moved his family to Tiverton with Heathcoat, he would have died prior to the 1841 census which I know complicates things. I assume he died in the town so there must be a record of his death? Also I'm still really curious about what he did for a living. Based on your experience of following these leads, is there any way to find that out? Would his occupation be on Elizabeth's birth certificate or his death certificate?
Last, John Stevenson was in all likelihood a methodist, does that change the search for these records in Loughborough or Tiverton? Would it be more likely there wouldn't be earlier Stevenson gravestones in that village C. of E. churchyard in Quorndon?
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checked the family search pilot site (find this easier to use than new one)
these seem to be siblings for that Elizabeth, all Quorn
Ann 10/6/1810
Thomas 12/9/1813
Joseph 23/7/1815
John 5/7/1818
we need to see if this family are still local in the 1841 so we can rule them in or out.
Diddy
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just found a link through the leics villages site to Quorn village museum site which has some PRs online.
marriage: 1804 05-Nov Stevenson John, Lewin Elizabeth
no occupation. putting stevenson in search...
http://www.quornmuseum.com/search.php?searchterm=stevenson&submit.x=75&submit.y=12
Diddy
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transcriptions of gravestones in parish church does not contain a John Stevenson - only 3 stevensons. can't find this family in 1841 census (also on site by surname) so think this could be right family. John probably died in Tiverton.
might be worth asking about his death on the Devon board. local knowledge always the best.
Diddy
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bingo! just googled 'John stevenson of Tiverton' and found a:
List of the known original workforce that went from Loughborough, Leicestershire to Tiverton, Devon in 1816
from a dissertation.
This list was extracted from the Parish Magazine of St Paul's C of E Church Tiverton, which itself had contained an extract from a 1939 issue of the Loughborough Echo
it lists:
John Stevenson Not stated Loughborough
not stated = occupation but listed as ' are those that John Heathcoat and Company possessed record of in 1938 as coming from Loughborough'
Diddy
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AND from same document:
John Stevenson became superintendent of the Congregational Sunday School Tiverton.
might be worth trying to find /contact the church in Tuverton
Diddy
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sorry = site i got that info from:
http://www.rjoram.com/loughlist
Diddy ;D
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Diddy, you're amazing! I mean it! There I was just a week ago putting up a routine question, starting with the earliest name of an ancestor, querying why a Bennett in Tiverton married a young woman from Loughborough so far away from Leicestershire and out comes this wonderful complex story of the Industrial Revolution. At 11 years old she was part of an exodus of lacemakers who left their old lives behind them and and move with Heathcoat. According to the Tiverton Museum website "500 men, women and children walked to Tiverton to form the nucleus of his new workforce" in a factory that later employed 2000.
Yes, walked! What a bond he must have had with those people. No wonder he was good to their widows and educated their children. I'll contact the Tiverton Museum directly and see what else they have that might relate to John Stevenson who was actually on that list of workers you sent and see if they hold information in their archive passed on from the original Heathcoat Factory.
Thanks so much for hanging in with me on this one and helping to assemble so much rich detail.
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Diddy, would you please confirm...... I know you found John Stevenson in Tiverton including his chapel record but we still need to rule out that other Elizabeth and her brothers back in Quorn. As you suggested, I checked the 1841 and 51 census and those brothers Thomas, Joseph and John are a smith and 2 ag labs living in the village next to Quorn- Barrow on Soar. So we know they aren't the family. Maybe I've got confused doing this but do we still have the likely couple called John and Elizabeth and would you confirm that they are from Quorn and not Loughborough? By the way that Quorn Village Historic Site is great, like you I was even able to see the list of tombstones. They've done a great job.
Seeing the list of those original lace workers that left I noticed Towndrow but also William Cuthbert which accounts for why they called their first son was named William Cuthbert Bennett. Perhaps he was the godfather. Like Stevenson he doesn't have an occupation listed beside his name whereas most on the list do.
Would John Stevenson's occupation be listed on the marriage certificate for William Bennett and Elizabeth when they married in the mid 1820's? I haven't ordered one before but I assume they are available from Devon and the father's occupation would be there? Thanks again.
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i was assuming that the 5 children - Eliz ,Ann,Thomas,joseph,john were all siblings and children of John & Eliz of Quorn. are you sure the ones you found on census are the same people?
you will not get a full cert for an 1820's marriage - its before 1837. you may still get an occupation on the original record which will be in parish records.
not sure what to do to confirm right children/family. hope the tiverton museum can help. let me sleep on it!
Diddy
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I found 3 men living in Barrow Upon Soar (next to Quorndon) on the 1841 census. Two are living together Thomas and Joseph Stevenson. All show place of birth as simply Leicestershire.
Their ages are Thomas 25 and Joseph 20. (This is the1841 census and therefore age #were rounded.) Living on another village street is John with the age of 25. I looked for them on the 1851 and 1861 and 1871 census and there's no record I can see so there's no real date of birth or notation of village born for any of them.
The baptism dates you gave me were as follows: Thomas 1813 (1816 on '41 census) Joseph 1815 (1821 on the '41 census) and John 1818 (1816 on the '41 census)
It seems to me this isn't the family. Apart for them seeming to have stayed in the locality I would have thought it difficult for a family to go on the road and cross 250 miles of England with toddlers. If John was baptized in 1818 it would be after the group of workers had left. If the Luddite destruction happened in 1816 I would have thought the migration would have taken place in 1817.
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yes - I had that thought - heathcote although visiting Devon at the time of the attack (Malcolms work) was not expecting to move so quickly. therefore i suspect the men would have gone with him and the wives /children followed later. As john was young (don't forget he could have been born year or so before baptism) the family may have stayed as bit longer or the boys returned before 1841 to family.
Theory - you were looking for a Stevenson family with wife Eliz & daughter Eliz moved L'boro to Devon - we found a stevenson family John with a wife Eliz & daughter Eliz moved L'boro to Devon. seems to me this must be the family.
suggestions for plan of action:
*you can check with Tiverton musem for details of that family
*you could put a request on the Devon board here for any details of Johns death
*you can chaase up Eliz & Williams marriage - the original might just have John as a witness
*I can check the baptism records of the children in L'boro library for extra detail /Johns occupation
*I can check John & Elizs marriage for same
*I can look in L'boro marvellous local history room for extra Luddite details relating to the men who moved - John Heathcote is BIG in this town so suspect there may be books /photos etc.
* i can check the L'boro 1811 census to see whos about.
my only problrm is transport at the moment as health problem means i can't drive /walk far - but if i get a lift (son has car) I'm on the case - well in myself but got vertigo. need something to do so this is great!!
Diddy
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I have exciting if confusing news!
Thanks for your enthusiasm and help Diddy.
Prior to start posting on the Devon board regarding a death for the father of Elizabeth Bennett I looked at deaths in Tiverton. I noticed a death for a John Stevenson in 1866, aged 67, who I think might be Elizabeth's brother because he's born in Loughborough! I checked him out on the Tiverton 1851 census where he is listed as superintendant of a factory. In 1861 he is listed as Superintendant of machinary at a lace factory! Checking his address he looks as if he's living with his wife, Jane, and an only child Emma in Heathcoat company housing near the factory just like the widowed Elizabeth! If this is true he and his sister would have walked with their mother Elizabeth, across England. Her date of birth (based on census etc) is 1779 in Loughborough.
This is where it's going to get confusing in Devon. This younger John Stevenson would have been old enough to be counted on that list of the original list of workers you sent over yesterday. He would have been 17 in 1816. I thought I caught site of another Stevenson name- William Stevenson lower down. We've been assuming the father of Elizabeth was John but where did we get the idea that it had to be John for sure? Maybe she named her child John Stevenson Bennett for her brother AND father, or maybe she named him for her brother only, which leaves it open that her father could have had a different first name.
Since there should be a record of their baptisms in Loughborough for Elizabeth I just want to verify that on her death certificate she is listed as being born in 1803,. On 2 census there's a mistake in her age but taken from 61,71, and 81 census, those would make her born in 1803 too.
This keeps getting better and better!
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Correction. Only John Stevenson is on the original list of Heathcoat employees (males only.) Some have a notation of their occupation but not him. There's also a statement on that list saying it's incomplete. Only 30 men are listed and for there to have been 500 people in total making the exodus I would have thought there needed to be 2-3 times that number.
I was mistaken when it comes to William Stevenson. He's not listed on that original list instead he's showing up further down as being one of the people who had a Loughborough birthplace on the 1851 census. I found him (born 1805 in Loughton, Loughborough)and in the 51 census he's listed as a smith born in and in 61 as a smith in a lace factory. He would have been 12 or 13 when he left for Devon.
He may or may not be a sibling of Elizabeth or John but it would give one other name in the Loughborough baptism records to look for in case he is. Birthdays of John 1799, Elizabeth 1803 and William 1805 are so close together.
(Although 2 of those Quorndon/Barrow on Soar names are the same, I also found a death for an Elizabeth in BOS so I think that verifies that that that family stayed in the Quorndon area and can be dropped.)
Many thanks again, this is certainly fun and sorting this out keeps the brain sharp!
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spent a short time in Library this morning.
bad news /good news?
John Stevenson of Quorn was a farmer according to 3 of his childrens baptisms so i think we can rule him out unfortunatley.
that leaves the marrigae of William Stevenson = Elizabeth Rogers 7/10/1799 loughborough but i couldn't find any children baptised there for him.
the heathcote records - i found the original dissertation that we saw extracts online from. it says that a lot of the people who went were baptists so i suppose its possible that daughter Elizabeth was born Loughborough but might have been baptised Tiverton as baptists baptise later / as adults.
there are some baptist records in L'boro but didn't have the cabinet keys up stairs and can't trek up and down so next time.. there was a letter apparantly sent from Tiverton back to the L'boro baptists so there might be a list of who went from the community in 1816.
there was more in the dissertation about the journey:
treadition has it that they went along the Fosse Way (old A46) south of Leicester / to Cirencester /then west to Wiltshire through the vale of taunton. the summer was the wettest on record and some took their frames with them.
the Tiverton workers did not welcome them with open arms and some men did not like the fact that 1. they had to sign an agreement of 21s a week ( less than L'boto pay on reduced wages) for 5 years. so some set up on their own and eventually opened another factory.
next time i can check the local paper although i think the dissertation lady probably got info from there. also the baptist records.
you could put a query on the Devon board for Eliz baptism in Tiverton?
Diddy
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Thanks you so much for going into the library yesterday and finding that original dissertation on the migration. Is there any way I could obtain a copy? Please let me know if there is.
The picture of that exodus of people is getting more and more interesting. Not exactly a surprise that Tiverton people were less than thrilled to have 500 newcomers showing up one day walking through Taunton Vale 1n 1816. Apart from the 500 number of strangers, Loughborough people would sounded different. Question: when you say "workers did not welcome them with open arms" does that mean Heathcoat had a second lace factory already in operation in Devon or was it just town's people's reaction?
As you say it looks like the likely parents are William Stevenson and Elizabeth Rogers married in 1799. As we've discussed there are likely to be 3 children who may found in the Loughborough baptist records when you can finally get to them. Your point about baptisms happening later is a good one. (Again, can't thank you enough for your continued interest and help.)
I will go on the Devon board today and see if they are showing up after 1816 baptized as teenagers in Tiverton. I'm very interested in that letter from the Tiverton baptists to the same in Loughborough. It could be very revealing.
Also, if workers signed an working agreement for wages at 21 shillings there should be a list of workers who signed the document or simply a list of original workers. I assume it would be in the Heathcoat company records or the Tiverton Museum has it, if one exists. If we've found the right father for Elizabeth 1803 , there should be a William Stevenson, her father, as well as the 17 year old brother, John Stevenson on that list. (Possible son William -the smith, would have been too young to show up.)
Off to post on the Devon Board!
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according to the records - heathcote was already looking into opening a factory before the attacks in L'boro. he may have already got it going with Tiverton people but took his skilled workforce with him. i only quickly scanned through the dissertation but it looks really readable. i will get the full details for you.
Diddy
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Wonderful. Those details in the dissertation are fascinating. My husband and I were talking this weekend about what an influx it was and how the whole make up of the town must have changed dramatically, almost overnight. I was going to try to find the population of Tiverton in 1816 because 500 strangers with Leicestershire accents merging with the Devonians with theirs would have been interesting to behold and listen to. It's almost inevitable there was friction. However what shines through as time passes on, especially on the 1861 Tiverton census, was how the prosperity of the town went up.
I posted on the Devon board just now. Hopefully it's still possible to see if those Stevenson children are in the Loughborough baptism records for the Baptist Church. By the way, where was the letter kept you said Tiverton Baptists sent to Loughborough and what was the date?
Cheers.... Vivien
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i need to look into that more thoroughly. the letter was mentioned in the dissertation as being sent from Tiverton to London so I'm hoping it might be in the Baptist records. i have looked at these before for someone else. they consist of about 5 books of minutes /records of the woodgate baptist church inl'boro. they include names of baptisms /deaths etc and details of important happenings within the church community. this is why i hope there might be some details. however i can't remember what date they go back to - hope its far enough.
you might be interested in this site of local leics sayings!! - I'm sure we don't all speak like this (i certainly don't as my parents were Geordies from Tyneside!) but most of us do say ay up (me duck) for hello!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/leicester/around_leicester/2002/11/leicester_dialect_collins_english_dictionary.shtml
Diddy ;D
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My Bedfordshire relatives used to say "my duck" too. When I was a kid I used to keep them talking hoping they'd say it as in "Thankyou, my duck."
Those Baptist records sound intriguing. Fingers crossed they go back to 1800 or somewhere close.
I noticed on the Tiverton census of 1851 it says of William (who we know may or may not be their brother) born in Loughton Leicestershire. Is that near Loughborough?
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the only laughton in Leics i think is in Harborough district which is right in the south as opposed to Loughborough in the North west. see:
http://www.leicestershirevillages.com/
Diddy
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it seems the Stevenson family were BIG in the L'boro baptist world. in fact at the time of the Luddite attack the president of the L'bro baptist church was a Thomas Stevenson - who had several children who also were well known as revds.
there is no original list of all the people who went to Tiverton - one of the pamphlets in the industry box has a letter by some else hunting members of his family. the letter from the Tiverton museum says clearly that there is no complete list. the extended list containing people in the 1851 Tiverton census born L'boro contains William Stevenson age 46 b . Loughborough.
the baptist letter is not in the files but the entry in the minutes book of the church feb 23 1817 says:
'a letter from brother william powell of Tiverton read stating that the brothers there have prayer meetings on sunday evenings and their hearers increase. They think they want only a minister to establish a cause among them and wish for the advise of the church.
The church is happy to hear of their success & recommend that they have two opportunities of worship instead of one onthe Lords day, and let us know of their ? success.
Agreed that this committee propose the cases of the candidates and bring them forward.'
writing is tiny so hope that is right! I looked either side of the june 1816 date but couldn't see any mention of the leaving of members.
have 2 pages of an article to attach but won't let me here.
Diddy
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sent PM..
Diddy
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Excellent work, honestly, thanks so much for looking in those records.
So Thomas Stevenson was president of the Loughborough Baptist Church at the time of the Luddite attack. You say he had several children and were well known as revds. Does that mean preachers. Just wondering about their names. Which ones stayed in Loughborough and which ones ended up in Tiverton.
Do you think that Thomas (married to Elizabeth) was the father of Elizabeth and John + the William Stevenson listed on that 1851 Tiverton census. His wife was listed as a widow living with her daughter in 1841. I'm very curious about what he did for a living. If he was President of the Baptist Church in Leicestershire he might have been one of Heathcoat's core people especially since his son John became superintendant of machinery at the new factory by the 1850/60's. He could have followed in his father's footsteps.
You say there isn't any mention of people going south but I wonder if Thomas simply disappears from the Loughborough records? Did you happen to notice that? By the way I did get a reply on the Devon board with a link to the Baptist Church in Tiverton, I've been gone so I'll take a look at that today.
I'm also wondering if there's a record of a Thomas and Elizabeth marriage in Loughborough Baptist records probably around 1791? Elizabeth would have been 20 at the time because I have her birth date as 1771. If he married an Elizabeth it would be an indication that we have the right person at last! What do you think?
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sorry to disappoint - but there no way Thomas is our man - he was born 1779 in Notts and married Ann Hall of leake. he moved to L'boro 1811 and they had
about 7 children i think. have dates of some of them - john 1807 - 1878 was a pastor too in Derby /notts/Ilkeston; william Rawson stevenson 1823 -1889; Edward 1812 - 1896; thomas 1805 -1887 died in leics.
however i think it does mean that our stevensons were prob baptists, related in some way and that Eliz may have ben bap Tiverton.
maybe Mike can search the N/C records in leic record office.
Diddy
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I checked the Tiverton Baptist records and it seems these Stevenson's weren't Baptists. There is a record of a Stevenson birth in the baptist records 1828 for a Charles Cross Stevenson but it doesn't match the children of son John (who had Emma) or probable son William. John became the superintendant of the Congregational Church so maybe I can contact the church but it doesn't necessarily help me with the father.
However, knowing that male Stevenson was not living at the time of the 1841 census I did find a William Stevenson who died at Tiverton in 1840. I'm wondering if there is a marriage record for William and Elizabeth in Loughborough. around 1790-1800. I've been focused on birth records but maybe a marriage record might show up. Maybe this William was born outside Loughborough and come to town to work in the lace industry.
My husband also suggested tracking down the William Cuthbert from the original list of workers who came to Tiverton. That first child of the Bennetts was named for him. I checked and he's dead by 1841 however no death record so before 1837. I did find a Thomas Cuthbert in the Tiverton census who might be his brother listed as a smith. Unfortuneately he's passed away too before the 1851 census which would have shown his place of birth. Maybe Cuthbert and Stevenson moved into Loughborough together as young men.
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Hi, i gave you the marriage of William & Elizabeth some time ago:
William Stevenson = Elizabeth Rogers 7/10/1799 Loughborough
I can check on william cuthbert. also forgot to check 1811 census in L'boro - only lists head of households and number of males/females but might help as nearest to 1816 departure.
Diddy
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Realized after sending last message, it's William and Elizabeth Rogers that are the couple with their 1799 marriage. I found a death in Diverting for a William Stevenson who died in June of 1840 right before the 1841 census where she is listed as a widow. His birth may well have been 1769 in Loughborough because there is a William recorded. That would make him a year older than his wife.
Thanks for looking into William Cuthbert. He didn't live to the 1841 census in Tiverton either which might make him around the same age of William who would have been 47 when he walked with his family for those 200 miles.
I was sent a link to the IGI and noticed that the Loughborough Parish records of births seem to be missing all entries between 1800 and 1812 which is exactly the time period for those children.
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Greeting’s…....Folks.
Has Diddy knows I’m away on
" An International Scout Camp " this week..
But just using the data from my disk drive on Laptop………
1811. Head Count Loughborough. ( Part only )
Fiches No's DE 667 / 188 / 1 ~2.
Entry No's 1 ~ 535.
Thomas Cuthbert. Trade. …a Smith. 3 Males 2 F/Males.
Richard Stevenson. Trade….Lab. 2 Males. 2 F/Males.
John Stevenson….Trade. Trimmer. 3 Males. 2 F/Males.
William Stevenson. Trade. Needle Maker. 2 Male. 1 F/Male.
Thomas Stevenson. Trade. …Breaches Maker. 2 Males. 2 F/males.
M. Hethcote. Trade. Lace fastener. 1 Male. 4. F/Males.
Thomas Powell. Trade. Grocer. ….1 Male 1 F/Male.
William Powell. Book Keeper. 1 male. 2 F/Males.
Regarding any Baptisms for a child of the Baptist Faith.
Then Children Did NOT get Baptised until they reached the age of an Adult
We Might get a “ Notification of birth Record “
MIKE. …….. .Off to my Sleeping Bag time now……. ;)
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Thanks for the 'head count' for 1811 Loughborough especially when you're obviously so busy. Sounds like a great trip. Looking forward to anything else you find but if it waits until you get back that's fine too.
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Clarification :~
Head Count 1811 for Loughborough
The numbers stated are the TOTALS
For Male or F/Males above 20 yrs old within that household
If under 20 then they would have been counted as Boy's or Girls …….
MIKE. ……Still away on Camp …. ;)
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baptism:
William Stevenson 19/5/1769 s/o William & Ann stevenson L'boro
also found 6 siblings.
so the william on the 1811 could be yours with wife Elizabeth (Rogers) and still have a daughter Eliz not on census.
Diddy
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Nice to hear from you again and thanks.
If I'm reading this correctly, you're saying the 1769 William who is the son of William and Ann is the one who married Eliabeth Rogers and the daughter (Elizabeth) happens to be missing from the census.
Also could we eliminate this one? We know that John (the son who goes to Tiverton and ends up being superintendant of machinery at the Heathcoat factory in the 1850's onwards born in 1800) and Elizabeth (who marries William Bennett born 1803) have a mother Elizabeth but this is what I find to be odd.
The official list you sent over that pieced together the list of original workers says that a John Stevenson became superintendant of the Congregational Sunday school. The younger John Stevenson I've just mentioned is active in the Wesleyan chapel and his children are christened there alongside Elizabeth's children in the late 1828- 1840. I've looked at the records. So is there a possibility we are still looking for a John born in Loughborough who is their father and there are 2 Johns?
Sorry to go round and round with this but odd to have what would seem like 2 John Stevensons very involved with 2 different churches. Maybe I should be asking Mike to double check John too on that 1811 census?
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Congregationalist Church in Tiverton is a Grade 2 listed building and was built in 1843 so it sounds as if a superintendant of a Sunday School would be needed after that date. To be a superintendent implies a large number of children. Perhaps they worshiped in a temporary building at that time.
Based on later census John's children christened in the Wesleyan Chapel don't seem to have survived early childhood except one, Emma. Maybe he ended up leaving the Wesleyans and joined the Congregationalists in later life. I'll look again on the web but it looked as if that Church on Chapel Street isn't in operation any more and even the street name has changed.
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I'd like to say a sincere thankyou for all the help you gave me uncovering so much information that would have remained hidden and unknown without your hard work on my family's behalf.
Instead I'm able to pass on to my nephews and nieces as well as my step children the fact that they are descended from fascinating Leicestershire people who took part in a little known but extraordinary migration.
It's a shining example of how interesting working class history can be. I thank you for all your efforts in helping to assemble such a vivid picture of the Stevenson past.
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Hi,
I am a decendant of a William Stevenson born in Loughborough c.1805. He moved to Tiverton where he was a Machine Smith in a lace factory. He married Elizabeth Beck on 20/12/1838 and had 4 children His son was named William Thomas Stevenson.
On the 1841 census he lived at Back Lane, Tiverton.
On the 1851 census he lived at Bridge Street, Tiverton.
On the 1861 census he lived at Melbourne Street, Tiverton.
William senior died in Tiverton on 13/07/1866.
I think there may be a family link to John Stevenson and I would appreciate any help/information anyone has regarding this.
Thanks
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Really good to hear from you, I'll be happy to share what I have and much of it is contained in this thread, as you can see Diddy and I really went to town on this one!
I'll respond again after the weekend. As you can tell my husband is descended from the middle Stevenson child, Elizabeth who married William Bennett, an accountant at the lace factory. He died so young @40 and left her widowed with 7 children to raise. Her mother Elizabeth Stevenson lived with them until she died. Elizabeth Bennett, first lived in Betts Court (1841) then Leat St (1851) and Bridge Buildings (1861). Her husband was listed on the 1841 census but died in December of that year. Her youngest child, Sydney was unborn at the time of his death and came into the world late in the following spring of 1842.
I've imagined her brothers, John and William being a support for her as she raised all those small children in the town with all eight growing to adulthood, so it's nice to be acquainted with someone who is descended from William the smith!
Happy New Year to you and yours.
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Thanks!! I look forward to hearing from you again and learning more about my family.
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Since you have the birth for William, your ancestor I'm curious to wonder if you researched his family in Loughborough. His mother was Elizabeth Rodgers before she married.
Interesting how Elizabeth (Stevenson) Bennett named her children. Her eldest was named John Stevenson (I assume after her brother.) Second male child was William Cuthbert named, I assume for 3 Williams: her husband William Bennett, her brother your ancestor and her father who died in 1840 in Tiverton. William was also named for Thomas Cuthbert who was on the March.
Only Thomas Cuthbert and John Stevenson are mentioned on the original list of workers that you've probably seen. A lot of workers are missing including William the father. John Stevenson was old enough to be listed as a worker and went on to be superintendant of machines in the lace factory. Your William wouldn't have been on the list because he was only 11 when he walked across country.
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I have no information on William Stevenson born on Loughborough c.1805.
I have information on his son, William Thomas Stevenson- Birth, marriage and death certificates, plus census information.
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If you go back into this thread and read back and I know it's a long one, the marriage of William Stevenson to Elizabeth Rogers took place in Loughborough in 1799 so their eldest son John was born in the town a couple of years later, as is my Elizabeth in 1803 and your William in 1805. It looks as if William, the father was a needlemaker based on the 1811 census, which would have been a skill important to Heathcoat before precision needles were mass produced. We know that this family unit moved to Tiverton.
I went back and matched up births for a William and Ann Stevenson in Loughborough and found six births. ( I would love to know Ann's maiden name.) They had a son called William christened in May of 1769 who would have been the husband of Elizabeth Rogers. A brother, John died at aged one leaving William with younger sisters, Mary 1774 and two Elizabeths, the first one born in 1778 and dying as a baby, and the second born in 1780. Last was Hannah born in 1781. It would be interesting to see who those female children married because for all we know they may have married lacemakers and were along on the March from Loughborough to Tiverton too! Then we could match it with the 1851 and 1861 census in Tiverton or Loughborough if they stayed behind. So we are left with questions about Mary, Elizabeth and Hannah who probably married around the same time as their brother if they married at all.
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Happy to have a look for these marriages Viv.
Diddy
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Many thanks once again, Diddy for looking onto some more marriages for the siblings of William Sr, the father of the William who married Elizabeth Rogers and even the maiden name of his wife Ann.
Interesting now to come across someone else who is trying to unravel the Stevenson's but from the youngest brother William's perspective. I let Prof know that although we know from the census in Tiverton in the 1840's onwards that 3 siblings were born to William and Elizabeth (1801, 1803 and 1805,) we never did find the birth records in Loughborough even though you didn't leave a stone unturned! I've since speculated that since Loughborough Stevensons were pillars of the Baptist Church in the town maybe they went to Tiverton and became Wesleyans there. This would account for their children who made the March in their early teens missing the "adult" baptism. Elizabeth and William Jr's families were certainly strong Wesleyans in Devon.
Nice to be back in touch and thanks in advance for helping out again.
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Prof has just posted a possible bap for a William (although may be too early -1766) on the Lucy Darby thread.
Diddy
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no sorry - my mistake - i was looking at William 1805!!
Too many williams ;D
Diddy
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baptism:
William Stevenson 19 May 1769 s/o William & Ann Stevenson L'boro
marriage:
William Stevenson otp = Ann Jarram otp 17 July 1766 lboro
both signed.
witnesses: mary Stevenson & ? (illegible)
children of William & Ann from L'boro index 1749 - 1791
William 19/5/1769
Mary 15/2/1771 bur 9/1/1773
Ann 12/9/1772
John 11/5/1776 bur 16/2/1777
Elizabeth 14/2/1778 bur 3/5/1780
Elizabeth 9/9/1780
Hannah 27/8/1781
there was not a baptism for a William Stevenson 1749 - 1769
Diddy
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Hi Diddy,
This is fantastic, I can't tell you how pleased I am with your findings!
I have been researching my family since 2000 and since 2002 I haven't found any new information. It was pure chance I found you. I typed into Google, "Stevenson family, Loughborough and Tiverton." The search result brought up the link to Rootschat and I read your posts.
My family are going to be thrilled, I only wish my father was alive. He would have been very interested to find out about the march the family made to Tiverton from Loughborough.
I am going to see if there is any information on this site for the Beck, Strong and Tapscott families who lived in Tiverton and are my ancestors.
Well done Diddy-thank you!
Prof
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Well done, Diddy once again, from me too as well as Prof! The Jerram link (Ann) is another piece of the puzzle that's falling into place and providing interesting back story to the Stevenson family before they left Loughborough after the Luddite event.
We may be asking for help on the Rogers side of the Loughborough family but will doublecheck a birth date before posting.
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Greeting’s……Prof......& Welcome to the Leicestershire Boards……….
To start the ball rolling for your other Families
1810. Head count ( Forerunner to the Censuses )
For Loughborough.
BECK.
Robert Beck Snr. Labourer
1 Male …1 Female within the Household.
.Robert Beck. Jnr Grocer. …..
2 Males …..2 Females within the Household.
Strong & Tapscott did not appear on the list ….Sorry. :'(
MIKE. …..
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Hi,
Thank you for taking an interest in helping me find more relatives. My head is spinning with the Stevenson link- lots more research to do!!
Cheers
Prof
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Prof ordered the death certificate for the William Stevenson who died in Tiverton and he shared it with me this morning. Exciting to have confirmation! It turns out the William Stevenson we now know is definitely our ancestor, who was 69 at time of death in 1840 which makes him born in 1771. This exactly matches the birthdate of the William who was the son of William Stevenson and Ann (Jerram) Stevenson born in Loughborough. We also know based on his widow's notation on the 1841 on census in Devon that her name was Elizabeth.
This is where things get strange. When I go onto FamilySearch and check around I come across a marriage of a William Stevenson in Loughborough to Elizabeth Rogers in 1797 but this person dies in 1799, much to early to have had 3 children in 1801, 1803 and 1805 respectively. There are several entries in Familyserchof the same death. It also states that this William who died in 1799, is the son of John Stevenson and Sarah Parker not the parents stated above and he was born in 1772. Then if I pull up Elizabeth Rogers, I find her birth as 1775 but also a record of her marriage to a William Stevenson on October 7th, 1799 as well as 1797.
So I've got 2 questions. Can Familysearch records be incorrect, have a record mixed up? Or could it be possible she married 2 men called William Stevenson since we have evidence of different birthdates- perhaps cousins, one dying early in the year? I know that sounds far fetched! I also tried calling up other men of that name who married a woman called Elizabeth in a wide date range of date for Leicestershire who might have been the father of her children and there aren't any.
Any help for Prof and I sorting this out or any other theories would be appreciated. Obviously we would like to explore down the Rogers line but can't do that until we're sure.
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on the case....! nothing to do next week as pantomime finishs today with 2 performances - oh yes it does!!
Diddy ;D
ps viv - back driving and completely well - work after 1/2 term.
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Many thanks for helping and nice to know your update.
While you're at it would you mind seeing if you can find a father or parents for Elizabeth Rogers just in case we have the correct Elizabeth. When I pull up Elizabeth Rogers she isn't showing any ancestry so I'm hitting a wall.
There's always the possibility her family didn't originate in Loughborough but moved there.
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confirmed date of marriage:
William Stevenson = Elizabeth Rogers 7/10/1799 L'bor
from index - wil check on fiche.
nothing in indexes at all for Elizabeth Rogers (or any other Rogers) or stevenson. wil check that burial as well.
Diddy
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no record in 1799 of a burial of William stevenson.
confirmed baptism:
28/12/1772 william s/oJohn & Sarah Stevenson L'bro
Diddy
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marriage confirmed (may have looked at this before)
William Stevenson = Elizabeth Rogers 7/10/1799 L'boro
were the records you saw on family search extracts (from originals) or submitted?
didn't find the 1772 william before because not in indices - original not as clear as some.
the 1772 bap fits your death better age = 1771. the 1769 one i found s/o william & Ann just little older.
not sure we can confirm for certain which is yours?
Diddy
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I've been out of touch for a few days so many thanks for doing this sleuth work once again.
Would you mind clarifying..... are you saying it may be hard to sort out which William is ours- John and Sarah Stevenson baptized their child in December of 1772 which matches best with the death record that shows the William who died in Tiverton was born in 1771. Our other option is the William Stevenson/ Ann Jerram birth in May of 1769 which now seems less likely because as you say the christening would have been at age 3 which doesn't seem all that likely. It seems to me, and I'll run this by Prof is we go with John and Sarah as parents. This might also account for the choice of John as a name for the first child of William and Elizabeth Rogers.
I'll check Family Search to see if the records were 'submitted' on that William Stevenson. It seems that his marriage (in 1797) may be in error and also this death (in 1799). Again you weren't able to find either. I didn't come across of death for a William Stevenson in Loughborough in 1811 so maybe that's the correct death record for this other William.
Thanks so much!
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hi viv, yes thats what i was trying to say :P very confusing with so many names alike.
Diddy ;D
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Prof has ordered the death certificate for the Elizabeth Rogers who married in 1799 in Loughborough and died in Tiverton in 1848. We figure that certificate will give us her age. Since you were unable to find any trace of Rogers in Loughborough, maybe there's a way if we have her age and then her birth year to look at Leicestershire in general and see if we can see a birth in the county rather than the town.
Does that make sense to you?
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Diddy.
Prof obtained the death certificate for Elizabeth Stevenson who died in Tiverton in 1848. Her age is given as 77 years which makes her born in 1771 (same as her husband William.) When I pull up Family Search there are submitted records that vary for the only Elizabeth Rogers that comes up and seem vague on the birthdate as 1776 or 1778. Remember their is a duplicate marriage record also 'submitted' that is clearly wrong.
Did you say you couldn't find any record for a Rogers Family in Loughborough? I'm wondering if now we have the correct birth year of 1771, the records might show father and mother etc.
Thanks again for hanging in with us on this one...
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looking back at my notes - i checked the index 1791 - 1812 for Rogers/Rodgers (all under one spelling) but not sure what dates i checked for baptism for Eliz,
will be back in prob wed pm. = lots of music lessons tomorrow ;D
Diddy
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On Family Search I found the following for Rogers in Loughborough. Odd hardly anything for the 1700's.
John Rogers born in the town in 1666. Father was noted as William.
Richard Rogers born in 1634. He has a daughter called Mary recorded in 1663. (Maybe William and Richard are siblings?)
Here are miscellaneous Rogers for the same period possibly children of Richard and William.
Margaret Rogers born in 1644.
Hester Rogers born in 1652.
Mary Rogers born in 1663.
John Rogers born in 1666.
Richard Rogers born in 1672. (Perhaps this was Richard's son and Mary's brother?)
The only mention of Rogers in the 1700's is James Rogers born in 1767- no mention of his father's name. He could have been the brother of our Elizabeth Rogers Stevenson who died in Tiverton because she was born in 1771 though Family Search has her born in either 1776 or 7 which is incorrect based on he death certificate.
Good luck and thanks Diddy for offering to search 1680-1780.
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L'boro bmd indexes:
1587 - 1621 no Rogers
1621 -1650 listed below
1650 - 1749 no index
the fiche records around 1630 - 1670's that i looked at are very small writing/ faint & extremely difficult to read. as my vision has been slightly affected by my illness i didn't struggle with them so these bmd are from the indexes only:
Dorothy Roger bur 25 /10/1627
Elizabeth Rogers d/o Roger & joanne, wheelwright 20/9/1640
George Rogers, wheelwright married joanne Hinckly, spinster 28/1/1639
Margaret Rogers d/o John , a stranger & jane 29/7/1646
(this might be the margaret you found on family search as 1644)
THEN looked at the leics IGI on fiche &found:
Elizabeth Rogers b. abt 1775 loughborough
relative; james Stevenson??
Diddy
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Well, there were a few surprises. Many thanks again. I'm glad you didn't strain your eyes too much and I fully understand. But this is really good information. Wonderful to obtain such early records including the Dorothy Rogers who was buried in 1627. I wonder if she was the mother of George? That might mean she was born before 1599!
It seems likely to me that George Rogers, the wheelwright who married Joanne Hinkley in 1639 was probably the brother of John (who was noted as a 'stranger'-) Diddy, you've done a lot of research, have you ever seen 'stranger.'before? What does it mean, someone from out of town?
Going back to George as the original first father of record, we know he had Elizabeth in 1640 and Margaret in 1646 but for the Rogers name to go on he would have had to have had a son or two. Piecing this together from what you found out and I found out, he could have had Richard born in 1634 (who had a Richard in 1672 and a Mary in 1663) and William (no birthdate) who had a John in 1666.
Moving ahead to the 1700's Elizabeth Rogers seems to have had a brother called James 1767, in line with her 1771-1775 actual birth record, but I find it very interesting is the notation of James Stevenson not Rogers recorded on that record. It makes me wonder if a female Rogers had married into the Stevenson Loughborough family in the same way as she would marry a Stevenson a generation later.
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the indexed records go back even further if you are interested, they start in 15??. the indexes are by surname and then a code c/m/b (christening/marriage/burial) followed by a page number. this relates to the actual volume of transcribed indexes. a lot of these were done years ago by my old indexing tutor from loughborough library school.
think a stranger is probably as you say - someone from outside the town. dont forget at this early period the town would have been quite small and most people would have known one another. as a market town l'boro would have had a weekly influx of 'newcomers' some of whom would have stayed. George had probably only been in the town a short while - met joanne and decided to stay put. bit romantic really ;D
Diddy
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I had no idea you could go back further than 1600! No rush on this, but if you are back in the library we'd be intrigued to see who the Rogers family were further back. Dorothy Rogers, who you found died in 1627, would have married into the Rogers family and changed her name but perhaps theirs a record of her husband or a record of her being the mother of George, William and Richard Rogers who would probably have been born in the 1630' 40's and seem to be the fathers of the later children who were being born in the 1660's, which after all was also plague time.
Looks as if the Roger Rogers you found, who married a Joanne is actually George Rogers, the wheelwright who married Joanne Hinkly in 1639 and then had a daughter, Elizabeth in the next year. I say that because Joanne is a fairly unusual name at that time.
John (the stranger) who might have been a Rogers cousin from out of town, married a woman called Jane and as you found out they had a daughter Margaret christened in 1646. Great to find all this out and yes, it is kind of romantic. Since he's not a Loughborough man and more difficult to trace concentrating on the other 3 would be really good.
Very exciting to think you can go back to the time of the first Queen Elizabeth! Thanks again!
Do you have a theory on why there is a James Stevenson listed as a relative for the birth of Elizabeth Rogers in teh 1770's? I looked for him on the IGI and couldn't find any sign of his birth in Loughborugh between 1730-1760. The only James Stevenson I found was in Market Harborough.
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my mistake in transcribing from my notes:
Elizabeth is d/o George & Joanne
there are quite a lot of records on IGI that have a 'relative' mentioned. wonder whether these were actually witnesses / god parents at the actual event. that would be possible if james Stevenson perhaps worked with Elizabeths father/friend of family and was her godfather.
works today - my dads father was my mums godfather as the 2 families were friends before my mum & dad were born. ahhhhh :-*
Diddy
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I have the same, my parents were what I think is called 'kissing cousins'. (Someone in my dad's greater family always married someone in my mom's greater family every generation going back in villages 5 miles apart in Bedfordshire.)
Thanks to the explanation of the frequency of the name listed as relative.... either as an uncle or as a godfather. May I ask do you see a James Stevenson in Loughborough between 1730- 1770. I don't see any!
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he might not have come from loughborough of course... maybe one of the villages. (just to make things awkward for us!!
Diddy
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Of course, you're right. The minute someone is from out of town, meaning Loughborough it gets so much more difficult. Remember how we went round and round at the beginning thinking that our set of Stevensons were the ones in Quordon?
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ah but we got our man in the end!!
Diddy 8)
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found the missing indexes - one bound volume and one not syaing it was an index!! now fully sorted from 1538.
missing Rogers for you.
1538 - 1587
bap: 13/3/1575 Dorothy Rogers d/o Saul
mar: 2/12/1574 Saul Rogers = Roose (Ruth?) Marshall
1651 - 1705
bap:
7/12/1653 Mary d/o William Rogers & of --- his wife
11/3/1654 Elizabeth d/o William, labourer
13/4/1654 Thomas s/o Thomas Rogers & Katherine his wife
28/8/1656 William s/o Thomas Rogers, a soldier & Katherine
19/9/1658 John s/o Thomas Rogers, a soldier
31/3/1659 Ann d/o Richard Rogers bur. 27/1/1677
8/7/1666 John s/o William Rogers, chapman
15/5/1670 Bridgit d/o Richard, chapman (this seems to be an
occupation - will try and check)
9/3/1672 Richard s/o Richard /Robert (queried in index)
marr:
21/1/1655 Luke Hutchinson = Alice Rogers
22/8/1665 Richard Abell = Margaret Rogers
13/11/1687 William Holmes = Mary Rogers
bur:
24/4/1654 Thomas s/o William,ostler & his wife
2/5/1667 William Rogers, chapman
19/12/1679 Widow Rogers
2/1/1694 jane w/o John Rogers
Diddy ;D
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Hi Diddy,
I wanted to say "thank you" for the information you found on the Stevenson and Rogers families. I appreciate all the effort you have gone to. My family will be impressed when I show them how far back your research has taken us.
Cheers...Prof
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not quite sure how it will tie in with more recent Rogers but interesting to see.
did wonder where Thomas was soldier. looking up we are back to the Anglo- Spanish War 1655 -1660!! :o
also found this about Chapman as an occupation;
Chapman / Copeman / Ceapman 1) 13c - 16c Itinerate Trader/Peddler. 2) Merchant - in the 17/18c, before the advent of factories, a Chapman would invest in the raw materials of the cotton, woolen or silk trade, put out the work to spinners and weavers at home on piece-rates, and sell the product for profit - the term later became used for an itinerant peddler of goods in the 19c
makes sense as l'boro= hosiery
Diddy
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Wow! This is fascinating information on the early Rogers family in Loughborough. You did it again!
I can see how chapman or chapmen played a role with weavers and in the early hosiery industry in the county but the mention of the soldier is also very interesting. I also went on line and it seems to me that if he was fathering children in the mid 1650's in the town perhaps most of the fighting was behind him. That was the post Civil War period of the Commonwealth where Cromwell was trying to subdue the Scots. Our Rogers man might have been a Cromwellian soldier during the last part of the English Civil War and might have fought at the Battle of Worcester and even in Scotland. Charles the First was executed at the end of the 1640's and it took his son Charles up until 1660 to reclaim the throne with Cromwell dying in 1658.
I find it amazing you found the parents of the Dorothy Rogers who died in 1627, born a year after Saul Rogers and Ruth Marshall married in 1574. This means the couple survived the plague year of 1563 during Elizabeth 1 reign. Dorothy would have been 13 to see the beacons lit in the county to warn of the Spanish Armada in 1588. In all likehood Saul and Ruth were born around 1550 when Henry the Eighth had been succeeded by daughter Mary!
It all makes them come to life being able to match solid records with events in history!. Many thanks again, Diddy.
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just found this on A*
Text:
Thomas Rogers, of St. Ives, Cambs., & Catherine Burrowes, of Loughborrow 12 Jan 1651
Book:
Calendar of Wills Proved and of Administrations Granted in the Commissary Court of the Peculiar and Exempt Jurisdiction of Groby, 1580-1800. (Will)
Collection: Leicestershire: - Register of Marriages, 1560-1837
date & names wold fit our soldier Thomas!! sons we have from 1654
THomas may have come to L'boro with the army & met catherine.
Diddy
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FindMyPast has them married prestwold - just over the River Soar from L'boro
Diddy
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Thanks for thinking outside the box! Since we weren't able to find much trace of Rogers in Loughborough in church records for the 1700's could they be in Prestwold? By the way, I figured out how to look at wills on A (don't ask me to do that again on the first try!) and along with Thomas and Catherine that you found, I came across a Richard Rogers of Loughborough marrying an Elizabeth Moore in 1659 it says he was a 'cutler.' A few days ago I found a record of the same marriage and it said it took place in Walton in the Wolds. We found a Richard, son of Richard born in Loughborough in 1672 so that could be his son. Assuming he married he would probably have had children around 1690-1705.
Question: why do you think we can't find Rogers during the 1700's in Loughborough when there were several families who were having sons and were all there in the 1670's in the town? Is the record/ index missing and causing a problem? Just want to make sure that's the case from what you said in an earlier post.
Last, it still seems really odd to me that we have Elizabeth Rogers, who walked with her children and husband to Devon (born early 1770's)with a 'relative' who is a James Stevenson who registers her birth in L in the 1770's, yet no record of her father... then she marries a Stevenson in 1799, or is it just a small world like we thought, Stevensons marrying into to family early and is godfather? The only sign of a Rogers who might have been Elizabeth's brother is a James Rogers born Loughborough in 1767who married Mary Thompson in 1792. Perhaps named for Jams S? Backtracking Elizabeth's father and mother were most likely born around 1745- 1750.
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the bound volume with index i found was 1705 - 1748 - don't think i gave you these:
bur: 8/12/1721 Bridgit Rogers
26/5/1708 Rd Rogers (Richard?)
guess the family Rogers could have been just outside L'boro. we are surrounded by villages on all sides and these all have their own PRs - some i have access to - others are in other local libraries and of course all in the Leics record office
this is the list i go by:
http://www.leics.gov.uk/index/leisure_tourism/libraries/library_services/local_studies/family_history/census/parish_registers_library.htm#loughborough
Diddy
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The only James Stevenson I found and there's hardly any, was a death of a James Stevenson in Ashby Folville in 1792.
I will need to look back over my notes but I think I found more than one Rogers in that village too because I remember looking it up last week to see where it is.
If it's the same James, we know he registered the birth of Elizabeth Rogers and stated he was a relative but it seems to me that he did that in Loughborough because you were looking in the Loughborough records indexes etc.
I looked on the map and Ashby Folville is east of Loughborough between Melton and Leicester.
Thanks again... V
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can check walton but going away for weekend and evenings full of flutes ready for exams mid march!!
first day back at work yesterday (wed) - absolutly shattered, then again today + 4 flute lessons & male voice choir (training them). Skegness for meeting tomorrow then Meccano exhibition over weekend in Lincoln!!
will need another 8 months off soon ???
Diddy
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You are really busy busy but what a lovely sound those flutes and choirs must make.
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walton marriage:
Marriage was solomized between Richard Rogers of the parish of Loughborough, _? (think says cutler? this would be space for occupation) and Elizabeth Moore of the same parish, Spinster. 1659
strangely no date but the vicar seems to have written his records after the event as there are a couple of september marriages before and then a July baptism after. so prob marriage after september.
i did check through the baptisms 1630 - 1643 but couldn't see Richard - alll beautiful Latin (which i did 2 years of in middle school - Amo, Amas, Amant....) ;D
i took a photo of record which i am sending by email viv - can't attach on lookups board.
Diddy
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Amazing to see the actual marriage record written by someone in 1659. Rogers and Stevensons go back in Ashby Folville so I'll look and see if a Richard was born there.
Many thanks again!!
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No Rogers in Ashby Folville but Blaby seems to the very close or within that small local area. Rogers go back to the 1500's there with a George Rogers having a large family, including son George 1600, John 1605, Ruth 1611, Dorcas 1616 etc. Those 2 villages are where the only James Stevenson I could find (godfather of Elizabeth Rogers in Loughborough in 1770's) comes from because there's a record of his death.
Early Rogers in Prestwold (as you say just across the village from Loughborough) beginning in the 1500's including another Elizabeth Rogers who married a Richard Roe in 1574. Other Prestwold Rogers continue on. You found the soldier, Thomas who married there from St Ives, who was a Rogers so maybe he was a cousin of theirs, visited and married a village girl. Since there was also that John Rogers "the stranger" who married a Jane in Loughborough about 10 years earlier perhaps he too was from St Ives and was Thomas' older brother.
Thanks again for your input.
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Hello, I have recently been looking at wills at Nottm records office. Thomas Stevenson farmer, died in Beeston Nott'm 1801 aged 61. In his will he mentions 3 siblings. Brother Wm Stevenson farmer of Quarndon Leics ( mentions Wms 2 sons: John eldest and Wm who inherits the Beeston farm) brother Joseph Stevenson of Bradmore Notts and sister Elizabeth - wife of John Marriott of Bradmore Notts and 2 of their children John and Mary.
I am descended from Wm Stevenson farmer of Beeston and had been unable to track his birthplace. I now believe he is the Wm son of Wm Stevenson mentioned in the will. I was intending to visit Wigston soon to track back on them, so any information would be brilliant.
regards Ruth
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On advice, re-posting here:
Hello I am Andrew Stevenson, currently living in Australia. I have some unverified family information that seems related to the previous thread on Stevenson in Loughborough.
I have:
Thomas Stevenson and Ann Taylor,
Son = William Stevenson (there seem to be rather too many William Stevenson's in L'boro)
William Stevenson and Elizabeth Roberts (d/o Thomas Roberts and Hannah Tutin)
son George Stevenson
dau Elizabeth Stevenson ~1830 Loughborough,
dau Anne Stevenson 1833 L'boro,
George Stevenson and Elizabeth??
son William Henry Stevenson Confirmed as born 1871 Ucksfield Register
Other children, were Charles, Annie, Louie, May.
So I don't know how accurate any of that is except for William Henry Stevenson. I can't find from any of the online sources who the parents were and I was wondering whether anyone could assist me?
It would be pretty interesting if these Stevenson's were related to those in the other thread.
Thank you,
Andrew
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Hi Andrew, I can certainly check the L'boro PRs for you on Monday.
Viv & I haven't been in touch for a while but I know she will see this thread
Diddy
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Hi Andrew, I can certainly check the L'boro PRs for you on Monday.
Viv & I haven't been in touch for a while but I know she will see this thread
Diddy
Thank you Diddy. I believe that the link through to Anne Stevenson is quite strong. She married into the Rackham family. We have some signed books with Arthur Rackham's illustrations in them. But still, you can't be sure.
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HI Andrew, not a lot of luck. nothing in Leics IGI.except:
baptism
George Arthur Stevenson 6/9/1838 Leicester St Martins s/o William & Elizabeth Roberts
freebmd = Dec 1838 Leicester 15/111
Diddy
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Thanks Diddy. Do you have any suggestions on how I might progress further or is this as far as I can go?
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Georges bap cert would give an address - see if they are living in Leicester itself or one of the villages - PRs not available in Loughborough.
Also fathers occupation might help.
St. Martins is now Leicester Cathedral where Richard 111 just buried.
Do you have any census going back George = Elizabeth / william = Elizabeth
Diddy
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Do you have any census going back George = Elizabeth / william = Elizabeth
So thanks again for all your effort on my behalf Diddy, just amazing that you would help me so, a complete stranger.
I don't have much information I am afraid. The baptism certificate; is that something I should/could request from somewhere? I would absolutely love to know where they lived, more than probably any information. I travel to London with work often and that would give me a chance to come to where they lived, perhaps do some research on my own.
Also I am not quite sure I understand what you mean quoted above?
Andrew
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census - you have William henry bap 1871 so parents George & Elizabeth maybe with children will be on census cert 1871 but going back 1861/51/41. 1851 onwards will have their ages / place of birth.
also William & Elizabeth 1841 -on
would help enormously to have some idea of dates of birth/place of birth /where living
off out now but will look later - have sub to Ancestry.
certificates after sept 1837 can be sent for, think are now £9 -10 from:
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp
you won't need to send for any Loughborough area ones as I can see at library but the Leicester one I gave you the GRO reference.
RC is all about helping others esp in the area we live. local knowledge is everything. My ancestors came from Tyneside / Scotland - all too far away, so other folk have helped me.
Diddy
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Hi Andrew, I have had a bit of a look at the census. questions:
* do you know for certain that William henry 1870 is the son of George & Elizabeth because the only one showing on the 1871 census born 1870 Romford is the son of David & Susannah
* Where did the other children's names come from as the only Louis born I can find within reasonable dates is with William Henry & the places/ref don't match so not twins:
Births Mar 1870
STEVENSON Charles Arthur A W. Ham 4a 53
STEVENSON Louis John W. Ham 4a 66
STEVENSON William Henry Romford 4a 136
* Where did the other family's info come from ie childrens names for William & Elizabeth
the only way to do this is to work backwards so we need to start with William Henry who is the only date we have. what is your relationship to him? is he a confirmed member of your tree?
this is not meant as criticism - I am happy to help but think we need to do this logically.
Diddy ;)
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Hello Diddy,
Thanks again.
So William Henry is definitely related. He was born in 1871 so might not be in the 1871 census. I have a shot of the 1911 census where he lists his birthplace as South Hackney.
I am afraid all the other names were supplied by a relative who cannot be contacted, hence they are unconfirmed. I think that you are right, the first step is to establish the parents of William Henry, this is a good idea. I am his great, grandson.
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wait: you said originally
son William Henry Stevenson Confirmed as born 1871 Ucksfield Register
so I thought Uckfield was Essex hence the only one I could find:
Dec 1870 Romford
Now you are saying he was born London (Hackney) so he could be this one:
Births Mar 1872 STEVENSON William Henry Hackney 1b/ 525
please confirm before we go forward (or backwards actually!!)
Diddy
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1891 Hackney:
George A Stevenson 49 b. Leicester commercial traveller
Elizabeth Stevenson 52 b. London
Louisa E Stevenson 22 b Hackney
Annie M Stevenson 10 (see below) "
William H Stevenson 19 "
Charles S Stevenson 10 "
Emeline M Stevenson 8 "
these would fit names you gave Emeline M (May?)
1901 Hackey:
Elizabeth Stevenson 56 wid
Laura E Stevenson 32 (Louisa in 1891)
William H Stevenson 29
Charles S Stevenson 20
Emily M Stevenson 18
freebmd:
dec 1868 Stevenson Louisa Elizabeth Bethnal Green 1c/ 252
dec 1870 Stevenson Annie Mary Hackney 1b 467 (age mistranscribed on 1891)
sept 1880 Stevenson Charles Samuel Hackney 1b/ 626
june 1883 Stevenson Emily May Hackney 1b 590
Diddy
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1881 Hackney
George A. Stevenson 38 warehouseman
Elizabeth Stevenson 36
Louisa E. Stevenson 12
Annie M. Stevenson 10
William R. Stevenson 9
Charles R. Stevenson
Isabella Tomkins 48 lodger
some mistranscribing again! also has George as b, Notts but def same family
Diddy
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only marriage of a George Arthur:
Marriages Dec 1867
STEVENSON George Arthur Brighton 2b/ 365 = Elizabeth Sharp
1871:Hackney
George A Stephenson 29
Elizabeth Stephenson 26
Louisa C Stephenson 2
Annie M Stephenson 6 Months
Jane Smith 16
1861:Nottingham
William Stevenson 58 b.1803 Costock
Elizabeth Stevenson 55 b.1806 Nottingham
William H Stevenson 30 b.1831 Loughborough
Annie Stevenson 27 b.1834 "
George D Stevenson 19 def George A in census
Margaret Stevenson 16 b.1845 nottingham
Agnes Stevenson 14 b.1847 "
Ann Marston 24
Emily Stevenson 20 b.1841 Leicester
Definitely the right ones now........
Diddy ;D
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Hello Diddy,
Well, that is amazing. Truly.
Firstly that William Henry put his birth place as South Hackney when it was in fact Loughborough on the 1911 Census. I kind of get that if he was living there when he was 10.
One thing that is odd though is if you read all the Rackham threads/information Annie Stevenson is Anne Stevenson. Small point I know.
Secondly, this family, what were they thinking? They had very limited imagination in naming their children differently from themselves!!!
Diddy thanks again. Is it possible to get information on where (address) they lived. Probably I would like to see that - in the physical sense. I guess you understand.
Thanks so much,
Andrew
PS: my older relatives are suddenly interested in this too.
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HI, You were the one who told me the 1911 had Hackney as his birthplace...
I can find some more & send the exact addresses but busy away this weekend so will give you some time to assimilate that lot.
Still not sure about the Brighton marriage - looks from census as if it should be Nottingham. will have another browse.
I can check the Notts igi at the library.
not seen the Rackham stuff.
Diddy
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Diddy,
Thank you very much. Your data is spot on. I have downloaded copies of the census pages back to 1841 and confirmed the link between George Arthur Stevenson and Annie Rackham (ne Stevenson). Thus I have all the addresses and occupations. Just amazing.
So now I wonder how should I go back further in the tree from Willliam 1803 Costock?
Secondly, are there any other sources of data/information that would provide a richer insight into the lives of those we have already found?
I have found uploaded copies of parish records and that I guess is where you would need to look.
Thank you again for your help and guidance.
Andrew
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Marriage:
Name William Stevenson
Marriage date 12 Oct 1827
Marriage place Nottingham
Church St Mary
Denomination Anglican
Spouse's Elizabeth Roberts
County Nottinghamshire
Record set Nottinghamshire marriages, 1528-1929
Diddy
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Possible baptism?
name William Turner Stevenson
Baptism date 19 Jul 1802
Church St Mary & All Saints
Baptism place Willoughby On The Wolds very close to Costock
Father -
Mother Ann Stevenson
County Nottinghamshire
Notes Base born
Record set Nottinghamshire baptisms
ever known the Name Turner in the family? obviously from surname possibly fathers
Diddy
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Hello Diddy,
Re; Turner, no, no mention of the name in the family. But that doesn't necessarily mean anything.
There seems to be a service in East Leake etc looking up parish records is that worthwhile?
Thanks again
Andrew
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I would put a new post on the Notts board = "Stevenson family of costock area" first & see what turns up. They may be an alternative bap to the one I found. I can also check Notts IGI in library.
I did find:
Marr:
Willliam Stevenson = Elizabeth Brecks 4/1/1792 East Leake
which may be related.
Diddy
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Thank you Diddy, I will do as you suggest, thank you very much for your support.
Andrew