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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Merionethshire => Wales => Merionethshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Bev Tilley on Saturday 30 April 05 11:01 BST (UK)

Title: GWYDDELWERN 1841
Post by: Bev Tilley on Saturday 30 April 05 11:01 BST (UK)
Hi
could anyone do a look up for me in the 1841 Gwyddelwern, Merionrthshire census please.

I have Jane Williams born 1832-33 in Gwyddelwern.
I know her father was EVAN WILLIAMS but I have no other information about him.
Any help with this would be most gratefully recieved
Thanks
Bev
Title: Re: GWYDDELWERN 1841
Post by: Dolgellau on Sunday 01 May 05 19:11 BST (UK)
I don't have access to the 1841 census for Gwyddelwern, but the 1851 census is on line at

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/MER/Gwyddelwern/1851.htm

lf you can't find her there (she would have been old enough to go into service or get married by 1851) you could try e-mailing the people who wrote the transcription  John & Doreen Jones as I believe that they have transcribed many more census returns for this area than they have yet been able to publish on the internet .
Title: Re: GWYDDELWERN 1841
Post by: Bev Tilley on Sunday 01 May 05 19:17 BST (UK)
Hello
thanks for that, I am actually looking for Janes father Evan Williams. I have Jane (as you say) as a servant in 1851 then as a married women in Gwyddelwern from 1861 onwards.  Her marriage cert. says father, EVAN WILLIAMS labourer. That was in 1853 and as it doesn't say deceased, I'm assuming he was still living at the time.
There is no one matching him in 1851 census so I thought he might show up on the '41.

Do you have an email address for the people you mention at all?
Thanks again, Bev
Title: Re: GWYDDELWERN 1841
Post by: tanwenhaf on Friday 22 July 05 11:42 BST (UK)
Does the marriage certificate give Evan Williams' occupation or Janes address at time of Marriage?

I have several Evan Williams in my tree (common family name) born in Llandderfel and Gwyddelwern. Unfortunatley none are old enough to father your Jane but let me know if you do find him as our families may tie in further back.

Thanks
Tan
Title: Re: GWYDDELWERN 1841
Post by: Bev Tilley on Monday 25 July 05 17:44 BST (UK)
Hi Tan
I have managed to locate my Evan Williams.  He was in Corwen in 1841 with his family.  in '41 the family were living in Tafam Y Pric, Corwen and the census gives his age as 40 and his wife Ann as 35 but we know how the '41 rounded ages up.  The 1851 gives their ages as 48 and 49.  Their daughter Jane married in 1853 in Gwyddelwern and Evans occ. was Ag Labourer.  I don't have the certificate but I've seen the entry at Dolgellau R O but it didn't give an address.  In 1851 the family lived at Ty Gwyn, Corwen.  Jane had siblings Owen, Gwen, Mary and William.
I hope some of this ties in with yours, that would be wonderful
Bev
Title: Re: GWYDDELWERN 1841
Post by: tanwenhaf on Tuesday 26 July 05 09:04 BST (UK)
That puts Evan Williams' birth at about 1792.
My Williams' go back to Edward Williams' birth in 1791.
All my Williams family were farmers and Ag. Labourers.
Hopefully I will get to visit the records office soon and get to rifle through through the parish records to find out who his parents were. I will keep an eye out for Evan, you never know, a long shot but it is possible they may be brothers.
Tan
Title: Re: GWYDDELWERN 1841
Post by: Bev Tilley on Sunday 31 July 05 20:06 BST (UK)
Fingers crossed then!!
Bev
Title: Re: GWYDDELWERN 1841
Post by: iolanthe on Sunday 07 May 06 22:50 BST (UK)
Hi Tan

You mentioned on a previous message about Edward Williams, born in 1791.  Is that Edward connected with Cist (or Gist) Faen, by any chance?  I now have reason to believe that the Edward Williams (then aged 60) of Cist Faen on the 1851 census may be related to me.  My G G Grandfather was Ellis Williams of Maesod in 1851 and it has been suggested that Ellis might be Edward's son.

Iolanthe
Title: Re: GWYDDELWERN 1841
Post by: tanwenhaf on Monday 08 May 06 09:09 BST (UK)
I don't have Ellis down on my tree but it is possible.

Can you give me any more details?

Thanks,
Tan.
Title: Re: GWYDDELWERN 1841
Post by: iolanthe on Monday 08 May 06 14:35 BST (UK)
Thanks, Tan, for taking the trouble to reply.

Doreen and John Jones from Canada, who have transcribed all the local censuses on Genuki, left a message for someone else researching Williams in Llandderfel in 1851 on the RootsWeb site suggesting that there might be a family connection because of the names.  Whether this is actually true, I can't yet prove, as I need to find baptisms from Llandderfel to check Ellis' parentage.  I haven't found many other Williams in the immediate area.

Edward  and Margaret Williams of Gist Faen are the correct age (60) to be possible parents of Ellis and, as you will see, the family first names, leading to Doreen Jones' suggestion, are the same  The other pointer I have is that, in 1851, there is a Jane Hughes aged 7 with them at Gist Faen, and Hughes comes into my family as well, although there is always the proviso that many names are very common.

In 1851, Ellis Williams (b 1812) was living at Maesod, quite close to Gist Faen, with his wife, Catherine (b 1806  -  nee Edwards) and their family.

At home were Margaret (b 1836), Elizabeth (b 1840), and Reese Edward (aged 10 days).  Two younger children were "farmed out" to relatives  -  Hugh (b 1842) with his uncle Morgan Edwards at Henblas, and Catherine (my G Grandmother (b 1847) with her grandparent, Rees and Anne Edwards at  Llanerch, presumably because of the new baby in the house.  Another daughter, Ann (b 1838), was at Garth Goch as a house servant with her aunt Gwen Grestie (nee Edwards) and husband John.

I'm very keen to find definite Williams parents and siblings linked with Ellis (my G G Grandfather), so it would be fantastic if I could get back further.  I've come to one of those proverbial brick walls.......

Iolanthe
Title: Re: GWYDDELWERN 1841
Post by: Bev Tilley on Thursday 08 June 06 17:14 BST (UK)
Hi Tan
it's been a while since we spoke about the William's but I've found now that my EVAN WILLIAMS was born at LLANDRILLO, MERIONETHSHIRE C1801-3.  So it looks unlikely that we have a connection after all with this family.
Best wishes
Bev
Title: Re: GWYDDELWERN 1841
Post by: tanwenhaf on Friday 03 November 06 10:58 GMT (UK)
Iolanthe,

As I now live in Aberystwyth I've started visiting the National Library, I'm off again tomorrow and if possible will look up our Williamses.
I'll let you know how I get on, also below are other reasons which make it even more likely it's the same family.

I found your Ellis on the 1841 census:
Ty'n Llechwedd, llandderfel
Ellis Williams age 30 Farmer
Catherine 30
Margaret  5
Anne  3
Elizabeth  1
Hugh  10
William  15


Also in 1851 at the same address
William Williams age 44  Labourer on the Highway born in Llangwm (which is where my Edward Williams was born in 1791!!)
Gwen 44 born Llanfor
Margaret  7  Scholar  born Llandderfel
Gwen  5  born Llandderfel

Wish me luck!
Tan
Title: Re: GWYDDELWERN 1841
Post by: iolanthe on Friday 03 November 06 13:26 GMT (UK)
Hi Tan

You've found the right reference to Ellis Williams in 1841 at Ty'nllechwedd which matches with my information, and the family had moved by 1851 to Maesod, somewhere nearby in Llandderfel.  It's interesting that there is the other Williams living at Ty'nllechwedd in 1851, which I didn't know.  I have all my Merionethshire information on a spreadsheet for each census as far as I have found and I'd be happy to send it to you directly off line, if I have your e mail address.  I have colour co-ordinated where the various families interrelate.  I've only just started working on the family tree again after several months of frustration with the proverbial brick walls.

Iolanthe