RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: TonyD on Tuesday 28 June 11 16:13 BST (UK)
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Hello,
I have a number of references to an ancestor, John, as a 'Carryer'.
Several of his children's birth/baptism records, specifically between 1702 and 1705, show this as his occupation.
Was he the equivalent of a man with a van?
Or does the term in the early 1700s have particular meaning?
We do know that John's grandson had quite a large transport business moving goods between Lincoln and London and other places.
Thankyou.
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Yup sounds like he was the 1700's equivalent of "a man with a van" or more likely "man with a horse and cart". :P
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PS meant to add I love the seal in your avatar! :)
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Thanks Fifer.
Am hoping for perhaps some detailed info from someone knowledgeable about trades and occupations at that time.
I have some better images of the seal at http://www.drewry.net/TreeMill/indiI542.html.
I note your interests include Perthshire and Stewart. A very difficult area to investigate!
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I had relatives who were carriers around 1900. After he was orphaned my father was brought up by his aunt and uncle who were the village carriers, performed parcel and general carrying duties usually with a horse and trap. Other duties included pig killing at Christmas. In the late 16th century I found my earliest ancestor was described as a currier. For some time I thought this was the same as a carrier, then I found a currier was involved in the tanning industry. As there was no standard spelling for almost another century after the date mentioned is it possible your ancestors were curriers and not carryers?
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I note your interests include Perthshire and Stewart. A very difficult area to investigate!
Not too difficult, my lot lived in Norrieston/Thornhill for 130 years and possibly even longer! ;D
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Thanks Redroger.
Sort of what I am guessing at. Have come across 'carrier' in respect of mail when googling.
Definitely 'Carryer' in 3 baptism records. And his grandson had what appears to be big business between Lincoln and London - with his great grandson eventually rising to Commissary-General. So there is family interest in transport of goods possibly starting with John - perhaps even earlier. John's son and grandson both became Mayors of Lincoln, so at a guess John had some standing in the local community.
The early 1700s must have been 'exciting' time to be in transport business - one would guess difficult and dangerous.
Other relatives, in another separate branch are agricultural and coincidentally recorded in the censuses as 'carter's. I can see that as a farming trade.
However the precise description of John as a 'Carryer' suggests a bit more than a man with a cart.
Trying to guess at its significance 300 years on is probably fruitless.
My message here is in hope of discovering someone with in-depth knowledge of that time, or perhaps who has come across a description of 'carryer' as a trade in the early eighteenth century.
In my imagination a 'carryer' could be transporting goods, people, and/or mail - probably all three. To do so would require horses and all their requirements, staging posts, associates and partners.
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Some descriptions have a carrier as someone who carried letters between personages involved in intrigue ie a spy. ;)
But the more accepted explanation (though perhaps less "romantic") from http://rmhh.co.uk/occup/c.html is:
Carman/Charman/Carrier/Carter/Cartman
Driver of (horse-drawn) vehicles for transporting goods. Carmen were often employed by railway companies for local deliveries and collections of goods and parcels. Modern day van driver. A Carter typically drove a light two wheeled carriage. Also sometimes someone who drove horse-drawn trams was called a Carman.
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You might get some background about rural communication in 18th century Lincolnshire from:Agricultural Revolution in Lincolnshire by T.W.Beastall (History of Lincolnshire Vol8) History of Lincolnshire Committee 1978 ISBN 0 902668 07 2
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One of my ancestors was a carrier from 1718 onwards. He was the carrier for the lords of Dunkenhalgh Hall, in this case Lady Catherine Petre. He was granted a messuage and had a house, originally grand, but had seen better days. The previous tenant was given an annuity to leave the messuage for Abraham. All of which sounds as though a carrier in a grand house was quite important. He started off in the kitchen at the hall, then did labouring jobs, before becoming the carrier, so they must have decided he was a responsible person. I tried to work out which days he went to Preston as they had two market days, but I couldn't find any pattern to the payments. One of his side jobs was delivering annuity payments to Lady Catherine's retired elderly female servants. Abraham bought all sorts of strange things, soft soap for when her ladyship came in the summer, mousetraps for the nursery for Lady Catherine's son, scythes and sharpening stones for cutting the grass on the bowling green and regular orders of groats for the poor, food for the family etc. He took china, documents and other things to Preston for transport by stagecoach to Lady Catherine in Cheam or Ingatestone. Everything Abraham did was documented by the steward in the accounts which the Petre family deposited at Lancashire Record Office. I am grateful to them, claytonbradley
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Thank you Clayton Bradley.
Paints a very interesting picture. It strikes me that being a 'carrier' in that era meant that one had a wider view and experience of the world than most people.
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A carrier was a highly responsible job requiring a high degree of honesty, and potentially extremely dangerous in view of the less settled state of the country in the 18th century.
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Thank you RedRoger.
Your statement appears to have some underlying authority. Any chance you can expand a little?
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Sure,hope this helps, the provision of any kind of service transporting articles for another person involves the carriers to have a high degree of personal integrity and honesty if it is to be successful.Traditionally postal service have been provided by the state, in Britain from at least 1660 with the General Letter Office formed in the reign of Charles II. Carrying of articles became more regulated in the 19th century with the coming of the railways, and the extension of parcels services to the Post Office. More personal local transport of goods would be done by the local carrier.
Prior to the mid 19th century the country was much less settled and police services were to say the least rudimentary, social deprivation after the extensive wars of the 18th and early 19th centuries led to a very high incidence of criminal activity not least highway robbery.
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Thank you again, Redroger.