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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: MontanaQR on Monday 27 June 11 20:05 BST (UK)
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Looking for information on where my great grandfather Michael Duggan (1867) was born in Ireland? His Father Thomas (1841) & Mother (1846). He married Catherine Collins (born 1870) and they had 4 children Mary, Margaret, Josephine & John. Moved from Ireland around 1893 to New York after spending some time in Sheffield, England (1871). So far on the census, ship records & naturalation, I get only Ireland & Irish Free State. :)
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You could try searching the BMD Index for possible matches, but Duggan is a relatively common surname in Ireland so you would probably need a few more clues to locate the correct family.
Do you know the maiden surname for his mother, or names and years of birth for any siblings ?
Where did Michael & Catherine marry ?
see :
Introduction to Irish Records (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,442233.0.html)
My Ancestor came from Ireland - where do I start? (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,498742.0.html)
Shane
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Is this your Duggan family on the 1871 English census in Sheffield ?
Thomas Duggan 30 Occupation : engine fitter
Mary Duggan 25
Michael Duggan 4
Kate Duggan 2
Thomas Duggan 9 Months
Jno M Duggan 6 (Nephew)
Son Michael appears to be born in Sheffield, all the rest of the family born in Ireland.
Ref : RG10 / Piece 4695 / Folio 64 / Page 26
Shane
English census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Yes, that's them. I'm trying to find where Thomas & Mary Duggan are from in Ireland. I don't have her surname and as you can see there children were Kate (1869), Thomas (1870), Michael and Jno/nephew (haven't figured that one out yet). ;D We are heading to Ireland at the end of July. I have ordered Michael's death certificate in hopes it may have where his father was born in Ireland. Thank you..... :)
I guess that since Michael was born in England (while his Father worked there for awhile) I will have to rely on Thomas & Mary, although I believe they all came back to Ireland from England where Michael met Catherine Collins and married.
So far on the census, ship records & naturalation, I get only Ireland & Irish Free State.
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Full civil registration started in Ireland in 1864 (in England in mid-1837), so it might be better to try following up on the children first. Michael might be the best to start with since at least you have possible place of birth for him - i.e. Sheffield.
If you can find his birth it would give you Mary's maiden name, which might help locate the marriage of Thomas and Mary in Ireland - which in turn would give you the place of residence at the time, father's names etc
Shane
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Will try that....Thanks ;D
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It may be that Thomas was born in Tipperary in 1841 & Mary (?) in Roscommon in 1846 ???
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It may be that Thomas was born in Tipperary in 1841 & Mary (?) in Roscommon in 1846 ?
Counties Tipperary and Roscommon are not close, so if this is correct it could mean the marriage was at an intermediate location...
To start a search for either Thomas or Mary's baptism you would need more specific details - such as location (i.e. parish), and a father's name. That's why a marriage cert could help - but without knowing Mary's maiden name a search for that is not practical, since there would be no way to know if any Thomas Duggan marriages located were the correct one
Did Thomas and Mary have any other children born in England after Thomas ?
p.s. have you found the family on the English 1881 census ?
Shane
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is this your Duggan/Dugan family in 1881 - again in Sheffield ?
Thomas Dugan 41, Engine fitter, born Co. Tipperary
Mary Dugan 36, born Co. Roscommon
Michael Dugan 15, Engine turner[?]
Thomas Dugan 10
John W. Dugan 9
James Dugan 5
Obadiah J. Dugan 3
Robert P. Dugan 6 Mon
Ref : RG11 / Piece 4661 / Folio 107 / Page: 30
All the children are listed as being born in Sheffield. You would think a birth registration for rare name like Obadiah would be easy to spot - but I dont see anything close on FreeBMD (http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl)
The 1871 census is a little unclear with regard to places of birth - most of the details are ditto'd, but the entry beside Michael is crossed out and replaced with Sheffield. Could that have meant place of birth Ireland for Thomas and Mary and Sheffield for all the children ? That would fit with the 1881 census...
If that's correct then maybe the marriage of Thomas and Mary took place in England .... which might make more sense since they had origins in different parts of Ireland.
Shane
English Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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a possible birth for one of the children from FreeBMD - under Doogan :
Quarter/Year : Dec/1880
Name : Robert Patrick Doogan
Registration District : Sheffield
Volume : 9c
Page : 495
Shane
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a possible match for Michael's birth under a similar variation in spelling :
Quarter/Year : Dec / 1866
Name : Michael Dougan
Registration District : Sheffield
Volume : 9c
Page : 441
Are you certain the family listed on the 1871 census are your Duggan family ?
Based on the English census returns, and now this possible birth, it seems to me that this Michael was born in England not Ireland...
How were you able to connect your Michael with this family in Sheffield - did the entire Duggan family emigrate together ?
Shane
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I actually think the last 2 searches were a bit of a stretch for us. First they would have had to drop 1 (G) and the ages are a little off, plus some of the names we have not heard off. We probably saw it because of Sheffield again and the ages were somewhat close......moving past that one.
Still funny how for Michael on the census, it's wrote Ireland and then scratched out, yet documents going into 1920 for Michael he has birth as Ireland or Irish free state. And his Petition for U.S. Naturalization 1900, he wrote Formal Nationality as "Queen United Kingdom of Great Britain & Ireland". It looks as though from the 1900 census he has he was born in Ireland and immigrated from Queenstown (port) to the U.S. in 1893. And Catherine came in 1895 (when they married) in NY.
Sheffield and most of the kids being born there could still be a possibility though. Still trying to find out Mary's last name and where they may have come from. From the 1920 U.S. census it looks as though Catherine had died before then.........Still working at it. Mary Duggan married Dave Stryker in N.Y. after 1920. If I could nail down her time of death, we might be able to see where she born? Thanks for all your help...... ;D
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The free state (Saorstát Éireann in Irish) was formed in 1922, so technically he would be correct to say he was born in the UK as all of Ireland was part of it before then. The free state later (1949) became the Republic of Ireland.
Your best bet is to follow up on certs and other records for any of the Duggan family you can in the US.
Did Michael travel to the US on his own or did the all the Duggan family go together ?
Shane
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I actually think the last 2 searches were a bit of a stretch for us. First they would have had to drop 1 (G) and the ages are a little off, plus some of the names we have not heard off. We probably saw it because of Sheffield again and the ages were somewhat close......moving past that one.
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I may be misinterpreting your point here - but I'm pretty sure those two census returns relate to the same family - ages are very close, the minor change in spelling is not significant - plus the occupation for the father is the same
Shane
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The 1871 census is dead on, I can't deny that, all the records support that. The other ones (1881) are close but not exact and there is no Kate and the addition of the other children who never show up again. I believe that Jno Duggan (nephew) never made the trip, from the census....... she lost 1 child. I believe the occupation he had there as a Engine fitter was quite common as was our name....Duggan/Dugan. I think the original census from 1871 is probably the right one, but 1881 seems a little bit of a stretch.
Thank you again, this is fun ;D
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Have been doing a bit of searching and found quite a bit of information which should sort out some of the confusion here.
Starting with the Sheffield family-
marriage: Jan./Mar.1866 (9c 558 Sheffield) Thomas Dougan- a Mary McDonald on same page.
birth: Oct./Dec.1866 (9c 441 Sheffield) Michael Dougan
Michael Dugan born 1 Nov.1866 Sheffield, father Thomas mother Mary McDonald, spouse Gertrude, died 31 Jan.1941 B.C., Canada
Border Crossing- Nov.1913 Victoria BC: Michael Dugan, age 45, b.Sheffield
Border Crossing- 9 Aug.1930 Sumas, Washington State: Michael Dugan, 63, b.Sheffield, wife Gertrude, brother? Joseph?
All from LDS database.
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Now for your Michael Duggan. Note: there are at least 3 Michael Duggans with wife Catherine in Manhattan at the same time!
Michael Duggan married 26 June 1895 Manhattan to Catherine Collins (Italian Genealogy website NY marriages)
1900 Census- Manhattan
Michael Duggan, Mar.1867, Ireland, to US 1893, driver
wife Catherine Duggan, July 1870, Ireland, to US 1895, 3 ch./2 liv., m.5 yrs
dau. Mary Duggan, June 1899, NY
Note: think it should be 3 children/2 died
Naturalization- 19 April 1900. Michael Duggan, age 33, driver, British citizen, arried NY Oct.1893.
1910 Census- Manhattan
Michael Duggan, 42, Ireland, to US 1895, salesman-brewery
wife Catherine Duggan, 40, Ireland, m.14 yrs, 6 ch./4 liv., to US 1893
dau. Mary Duggan, 10; dau. Margaret Duggan, 8; dau. Josephine, 5; son John J., 3 (all b.NY).
1920 Census- Manhattan
Michael Duggan, 52, Ireland, wid., to US 1890 Na.1899, engineer R.R.
dau. Margaret, 19; dau.? Joseph?, 16; son John, 13 (all b.NY, parents both b.Ireland).
1930 Census- Manhattan (in household of David Stryker)
Michael Duggan, 52, Irish Free State, to US 1890 Na., engineer- office building. Also dau. Margaret age 29.
Note: since the 1930 census was taken after the Partition of Ireland this indicates Michael was born in one of the 26 counties in the present Republic of Ireland.
Mary A. Duggan married 21 Apr.1919 Manhattan to David P. Stryker (from Italian Genealogy website N.Y. marriage index)
ALL of these U.S. details match your family. There is NO mention of Sheffield (or anywhere else in England).
I looked for birth in IRELAND for Michael Duggan but not enough info to make a match even with month and year. Same problem with Catherine Collins.
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hi MontanaQR ,
To restart your search you need that death cert that you mentioned earlier - and it might also be worth chasing up a cert for that marriage that aghadowey located for Michael and Catherine. Hopefully one or both of these will give you vital clues such parents names and place of birth...
If you are lucky then the parents married after the start of full civil records in 1864 so possible marriage references might be found on the BMD Index.
If they married earlier than this you have to hope for a detailed location for the family to establish which parish they lived in, so you can check the availability of parish record for the area
Shane
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Thank you for all the information and work on this. I believe aghadowey is on the right track. Mary, Margaret and Josephine were all sisters of my grandfather, John. The David Stryker connection is also correct. We are attempting to contact David and Mary Stryker's grandson (left a message and waiting for a return call). Hoping he can also shed some light on the subject. Again thanks for your help.
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I have to admit that the Ellis Island records of Catherine Collins (Dublin) Jun. 24Th 1892 & Cath. Collins (Cork) Sept., 02 1866 is intriguing, although she should have been married at that point ??? But at least with this search we have places ;D
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I have to admit that the Ellis Island records of Catherine Collins (Dublin) Jun. 24Th 1892 & Cath. Collins (Cork) Sept., 02 1866 is intriguing, although she should have been married at that point ???
No, Catherine Collins would not have been married in 1892. I posted the marriage details earlier- Michael Duggan married 26 June 1895 Manhattan to Catherine Collins.
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I guess what I meant is that the "Cath. Collins" arrived in 1896 and was single. The other "Catherine Collins" arrived in 1892, age is right, but don't recognize the rest of the family and she was married already from Ellis Island records. I'm kind of at a stand still now, until I get Michael's death certificate.......Thank you for your time ;D
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Your Catherine Collins came to America (single) and married in N.Y. in 1895.
The one I found in 1892 record was also single and perhaps travelled with a brother (hard to say for sure since relationships aren't listed). The 1892 Dublin Mrs. Catherine Collins is not the one I found earlier.
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Michael Duggan married 26 June 1895 Manhattan to Catherine Collins (Italian Genealogy website NY marriages)
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It might be also worth chasing up the marriage record mentioned earlier, in case it includes any additional details ..
Shane
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I believe your great grandfather was born in Sheffield and that he was the brother of my grandfather Thomas. They were sons of Thomas Duggan (Tipperary) and Mary McDonnell (Roscommon).
I saw your thread somewhere else too and have replied there as well!
Hope to hear from you!
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I believe your great grandfather was born in Sheffield and that he was the brother of my grandfather Thomas. They were sons of Thomas Duggan (Tipperary) and Mary McDonnell (Roscommon).
I saw your thread somewhere else too and have replied there as well!
Hope to hear from you!
If you check replies #15 and #16 you'll see that the Sheffield family are not MontanaQR's ancestors.
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OK so. It was all very confused so it couldn't all add up. Thanks!