RootsChat.Com
Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Pembrokeshire => Topic started by: Dale on Saturday 25 June 11 04:40 BST (UK)
-
Kia Ora
Greetings from NZ
I think John Phillips married Mary Ann Rees Pembrokshire Sept Qtr 1840.
I think they began a family the same year the children being baptised in Angle.
I don't yet have the certs for any of these as I prefer to 'iron" out any problems before embarking on an expensive exercise!
I know the family of John Snr and Mary Ann Phillips emigrated to New Zealand on the "Gertrude" arriving 2 Feb 1868 leaving some adult children behind.
Can anyone help me with 1841, 1851,1861 censii please?
Emigrating in 1868 were;
John Snr age unknown
Mary Ann wife age unknown
James: c 1840
William: c. 1844
Lydia: c.1846
Elizabeth: 1850
Eliza Frances: 1857
Jane birth unknown
Annie birth unknown
Left behind may have been:
Mary, Alice and Martha PHILLIPS who maybe married and were reluctant to travel?
John Phillips Jnr. may have travelled earlier circa 1865.
If anyone has "lost" Phillips family members I have found spares DOWN UNDER!
Hoping someone may be able to help!
Dale
-
Hi Dale, this is 1851 Census:-
John Phillips 33 occ Ag Lab b Castlemartin Pembrokeshire.
Mary 33
James 10
John 9
William 7
Lydia 5
Mary 3
Elizabeth 7 months
Residing at Broom Hill, Angle, Pembrokeshire.
All other than shown b Angle
Census Ref HO107/2476/564/6
Keyboard86
-
In 1841 looks like they are with Mary's parents:-
John Phillips 20
Mary 25
James 9 months
David Rees 50
Elizabeth 55
Eliza 20
Lydia 15
Mary Bamkin 75
Martha Bamkin 75
Residing at Angle Village, Pembrokeshire.
Census Ref HO107/1443/ 1/5 / 5
Keyboard86
-
1861 Census
John Phillips 43 occ Farm Lab b Castlemartin
Mary Ann 43
John 18
Lydia 14
Elizth 10
Alice 8
Residing at Mellestone Farm, Mellestone Lane, Monkton, Pembrokeshire.
Census Ref RG09/4158/56/9
Keyboard86
-
WOW! Thank you that confirms my suspicions - I'll have to check the info carefully against what I know so far!
The 1861 may throw up the names of the other children as the Bankin name is familiar to me -used as a second forename here in NZ.
JOY! Thank you!
Dale
-
Whoops the 1861 arrrived while I was typing!
More checking obviously for possible deaths or nicknames etc.
Many thanks indeed - that sure has clarified some of what I was seeking.
Much appreciated!
Dale
-
I would suggest that your John Rees is one and the same that is baptised at Castlemartin in 1818, however at present it does not appear that his parents married there.
I would suggest that your Mary Ann Rees is one and the same that is baptised at Angle in 1818. IGI website backs this with 20 March 1818 to David & Elizabeth Rees, and Lydia baptised 18 Aug 1822.
Bam[p]kin is a surname also found at Angle, so the inference is that David Rees mrd Elizabeth Bampkin which I shall attempt to confirm, if no one else beats me to it.
Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname
-
Kia Ora Orielbenfro
Sorry beenaway having dinner and haven't yet followed up the IGI but you are probably correct!
My concern is now what happened to Eliza Frances Phillips on the 1861. An Eliza F Phillips definitely travelled with the family in 1868 and at her marriage is described as the 5th dau of John. There was also a Mary born 1848. and a Martha born 1854.
I think I need to solve these mysteries before I move further back!
Thanks for your help
Dale
-
My concern is now what happened to Eliza Frances Phillips on the 1861. An Eliza F Phillips definitely travelled with the family in 1868 and at her marriage is described as the 5th dau of John. There was also a Mary born 1848. and a Martha born 1854.
Dale
As per the registers, I believe Mary was baptised in 1848, Martha baptised in 1854 and Eliza Frances Phillips was baptised in 1857 all at Angle, is this what you already have.
Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname
-
As per the registers, I believe James was baptised 1840, Mary was baptised in 1848, Martha baptised in 1854 and Eliza Frances Phillips was baptised in 1857 all at Angle, is this what you already have.
Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname
-
Kia Ora
I have the family baptisms at Angle from the IGI.
I have the family arriving in NZ in 1868.
Thanks to Keyboard I have 1841, 51,61 censii. Some of the family are missing in 1861 but must be alive because they emigrated in 1868.
SO more homework!
Tks
Dale
-
Hi again Dale, re the "missing" children from the 1861 Census:-
James aged 18 occ Carter and William aged 16 occ Groom both b Angle, are working for George and Elizabeth Dickinson and family at Brownslade, Monkton.
Census Ref RG09/4158/53/4
I wonder if the missing "Annie" dob uncertain is the Mary on the 1851, as in 1861 their is an Ann Phillips aged 14 b Angle, shown as Niece to John/Sarah Harries in Tenby, their is also another Niece a Mary Ann Williams aged 20 b Penally in the same household, Sarah Harries was also b Angle c 1810
Census Ref RG09/4153/46/40
Re Martha b 1854 unable to locate b Angle, but there is a family with parents John and Mary as parents in Llanddew Velfrey Pembrokeshire with a Martha b c 1855?
Eliza Francis, still to solve! and Jane, I cannot locate in 1861 any Jane of any age b Angle?
Also wonder if Alice is Martha?
Keyboard86
-
Kia Ora Keyboard
I am having difficulty finding the"missing" ones in NZ also! Wondering if there were deaths aboard ship - seems to be many mysteries!
Thank you for your help in locating James & William - nice to know they were together!
I have seen Eliza written as Elisa - might that make a difference?
Bap 1 March 1857 at Angle to John & Mary A Phillips. Sadly she died aged 30 after 3 children were born.
Thanks VERY much for your help!
Dale
-
Castlemartin Registers
John to John & Alice Phillips of Moor Castlemartin baptised.
Angle Baptism Reg
27 Sep 1840 James to John & Mary Ann Phillips of Hubberton a Servant baptised by Thomas Dalton
04 Jun 1848 Mary to John & Mary Anne Phillips of Broomhill a labourer bapt by Thos Dalton
01 Oct 1854 Martha to John & Mary Ann Phillips of Broomhill a labourer bapt by Thos Dalton
1 Mar 1857 Eliza Frances to John & Mary Anne Phillips of Broomhill labourer bapt by Peter Phelps the Curate.
Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname
-
Sorry forgot to add the attached.
Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname
-
as the Bankin name is familiar to me
This may well be the parents of Mary Ann Rees.
Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname
-
Angle Baptism 1854
In addition to the baptism of Martha I should have added ~
1st Oct 1854 Lidia to John & Mary Ann Phillips of Broomhill a labour baptised by Thos Dalton Vicar.
Appended to the entry by Thos Dalton is the note
"Privately baptised and registered Feby 24th 1846 on page 55"
Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname
-
Orielbenfro!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You are a wee wonder thank you! I obviously have to assimilate all of this info and check against what we have here in Aotearoa as I suspect a few matters have been clouded by the passing of the years!
Nonetheless one cannot argue with the facts as recorded at the time! You have given us a great start and for that I am very grateful!
Thank you! I will try to be less partial next time the All Blacks meet Wales :-*
Promise!
Dale
-
Hi Dale, this is 1851 Census:-
John Phillips 33 occ Ag Lab b Castlemartin Pembrokeshire.
Mary 33
James 10
John 9
William 7
Lydia 5
Mary 3
Elizabeth 7 months
Residing at Broom Hill, Angle, Pembrokeshire.
All other than shown b Angle
Census Ref HO107/2476/564/6
Keyboard86
Hi, just spotted the above and wondered if there was a connection to my Phillips family from Castlemartin
I have John Phillips born 1781 married to Alice Duggan born 1781 ( probably in Angle)They lived at Castlemartin. I received photos of Moor Cottages in Castlemartin from another contact on Rootsweb.
They had 7 children and one of them was daughter Ann born 1820. Ann married William Rees in 1851.They had a son George born 1853. If they belong to your family I should love to have news.
-
Kia Ora Prue
I definitely think we have a connection! Right now I am struggling to reintroduce programs after my computer suffered an elcectrical short during foul weather!
Bear with me for a few days and I'll get back to you!
Regards
A probable Kiwi cuzzie!!
Dale
-
Kia Ora Prue
I definitely think we have a connection! Right now I am struggling to reintroduce programs after my computer suffered an elcectrical short during foul weather!
Bear with me for a few days and I'll get back to you!
Regards
A probable Kiwi cuzzie!!
Dale
Look forward to your news.
Regards,
Prue from UK
-
Kia Ora Prue
I have reinstated my family tree! I do have a JOHN PHILLIPS married to an ALICE with the birth/baptism of a John PHILLIPS baptised 18 Jan 1818 Castlemartin but didn't have Alice's surname.
John Phillips Jnr married Mary Ann Rees 18 July 1840 and had possibly 11 children. John & Mary Ann with family emigrated aboard the "Gertrude" 18 Feb 1868 to Petone New Zealand and then moved north to settle as Farmers near Wanganui.
I guess it's highly likely that my John and your Ann were siblings and possibly married REES siblings! Descendant family of John lives about 500 metres down the road from me! My connection is by marriage.
I'll send a PM with my emal addy so we can "discuss" further!
Regards
Dale
Regards
-
Hi Dale
I hope you don't mind me entering this thread. I was first interested because I have two John and Mary Phillips in my ancestry from South Pembrokeshire. My John Snr was born in 1797 in Tenby and married Mary born in Carew in 1805 (I don't know her maiden name). They had a son John born 1842 who married Mary Jane Thomas. However I am sure John Jnr did not go to NZ since I have a picture of him in ca 1904 with Mary and their 10 children at Hollybush farm near Tenby. So I am sure we are not talking about the same family.
But then I remembered something else. I visited an old university friend in New Zealand about 25 years ago in Matamata. Among the places he took me was to a farm nearby run by a lady called Nan Phillips who I seem to remember came from Wales (that's why I was taken there). I never discovered if Nan was short for Nancy or that she was a grandmother. Might this have been one of your family?
Not any help to you at all, but I would be interested to know if she was related to your deputation from Pembrokeshire
Regards
Brian
-
Tena Koe Brian
I'm afraid I cannot answer your query re NAN PHILLIPS. I have not yet traced all the descendants of my John and wife Mary Ann nee Rees. I am as certain as I can be that my John born 1818 married M.A. REES as the name Rees is used as a forename in later generations.
Interesting though as I have a John born to the above couple baptised 3 April 1842 at Angle Pembrokeshire. Perhaps they were cousins? Descended from one of the 7 children Prue has in her line?
I have no personal knowledge of any of these ancestors - one of my grandmother's sisters married a Phillips and I am simply helping the present generation sort out their heritage! It is quite possible some of them went to live around the Waikato.
If you google NZ Historical BDMs and put in Nancy Phillips + death after 1980 you will see several options- all have birth dates listed so you may be able to tell by her approximate age 25 years ago when you met her.
Sorry I cannot help further at this time!
Hope you enjoyed AOTEAROA!
Dale
-
Many thanks Dale
My John Phillips (jnr) was born in 1842 in Begelly, which is about 15 miles from Angle, so maybe cousins. However there do seem to have been many many Phillips in South Pembrokeshire at that time.
Good luck with the rest of your queries and hopefully you will make some interesting contacts
Cheers
Brian
-
Hello Folks.
I've just "surfed" into your respective threads you posted a few years ago regarding the Phillips family from Castlemartin in South Wales. By strange coincidence while reviewing my wife’s family tree – the Dunn family - I see her grandmother Charlotte Gertrude Dunn MBE, JP (nee Phillips) was the daughter of James and Charlotte Phillips (nee Sooby). James, as you’ll recognise was the eldest son of John and Mary Anne Phillips (nee Rees), the very people you’re all talking about. Your respective conversations have opened up new horizons for me and I was wondering (with what little information I have gathered from those members of the NZ Phillips family that the Dunns maintain contact with) I might be of assistance to you folks? Kind regards Paul (posted 1st July 2014)
-
Hi Paul,
I received your information about James Phillips today. I had not discovered James' wife, so I was pleased to learn that James had married Charlotte Sooby. I had stopped researching family history some time ago as I just kept hitting the brick walls! Its good to refresh my memory and look at my research again so thank you for the wake-up call! if I can be of any assistance please do contact again.
Kind regards, Prue
-
Good Morning Prue,
Thanks very much for your prompt reply. Although having been involved with genealogy for the past 24 years, I’m still a little hesitant when it comes to using this type of open forum to communicate via. However, to clarify a point or two with you, from my research which I hasten to say was complied many years ago I have: - James PHILLIPS: died on 17th February 1920 (presumably on his farm at Matarawa, just outside Wanganui, NZ). His wife Charlotte (nee SOOBY) born c. 1856 London, died in 1881 in Wanganui, NZ. This pair were married 3rd May 1878 in Marton, New Zealand.
While speaking with a family member this morning I’m told that this couple had at least five children. A set of (female) twins, two sons, and their youngest daughter (my wife’s grandmother) Charlotte Gertrude “Gert” Phillips born: 8th January 1880 at Whangaehu, (just outside of Wanganui), died: 29th June 1978 at Lower Hutt, New Zealand.
If you’re comfortable with the idea and wish to explore this branch of the family a little further, please feel free to E-mail at my home address: paullondon@actrix.co.nz My 97-year-old mother-in-law lives just across the road from me, and while her eyesight might be failing, the rest of her works extremely well. I’m sure any questions you may have, can be answered between herself and her remaining (92-year-old) brother-in-law.
Look forward to hearing from you - Paul
-
Thanks Paul.
I have replied to your direct email.
Prue (Joan)
-
Hi Paul,
My direct email was returned to me as your address was not recognised.
Prue
-
Prue.
This is quite bizarre. I clicked on the E-mail address I typed in the “blog”, and guess what? ...it rejected my own address!! Perhaps if you manually load it, rather than “copy/pasting” my address into an E-mail it might work? Without wishing to ask you to broadcast your E-mail address to all and sundry, and should your next attempt be rejected, may I suggest (if you have a cellphone) text me your address to my NZ mobile number: +64-27-279-9436.
Thanks for your patience and perseverance, but this is so "wacky" I'm wondering if I'm having a "senior-moment".
Paul
-
Hello Paul,
Sorry to say the email did not work. I have more or less stopped doing any family history except my direct line as the tree branches got too wide. I do not use a cell phone so communication is limited to the Rootschat.
My direct line is from John Phillips married to Alice Duggan and their son Thomas, ( brother to John
b 1818-1883). If you would like any info about the Phillips please post a question here as I do not wish to post my email address.
Thanks for getting in touch.
Kind regards,
Prue
-
Dear Prue,
My first attempt to reply to you via this forum has met with disaster, in that I exceeded the 5,500 character limit. Well with so much “technology” available to us let’s see if I’ve got myself on the right track and I’ll send my reply out in serial form.
Firstly, I “stumbled” into the Phillips family more by default rather than design while working on my wife’s Dunn family tree, which like so many “trees” is now growing at an exponential rate. As mentioned earlier, her family descend from “Gert” Dunn (nee Phillips) [1880-1978], the daughter of James Phillips [1840-1920] and his wife Charlotte (nee Sooby) [c.1856-1881]. James as we all know was the eldest son of John Phillips [1818-1883] and his wife Mary Ann (nee Rees) [1818-1894].
In re-reading your last posting, it appears you may have gone back one more generation and have identified another “John Phillips” and his wife Alice Duggan. Can I safely assume this couple you’re speaking about are the parents of my wife’s John Phillips [1818-1883]. And without wishing to state the obvious, but if I’m reading your posting correctly “our” John Phillips also has a brother Thomas?
I guess my ignorance is the price I pay for coming in the middle of your conversations with the other NZ’er Dale.
However, in reading through some of Dale’s earlier material shared with you – here’s a “kaleidoscope” of social history items taken from various NZ newspapers of the day which pertain to voyage made by John Phillips [1818-1883] and his wife Mary Ann [1818-1894] and their children. [Noting: there appears to be a couple of additions which don’t feature on any of the census].
While the notes below are in no particular chronological order some of the contents might be of interest to both yourself and any other readers of this forum. To start with:
John and Mary Anne Phillips emigrated to New Zealand on the 667 ton vessel the “Gertrude”, under the command of Captain Dewar. The vessel sailed from London on 19th February 1868 and arrived Wellington at 4.30pm on the 3rd of June 1868. Some 8 weeks later at midnight on July 22nd 1868 the Gertrude sailed from Wellington for Newcastle.
From the vessel’s passenger list we see the following members of the Phillips family:
John Snr
Mrs Mary Ann
James
William
Lydia
Elizabeth
Alice
Eliza J
Jane
Annie
Here endith Part 1
(Paul)
-
Dear Prue,
It seems to be working - here's part II
The next day, 4th June 1868, the Phillips family (and other passengers from the Gertrude) boarded the coastal steamer, the Storm Bird sailing for the river port of Wanganui. This 66 ton vessel under the command of Captain Doile arrived in Wanganui on June 5th 1868. Her passengers are listed as: Miss Brown, Mrs Howe, Messrs. Marshall, Jackson, Taylor, Chadwick, Mr and Mrs McLaren and family, Miss Doyle, Miss Duffy, Mr Phillips and family, 1 native, Messrs. Allan, Stanmore, Lacy; (nearly all of whom arrived from England by the Gertrude.)
~~~~~~~~-------------------------------------------
From the same paper (the Wanganui Herald, dated 5th June 1868, page 2) we read of the Gertrude’s voyage out to New Zealand, where it is reported:
The ship Gertrude, 666 tons, Capt. Dewar, arrived in Wellington at 5 o’clock on Wednesday afternoon from London. The pilot left her on the 26th February off the Isle of Wight. Experienced light favourable winds to the Equator, which was crossed on the 27th March, thirty days out, longitude 23 deg. 26 min. W. From the line experienced light S.E. trades and fine fair weather to the Kerguelens, not having reefed the topsails once. Rap down the longitude in 50 deg. and 51 deg. Doubled the Cape on the 26th April in latitude 45 deg. 11 min. S. Fell in with a furious gale in latitude 49 deg. 51 min. S., and 85 deg. 51 min. E.; ship hove-to for 24 hours shipped some heavy seas, lifting the quarter boats and davits out of the sockets, also stoving one of the lifeboats which was on the skids stove in the skylight on the poop, flooding the cabin and storeroom. Made the Snares on Friday, 29th ult, since which time she experienced boisterous and fine weather, and arrived as above. A midshipman of the name of E. Archibald, deranged, jumped overboard on the occasion of the ship crossing the Line he was immediately rescued by the chief officer and four hands in the ship’s gig; he died on the 12th May from water on the brain, ascertained by a post mortem made by the surgeon; on the same day saw a large iceberg about six miles distant.
The Gertrude brings 100 passengers, chiefly for Napier, equal to 86 statute adults, and 9 cabin passengers. The passengers consist of 24 single women, 26 single men, and 50 souls married with children, all of whom have arrived well and in good health no births or deaths occurred during the passage. There is about 1000 tons of general cargo, consigned to Messrs Levin & Co. After the vessel came to an anchor all the passengers went aft and presented Captain Dewar and Dr Bambridge with a flattering testimonial, for their kindness and careful treatment on the passage. The following passengers arrived in the Gertrude.—Cabin —Mr and Mrs Matheson, Mr and Mrs Clare and 2 children, Mr D. Blythe, Miss Moore, Miss Smith, Miss Guise. Steerage—J. Pembroke and wife, W. McLaren, wife and 7 children, J. Phillips, wife and 1 child, W. Haynes, A. Jeffrey, wife and child, J. Holyman, wife and 3 children, W. Cullen, wife and 2 children, J. Palmer, wife and 5 children, J. Steel and wife, Mrs E. Rawlings and 2 children, E. Poulton, B. Doyle, S. and M. Farmer, S. Duffy, S. Horrocks, Mrs S. Boden and 2 children, M. A. Halpin, A. Reardon, M. Hayes, JT. Scrimgour, D. and C. Hastie, L. Cole, Mr and Miss Knight, Misses Phillips (3), F. Cash, H. Williams, J. Lockett, A. Morris, M. Malone, D. Burke, J. McLellan, A. Orr, S. Desford, A. Mitchell, W. McLellan, T. and W. Horrocks, J. Halpin, M. Aheran, G.Neale, S. Cook, A. Caldwell, A. and D. McLean, G Young, and G. Rose.
Here Endith Part II
(Paul)
-
Prue,
Final Part III follows:
~~~~~~~~-------------------------------
As an interesting aside, the Gertrude was also carrying some 400 birds on behalf of the Nelson Acclimatization Society. A later newspaper article (from the Nelson Examiner & NZ Chronicle, dated 13th June, page 2), goes on to say this about the birds:
News of the Day:
The ship Gertrude, which arrived in Wellington last week, brought out for the Nelson Acclimatization Society a large number of birds, but only about one-third of the number shipped have been landed here, and these were brought on from Wellington in the steamer Phoebe. The following is a list of the birds shipped 72 blackbirds and thrushes, 40 starlings, 120 larks, 50 linnets, 50 chaffinches, 50 greenfinches, and 16 pheasants total, 378 birds. The greatest mortality was experienced by the larks and starlings, of the former there being only a solitary survivor, and of the starlings there remain but six. The shipment is altogether unsatisfactory, and was not by any means in accordance with the order sent home by the Secretary. Of larks, linnets, and finches of the kinds sent, we have already great numbers, as well as pheasants, which are now rapidly spreading throughout the province. The birds are placed for the present in a spacious aviary, and when they have recovered from the effects of the voyage, it will be for the society to consider in what manner they shall be disposed of.
~~~~~~~~-------------------------------
From the 1841 Census it looks like they are living with his wife, Mary’s parents:-
John Phillips 20
Mary 25
James 9 months
David Rees 50
Elizabeth 55
Eliza 20
Lydia 15
Mary Bamkin 75
Martha Bamkin 75
Residing at Angle Village, Pembrokeshire.
Census Ref HO107/1443/ 1/5 / 5
Keyboard86
At the time of his marriage, John Phillips’ occupation was described as a Servant who was then living at Hubberton.
~~~~~~~~-------------------------------
From the Wanganui Herald, dated (Sat) 14th April 1883, page 2: Death Notice:
PHILLIPS - On the 13th inst (April), at his residence, Warrengate Line, John Phillips, aged 66 years. Friends are informed that the Funeral will move from the house at 12.30pm tomorrow (Sunday), arriving at the Matarawa Church at 2 o’clock - Jas, T. Anderson, undertaker, Taupo Quay.
~~~~~~~~-------------------------------
From the Wanganui Chronicle, dated 10th September 1894 - Death Notices:
DEATH.
Phillips — On the 8th September, 1894, Mary Ann, relict of the late John Phillips, Warrengate Line, aged 77 years.
~~~~~~~~-------------------------------
Until a couple of weeks ago, I’ve not had reason to review the Phillips family but on being told of a recent death of a dear relative, (one of the descendants of “Gert” Phillips’ sister’s family) I was asked to add that information.
My wife and I while in the UK a few years ago toured along the south coast of Wales trying to “absorbed” some of her early genealogical history. Unfortunately, it was one of those last minute impromptu arrangements so we didn’t have our genealogical “kit” with us and being reliant on memory missed out on many places. However in a couple of years time after attending the 75th memorial commemorations for the battle of Crete in May 2016, we’ll take the opportunity to return to the UK and in particular Wales in an attempt to retrace some of her family heritage.
So should you have any early historical information on her Phillips family, we’d dearly love to add it to the collection of facts that would invariably make such a visit more meaningful.
Thanks again – and kind regards
Paul