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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Kennington on Friday 29 April 05 16:37 BST (UK)

Title: Occupation -can anyone read this?
Post by: Kennington on Friday 29 April 05 16:37 BST (UK)
Hi

Can anyone decipher Horace's occupation on his marriage certificate?  ???

In censuses he is a coach maker and coach wheeler.  He was living in St Pancras, London at the time.

Thanks
Mary  :)
Title: Re: Occupation -can anyone read this?
Post by: Gardener on Friday 29 April 05 16:38 BST (UK)
Timber bender?
Title: Re: Occupation -can anyone read this?
Post by: Kennington on Friday 29 April 05 16:41 BST (UK)
Hi Gardener.

actually, it sounds feasible. perhaps he made mudguards ??

Mary
Title: Re: Occupation -can anyone read this?
Post by: Gardener on Friday 29 April 05 16:45 BST (UK)
There would be a lot of bent timber in a wheel or coach. I think it was done by heating and then bending. Must have been a skilled job but it looks a bit funny written down :)
Here's one from Bagshaw's 1846 Derby Directory:

Cholerton Harvey coach timber bender Albion St
Title: Re: Occupation -can anyone read this?
Post by: Kennington on Friday 29 April 05 16:48 BST (UK)
Hi
Do you think he would have been an apprentice to learn this ?

Mary
Title: Re: Occupation -can anyone read this?
Post by: Gardener on Friday 29 April 05 16:49 BST (UK)
Probably. Maybe as something more general first, I don't know to be honest. (see alteration above)
Title: Re: Occupation -can anyone read this?
Post by: Llwyd on Friday 29 April 05 17:38 BST (UK)
Hi there,
What about a timber binder..........???
Title: Re: Occupation -can anyone read this?
Post by: Tiger Lily on Friday 29 April 05 19:28 BST (UK)
  ??? It looks like ..... mender.
Title: Re: Occupation -can anyone read this?
Post by: flame on Friday 29 April 05 20:25 BST (UK)
HI It does look like Timber bender or binder when blown up. But could it be bander.
Bandings are plain or patterned strips of veneer used to create decorative borders in furniture making.
Flame
Title: Timber bender
Post by: J.A.M. on Friday 29 April 05 21:15 BST (UK)
A timber bender of the period would likely have been a shipwright. Remember, ships of the period were made of wood & the hull planks coming from the mill were straight. The planks had to be bent into position & secured.
J.A.M.
Title: Re: Timber bender
Post by: Gardener on Friday 29 April 05 22:14 BST (UK)
A timber bender of the period would likely have been a shipwright. Remember, ships of the period were made of wood & the hull planks coming from the mill were straight. The planks had to be bent into position & secured.
J.A.M.

The one I quote above in derby was a coach timber bender - not many ships in derby ;)
Title: Re: Occupation -can anyone read this?
Post by: Mobo on Saturday 30 April 05 11:30 BST (UK)
 ;D ;D

Not come accross this profession before - you learn something everyday here on Rootschat

 ;D ;D
Title: Re: Occupation -can anyone read this?
Post by: Sylviaann on Saturday 30 April 05 14:34 BST (UK)
Just googled timber binder.  Be careful some of them seem to be rude but I found this
http://www.sharonhist.org/Pastnewsletters/newswinter01.htm  There was another site from an official source (Engineering or something)

A timber binder seems to be a piece of wood or metal which joins other pieces of timber so perhaps he put in the joining bits.

Sylviaann
Title: Re: Occupation -can anyone read this?
Post by: kmo on Saturday 30 April 05 16:18 BST (UK)
I think it's timber bender. There seems to be a definite dot above all the i's on the certificate.
There's an article about the science of bending timber to make coach wheel rims here.
http://www.carriagemuseumlibrary.org/wood_bending.htm
Title: Re: Occupation -can anyone read this?
Post by: Kennington on Saturday 30 April 05 17:02 BST (UK)
Thanks kmo,

what a brilliant site for explaining carriage making. I'll make a copy to keep in my file on Horace.

 ;D ;D

Mary
Title: Re: Occupation -can anyone read this?
Post by: TonyV on Saturday 30 April 05 22:37 BST (UK)
Could it be Printer Binder? As in someone who binds printed books?
Title: Re: Occupation -can anyone read this?
Post by: JAP on Sunday 01 May 05 10:40 BST (UK)
Kennington,

I'm a bit surprised, especially given his later occupations, that anyone would go for anything other than 'timber bender' - which it seems clearly to be!

You could always seek a clearer copy of the certificate just to make quite sure?  My experience is that, if you have been provided with a poor quality certificate, the office will do its best to produce something quite legible.

Cheers,

JAP
Title: Re: Occupation -can anyone read this?
Post by: maidmarianoops on Sunday 01 May 05 12:23 BST (UK)
BENDER:
 a person who cut leather
 
Alfred H Hawks 1857  Pancras Son  St Pancras  London


 Harriet I K Hawks 1826  Thetford, Norfolk, England Head  "  "   
 Janes M Hawks 1869  Pancras Daughter  " "   
 Mary A Hawks 1830  Stanstead, Essex, England Wife  " "   
 Rosina I Hawks 1861  Pancras Daughter  "   
 Walter R Hawks 1859  Pancras Son  "   
 William F Hawks 1864  Pancras Son  "     
 William Simmonds 1825  Newington, Surrey, England Lodger  "   
 Edwin Wilkinson 1847  Shipdham, Norfolk, England Lodger  " 

1871 CENSUS
HARRIET IS HORACE
JUST IN CASE YOU HAVE NOT GOT THIS
SYLVIA
Title: Re: Occupation -can anyone read this?
Post by: piedstilt on Sunday 01 May 05 13:42 BST (UK)
I'm with Tony. It looks like printer binder to me (which makes sense).

Ros
Title: Re: Occupation -can anyone read this?
Post by: Kennington on Sunday 01 May 05 14:48 BST (UK)
Hi

thanks for all suggestions, in 1861 census he was a coach wheeler,
so I think i'll go for timber bender. seems to fit best.

Sylvia, - yes I had that entry. Harriet is one of my better misspells!

Mary
Title: Re: Occupation -can anyone read this?
Post by: JAP on Sunday 01 May 05 14:59 BST (UK)
I'm with Tony. It looks like printer binder to me (which makes sense).
Ros
Ros, I'm puzzled!

What sense?  Why?

The words pretty clearly read as 'timber bender' rather than 'printer binder'(!) - if nothing else, look at the 'P' in Parish vis-a-vis the 'T' in Timber (not to mention the 'P' in St Pancras - though hard to decipher, it also is nothing like the 'T' in Timber).

More importantly, the chap's occupations in other censuses were (according to 'Kennington') a 'coach maker' and a 'coach wheeler'.  Definitely a greater connexion to coaches and wheels than to books ; )

And 'Gardener' quoted an 1846 directory entry for an occupation of 'coach timber bender'.

A Google for 'timber bender' gets quite a few hits (including the one quoted by 'Gardener').

Yes, 'Kennington', I'm sure you are right to stick with the 'timber bender' ; )

JAP

 
Title: Re: Occupation -can anyone read this?
Post by: Jackienock on Sunday 01 May 05 16:40 BST (UK)
This looks very much to me like

TINKER MENDER

In other words someone who went round mending saucepans and buckets. That was in the days before the throw away society.
Title: Re: Occupation -can anyone read this?
Post by: JAP on Sunday 01 May 05 17:07 BST (UK)
This looks very much to me like
TINKER MENDER.
<snip>
Apart from everything mentioned previously on this thread (and apart from other comparisons of letters) just compare the 'M' in Mary with the 'B' in Bender.  And then compare the 'B' in Bender with the 'B' in Bachelor!

JAP
Title: Re: Occupation -can anyone read this?
Post by: alllegs on Sunday 01 May 05 17:15 BST (UK)
I'm with you on this one JAP,

It definately says TIMBER BENDER

Legs
xxxx
Title: Re: Occupation -can anyone read this?
Post by: Jackienock on Sunday 01 May 05 17:23 BST (UK)
OK JAP, fair comment, I obviously didn't study the other letters closely enough. Pitty there isn't a lower case 'b' somewhere to compare where I was suggesting a 'k'
Title: Re: Occupation -can anyone read this?
Post by: TonyV on Sunday 01 May 05 18:20 BST (UK)
I give in...timber bender it is, now that I've seen the image blown up
Title: Re: Occupation -can anyone read this?
Post by: Magrat on Monday 02 May 05 14:01 BST (UK)
Hi,

For what it's worth I saw a programme on the telly where they were building a coach wheel in the original way and the took lengths of timbers and heated them with steam for some hours and then bent them into a circle to make the wheel over which an iron tread was fitted.  So perhaps a timber bender was the person who did this??

Magrat