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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: gordon40uk on Saturday 18 June 11 20:46 BST (UK)
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My mum has been extremely ill recently and has sat and told me about a baby she had in 1960 ( my brother ) who died when he was 4 weeks old. Due to my mum only being 15 years old at the time, my gran took over the burial of my brother. Both my gran and grandad are long dead now, my mum is 65 years of age and her knowledge of back when my brother died is limited. She knows he was buried in a glasgow graveyard (dont know which one apart from probably dennistoun region ), She knows there was no headstone erected and he was buried at the feet of a total stranger. I have managed to find out the funeral directors name. I know my brothers full name, date of birth and death, address at the time of death, he died in yorkhill sick kids in Glasgow at 4 weeks of age. I have contacted glasgow district council and been told they want £63 to search for where he is buried and we just dont have that type of money. My mum is very very ill and this is tearing her apart.I have tried mitchell library but there records only go up to around 1953. I need to find out for my mums sake mainly as, god knows what this is doing to her not knowing where her baby is buried but she needs to find out before she dies. Is there any help you can give, anything at all would be so appreciated. I can supply any information you might need to help, birthdate, deathdate, area of death etc. I really do hope you can help us put him to rest properly.
gordon
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I'm sorry I don't know how to help ,or I would. Hopefully someone else will be along soon that knows how to do this.
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Unfortunately as there is no stone you will only find the lair number from Glasgow Council, I doubt the undertaker would keep records that far back
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Possibly in this cemetery
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/125147
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If it was in the Dennistoun area it may well be either Sighthill or Riddrie Park cemetery. If the Mitchell doesn't have records then I doubt very much that anyone on this List could help. If your brother was buried at a stranger's feet, he may well have been put into a pauper's grave. If that is the case, it will, after half a century, probably be impossible to locate, sorry.
The undertaker may still have the records, you wont know until you ask.
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Thanks for all the replies. I never understood why they would put a 4 week old baby at the feet of a stranger but i guess times were different back then. The undertaker who carried out the funeral was based in the gallowgate, there name was alex black, no relation to the now alex black in drumchapel who have only been in business 8 years. On my brothers death certificate it has the registered death area as Blythswood and i know back then my mum lived in Carntyne Road hence why im thinking it would be a dennistoun cemetery. I suppose its going to have to be a matter of saving up and seeing if glasgow district council have any information. Thanks again for at least responding.
gordon
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It does sound as if he is buried in common ground as it is unlikely that he is in a private lair of a stranger.
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What a sad story Gordon.
Like Lodger, I don't know how anyone here could help other than if they worked for the Council.
His place of burial wouldn't have been Sighthill as it closed for burials in the 1950's.
The Mitchell don't hold any records for Riddrie Park - I found that out when I as looking for someone myself.
I would think the most likely option would be Sandymount Cemetery (on Hallhill Road) in Springboig, just along the road from Carntyne (off Gartocher Terrace). On some of the maps sites, it's wrongly labelled Glenduffhill.
Glenduffhill is also on Hallhill Road (opposite Garvel Road) and from an aerial view is easily recognisable as it's a Jewish Cemetery, so all the stones are in long straight rows. (Can't remember offhand if they face the east of the west)
Unfortunately, Sandymount's burial records aren't held at the Mitchell either. They do have Lair Owner's Registers, but these are only of use if you knew who the Lair Owner was.
Anne
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Hi Anne, am i getting this right, even though our family are church of scotland, because he was put at the feet of a stranger could that mean he could have ended up in a jewish cemetery?
gordon
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Oh Sorry Gordon, that's not what I meant.
I meant that the most 'local' non-denominational cemetery to Carntyne would be Sandymount.
I thought maybe you would have a look at some aerial view to see where it was and I didn't explain things very well!
If you were to look on an aerial view on Bing Maps, you would see it marked as Glenduffhill whereas on Google maps, it's correctly named as Sandymount (Glenduffhill being futher along the same road.)
If the lair the baby was buried in was privately owned, then the lair owner's permission would have to be given for the interment, so perhaps this 'owner was actually someone known to the family?
I don't have any knowledge about the rules and regulations for Jewish burials, but as far as I'm aware, there is only ever one person buried in each lair - of course I might be wrong.
Anne
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Hi Anne yes it was me, i misunderstood sorry. Does anyone have the email address of the relevant place to contact with glasgow district council for cemetaries? tHANKS
Gordon
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http://www.glasgow.gov.uk/en/Residents/BirthDeathMarriage_Citizenship/Death/Burialgrounds/
http://www.gla.ac.uk/schools/socialpolitical/staff/iainhutchison/
sylvia
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Gordon, I know this is probably a long shot, but have you thought about contacting the hospital where your brother died to see if they can help at all? I see from their website that they have a Family Bereavement Department which is open 9-5 Mon to Fri. I was just wondering if, despite the time gap, if you contacted them and explained the effect it is having on your Mum, they might know somebody who could help.
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Hi thanks for the response. I was in contact with a chap called Iain Hutchison who explained that the most the hospital would have is the undertakers name. The undertaker no longer exists so i cannot go down that route. He suggested i contact bereavement services of glasgow district council explaining the circumstances as, according to him, in certain circumstances, they can waiver the fee so i have sent all the details to them so just waiting on them getting back to me, as soon as i find something out i will let you all know how i get on.
gordon
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I do hope they can help. Let's hope that humanity beats bureaucracy on this occasion.
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just wondering if perhaps blacks were taken over by one of the larger undertakers and if this site may be able to tell you that it has a contact us section www.funeraldirectors.net or they could advise
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Hi Gordon
I am sorry that I cant help with your search ..... but I just felt the need to comment (rightly or wrongly)
I hope you find what you need, to find closure.... to rest in peace as a family, I really do x
I have read your thread several times now and feel the pain your mum is feeling, and pain of your understanding.... I have a similar story in my past a little more recent than your mum's .... I am not particularly reglious..... but the fact that your mum and you feel the way you do.. the need to find closure to make a heart felt record is a comfort to the little one lost in records but...... Always remembered in the heart..... x I am sure not many days have passed in your mum's life that a little thought has gone heavenward.
Good luck with your quest and hope you can find answer's before too long and agree with winterbloom
"Let's hope that humanity beats bureaucracy on this occasion."
Good luck with your quest x
Best regards
Kim
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Thank you everyone for your kind words. I contact Glasgow Bereavement Services yesterday and received an email letter from them today, it reads:
I refer to your recent enquiry regarding the above and regret to advise that we were unable to locate Baby Anderson within our archive records.
However I can can confirm that on contacting the Archdiocese of Glasgow who hold the burial records
for St Peters Dalbeth Cemetery on London Road, their records confirm that Baby Anderson was
buried within Common Ground on 15th October 1960.
Should you wish to contact the Archdiocese of Glasgow for any further information or assistance in
being shown the location of common ground they can be contacted on 0141 226 5898.
I trust this information is of assistance.
So that was good news, all i need to do now is find the lair number if they still have that information and if that part of the cemetery still exists.
Thank you again for the help and advice from everyone on here.
gordon
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That's great news Gordon. I think you'll find that there won't be an actual lair number if you are dealing with common ground (I had this with an ancestor of mind in St. Peter's Dalbeth) but they will certainly be able to tell you where the common ground section is. I hope that this helps your Mum. Regards, Siobhan
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Hi Gordon,
That's a piece of good news!
If you have a look here: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,495487.0.html you'll see an aerial view of St. Peter's with the 'Common Ground' Sections marked with a small red 'c'.
I believe (although I may be wrong), that although you'd be unable to locate a single in these sections, there will be Register of Burials in Common Ground. (I have looked at the one for St. Kentigern's Cemetery held by the Mitchell Library.) The lairs in Common Ground are as precise as every other privately held lair, so there will be a 'plan' somewhere.
When you think about it, there would have to be record of some sort - otherwise how would the cemetery staff have known exactly where any past/future burials would be!
If you can, go along to St. Peter's during the week when the wee cemetery office is open. The chap there is really helpful and I'm pretty sure he'd be only to happy to help if he can. If details of the exact lair can be found, usually one of the staff will 'pace it out' for you.
I wish you the best of luck finding your wee brother.
Anne
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Baby Anderson Burial Record Saint Peters Cemetery
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Very good of you to post that dixie6 though it has been 14 yrs since gordon last posted here i hope him and is mum get some comfort from it, just to add that there is 3 common ground sections all within the same area of the vast grave yard of Dalbeth St Peters and the staff can point to the burial section given the dates known at the bothy/office on site.