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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: LizzieW on Saturday 18 June 11 11:41 BST (UK)

Title: Roman Catholic records London
Post by: LizzieW on Saturday 18 June 11 11:41 BST (UK)
I'm sure this info must be somewhere on Roots, but I can't find it.

Can anyone tell me where I would find RC parish records for London.  I'm still trying to find out about my g.grandfather's background and if, as I've been told since a young child, his mother was Spanish and called Da Costa, the chances are she was a Roman Catholic. 

As g.grandfather's name was George William Wright, I don't know if this means Da Costa was his mother's maiden name, or whether she wasn't married.  I can't get any more info from my elderly aunt (why ever didn't I ask my dad more questions whilst he was still alive  ??? ).  I do know my gran (George Wright's daughter) had a photo of this Spanish lady on her mantlepiece, which might infer that even if George Wright was illegitimate, he wasn't adopted and knew who his mother was.

Unfortunately, there doesn't appear to be a marriage between George Wright and my g.gran so no way of finding out who his father was.  I know all about g.gran, she was married previously so it has been very easy to trace her family, especially as my dad used to talk about her sisters, his g.aunts.

Lizzie
Title: Re: Roman Catholic records London
Post by: Maryam on Saturday 18 June 11 12:28 BST (UK)
Hi Lizzie

George's birth cert?  Marriage cert?  (Sorry, didn't read your post properly  ::) ).  What parent details do they give?  When/where was he born?  Does he show up in censuses?  Siblings' names?

KR
Maryam
Title: Re: Roman Catholic records London
Post by: LizzieW on Saturday 18 June 11 12:41 BST (UK)
Maryam

No info on him really.  First time he shows up is on my gran's birth certificate in 1884.  Then he is on 1891, 1901 and 1911 census with his "wife" and children, plus occasionally stepchildren.  He died in 1935 at the same address as he lived from at least 1901 census.

So no birth cert, because having already bought about 6 "wrong" ones (that is ones that don't have a mother with a maiden name of da Costa, or any variation on it), I'm not inclined to get any more.  He was apparently born about 1857 in Bethnal Green - that place only appearing on the 1911 census.  Before that it was just London or Middlesex.  His date of birth is only guessed from census and his death cert, but of course, his son who registered his death would only know the age he was told his father was.  If he was born in 1857, g.gran would have been 14 years older than him, so I'm inclined to think he may even have been younger than he implied so as to make the difference in age seem less.  I know g.gran put an age younger than she was on census, but I have her birth certificate, her first marriage cert and her death cert, so I know how old she really was - as obviously did g.grandad as he registered her death and put her real age on it. ::).

So, basically, I'm looking for a needle in a haystack.  From the 1891 census and gran's birth certificate he was a fisherman before giving it up sometime before the 1901 census.

I'm clutching at straws now, thinking was he RC, or as his children and some of his grandchildren look Jewish, was he Jewish?

Lizzie
Title: Re: Roman Catholic records London
Post by: LizzieW on Saturday 18 June 11 12:44 BST (UK)
Little Nell

Thanks for moving to London/Middlesex board - I didn't think of posting on here as I was really asking a question about RC records.

Lizzie
Title: Re: Roman Catholic records London
Post by: Plummiegirl on Saturday 18 June 11 15:20 BST (UK)
My understanding would be that RC records will be held within the church where any baptism, marriage or funeral service may have taken place.

Another thing to consider is the many angliscised versions of the name

I have   COSTER, COSTAR, COSTA, Da COSTA and a few others I cannot remember of the top of my head, amongst mine.   

Coster in the main will be an English surname taken from the job descripton Costermonger.  (Seller of Apples and/or a stallholder)
Title: Re: Roman Catholic records London
Post by: LizzieW on Saturday 18 June 11 16:08 BST (UK)
Thanks Plummie.  Not very easy to search RC records then if it means a trip to every possible church.

I have found a marriage (not RC) of a Peter Coster to a Lilian Wright, but that's the wrong way round and in any case the marriage was 1852 so any thought I had that Lilian may have had my g.grandfather before marrying Mr.Coster went out of the window.  I know ages on census are a bit dodgy, but with g.gran being born in 1843, I can't think George, who seems to have been born around 1857, would have made himself younger than he was when getting together with an older woman. ::)

Back to banging my head against a brick wall I think.

Lizzie
Title: Re: Roman Catholic records London
Post by: MarieC on Sunday 19 June 11 10:13 BST (UK)
Hi Lizzie,

I agree, having RC ancestors in London is incredibly difficult and frustrating - been there, done that!

Just two crumbs which may or may not help you.  I was amazingly lucky in that I emailed several RC churches about mine (yes, they all still have their records) and the one that answered was the church they attended!  St James Spanish Place.  They were incredibly kind and helpful to me - whether they took pity because I was in Oz, I don't know.  But they looked up their records and found mine for me. 

It may be in the wrong part of London for your man, but might be worth getting in touch with them just to check.

Also, do you know about parishregister.com?  A great little mob who are are putting online the baptism registers of all East London parishes, plus a lot of watermen and lightermen stuff, plus other things.  They have made CDs of various Roman Catholic registers of parishes in London, which are available for purchase.  Have a look at their website, see what you think!  If you like, you can arrange to get their monthly e-newsletter.

Hope some of that helps.

MarieC
Title: Re: Roman Catholic records London
Post by: LizzieW on Sunday 19 June 11 23:26 BST (UK)
Hi Marie

I did know of parishregister.com but I'd forgotten about it.  I'll have another look to see if I can see anything.

Thank you for the idea of e-mailing RC churches, I'll google to find the most appropriate ones around the Bethnal Green area.  The problem really is not knowing whether his name was Da Costa (or variants) and he changed it to Wright, or whether his parents were married and he was baptised as a Wright.  Or even if any of his names are his original ones. ???

Lizzie
Title: Re: Roman Catholic records London
Post by: MarieC on Monday 20 June 11 09:06 BST (UK)
Yes - that surname confusion is just what you don't need when you are looking for RC ancestors!

Good luck!

MarieC
Title: Re: Roman Catholic records London
Post by: LizzieW on Monday 20 June 11 10:03 BST (UK)
Quote
Yes - that surname confusion is just what you don't need when you are looking for RC ancestors!

Fortunately, he is the only one I've had confusion with regarding his name and apart from my OH's 3 x g.grandparents, the only one who is RC (well OH's ancestors definitely were, don't know about my g.grandfather, just another speculative avenue to follow).

Lizzie
Title: Re: Roman Catholic records London
Post by: Ottawa_John on Saturday 17 September 11 01:00 BST (UK)
I just got a Roman Catholic record from
Administrative Archivist Westminster Diocesan Archives
16a Abingdon RoadKensingtonLondonW8 6AFTel: 0207 938 3580
Normal Office Hours: Monday-Wednesday, 9:30am-5:30pm.
We are open to the public by appointment only on Monday and Wednesday afternoons.

The lady there was very helpful and I was directed there by a parish priest in Whitechapel.
Title: Re: Roman Catholic records London
Post by: MarieC on Saturday 17 September 11 10:31 BST (UK)
Excellent information, Ottawa_John, for those who can visit!  (Bit difficult, from Australia!)

If anyone comes across the 18th century origins of Roman Catholics Thomas Martin and Agnes Jenkins, who married in London in 1802, do let me know!  I'll probably never find them, as I don't think RC records exist from the 1760s and 70s, but I cling to faint hopes...

MarieC
Title: Re: Roman Catholic records London
Post by: Suffolk Mawther on Saturday 17 September 11 22:02 BST (UK)
An American friend who has researched RC records in the UK tells me that she sends a written request to the church of her ancestral search, together with a small donation to the church funds, and a self addressed envelope.

She has been very successful in finding records. 

I have yet to try this, but once I have located the church I need in London I will try this method too  ;)

Pat ...

Title: Re: Roman Catholic records London
Post by: Valda on Sunday 18 September 11 13:50 BST (UK)
Hi

If you look at the burial guide on the Rootschat London and Middlesex boards it has a section on Roman Catholic records linking to the diocesan archivists and also each diocesan directory which lists the churches and addresses websites etc and any online lists of records they hold from churches, the Catholic library and its holdings and the Catholic History Society (the links and information are not just about burial records).

Westminster Archives list of Roman Catholic registers give an indication of just how early surviving registers can be.

http://www.westminster.gov.uk/workspace/assets/publications/Info-Sheet-02-Catholic-Regs-1271423092.pdf

The Guildhall Library also have some early published transcripts of Catholic registers. The Catholic Record Society produced some transcripts in the C19th but usually in their original latin.

e.g. online

Includes the registers of Bruno Cantrill, in London, 1726-55.--J.A. Smallwood, in London, 1730-50.--A.P. Baker, near Lincoln's Inn Fields; 1747-73.--Lincoln's Inn Fields chapel, (Sardinian chapel) 1731-1822.

http://www.archive.org/details/miscellanea05britgoog


Regards

Valda
Title: Re: Roman Catholic records London
Post by: MarieC on Monday 19 September 11 10:59 BST (UK)
Thanks for this, Valda!

I will investigate a bit further - though I have no idea where in London my folks might have been before St James Spanish Place!!!

MarieC
Title: Re: Roman Catholic records London
Post by: susan56 on Wednesday 29 May 13 20:34 BST (UK)
Hi I have just signed up on this site

I am the daughter of Harry James Venables.
My Granddad is Sidney Richard Venables
Grandmother Ada madaline Copley

Susan