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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: rdwags79 on Friday 17 June 11 23:46 BST (UK)
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Does anyone here read German? This is on the back of a picture. Not sure who is in the picture and am hoping if we know what was written on the back it might help.
Thanks in advance- Deb
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Hi Deb
Helene Okle
geb. Helene Löfler 1846
zu Mittelzell
Insel Reichenau, Amt Konstanz
Baden
Mittelzell on the Isle of Reichenau in Lake Constance
It's very beautiful around the lake.
Regards, Peonie
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Wow Peonie, well done :o There's very little in that script that looks anything like what you've managed to get out of it! I suppose like reading any other script it's just learning the letter-forms but I'm still impressed ;D
Deb, I was going to say that the clothing in the photo looks like late 1860s/early 70s (based on English forms of clothing, anyway), so possibly that fits with the apparent age of the lady pictured. I'm not sure that it's the original photo, though - the type of photograph and the mount look like something from the early 1900s.
Cheers
Prue
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Small point, but the first name is Helena, with an "a".
I'd also read the maiden surname as Böhler, not Löfler.
What do you think, Peonie?
Adrian
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You are right Adrian, I should have been a bit more careful. *can't get the grinning smilie .There are still plenty of Böhlers on the Island.
Prue - as you can see, not so wow :o
Regards Peonie
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I still think it's impressive ;)
Adrian or Peonie, can you explain why her name would end in an "a", when that letter looks the same as the "e"s (and the "n"s for that matter ;D ) ?
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lousy writing? When you look at the "e" in Okle you can see a proper formed "e". The last letter in Helene(a) could just as well be a second n. It's always difficult with names.
;D ;D ;D
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Thanks everyone. My maiden name if Boehler, so the Bohler fits the best. My great grandfather stowed away on a ship from Baden Germany in 1872. His obit says he was the youngest of 7 children, but nowhere do we have who his mother, father, brothers or sisters were. The story goes that he was a soldier in the Franco-Prussia War and was having an affair with his superior officer's girlfriend. The officer found out and was coming for him so he left his home in the middle of the night and stowed away for America. Makes it really hard to track him back to his family and for some reason if anyone ever knew the names of his family members it was never passed down.
This gives me some direction! Thanks!
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I am new to genealogy research and am getting pretty good at searching the US records. I know nothing about searching records in Germany. Can anyone suggest a place/website to start? Is Ancestry still the best, only need to upgrade my membership or are there other good sources? Are there records of the members of the Franco-Prussian War?
Thanks again to all.
Deb
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Prue- It is an odd picture. It is very thin paper and does not feel like a photograph so I am sure that you are right in it not being the original. The card that it is pasted on says, " Miss Wilson's Studio" Jonesboro Arkansas. When Conrad Boehler came to the US he ended up in Lincoln, Illinois. May have been a Miss Wilson's that copied the picture for him or something of that sort?
He arrived here in 1872.
Deb
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Hi Deb,
Yes, that's definitely a possibility. He could have brought the original with him and when it started to fade he had it copied and re-printed. Without seeing it in really close-up detail though, I can't tell what sort of print it is.
If you want to get the picture dated, let me know. I can post a link on the Photo Restoration and Dating board to get the experts to come and have a look.
If you have the photo, a really detailed scan of one section of the photo (say, her face) as big as you can get it (and in as high a resolution as possible) would help me to work out what the process is. At the moment, because of its great condition and your description, I'm wondering if it's a carbon print, which would be unusual and very nice to have :)
Cheers
Prue
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Hi Deb,
here is a site for Reichenau: http://www.ahnenforschung-jackmuth.de/main.htm
Have a look at all 3 villages on Reichenau. Under "Geburten" for Oberzell you find Konrad Böhler born 1852, could be yours.
If you want to know more about Reichenau, you can look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichenau_Island
Good luck, Peonie
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Peonie- My Conrad listed his birthdate as Oct. 16, 1949. We always thought that he was born in Baden Baden Germany. But in most of the records he just listed birthplace as Baden...which is just an area of Germany right?
Thanks for your help, any ideas or suggestions are most welcome.
Deb
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Prue-
Here is a scan of her face in 9600 dpi. Will this help? Yes, I would like to get it dated. There is a date on the back of 1846, but not sure what that represents. Her birth year maybe. Surely not the year it was taken?
Thanks for your help-
Deb
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Hi Deb :)
That does help, actually, because I can see a bit of silver mirroring just under her chin, which indicates that this is a silver gelatin print. These were produced after 1885 so that's the earliest that this reprint could be. I still think this dates closer to 1900 when these big mounts were in vogue.
I'll pop a link over on the Photo board and ask folks to come and give their opinion on the dates :)
Yes, 1846 is her birthdate, as indicated by the text on the back of the photo :)
Cheers
Prue
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Mh, looks like late 1860s to me.
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Mh, looks like late 1860s to me.
That's what I think too - perhaps it's a 21st birthday portrait (if the 21st had the same significance in Switzerland as in English-speaking lands).
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Hello Deb
the "Kirchenbücher" for Baden-Baden and Mittelzell were filmed by the Mormons and are listed on their Library Catalog. You can order them through your local History Centre.
Prue - very generous of you to give Reichenau to Switzerland! :o Hope to visit there next year. My son lives just a stone throw away from it.
Regards Peonie
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Just a suggestion, which may have already been covered, if the lady was b1846, and your ancestor migrated to USA in 1872, then I think the original photo was probably taken immediately before her marriage, obviously before 1872, and probably between 1866 and 1872. Worth searching for?
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'Thanks to everyone for the information. I am excited to do some more research now!
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Prue - very generous of you to give Reichenau to Switzerland! :o
My fault for not reading all the details in the previous messages! I was thinking of Baden which is a town in Switzerland that I've visited ;)
Baden
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Hi Deb
I have been researching my German side from Baden Württemberg now for a year and regularly order microfilms with the parish records on from the Mormon Church of the Latter Day Saints (familysearch.org). You can have these delivered to your local family history centre and view them there.
http://forum.ahnenforschung.net/forumdisplay.php?f=37 is a good site for German writing translation with the help of Peonie, Adrain and PrueM of course! :)
I have found reading the old german fascinating and have learnt a great deal.
Gary
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I went on a school exchange to Baden Wurttemberg in 1977 :) Do you have any ancestors from Mockmuhl Gary? It's a lovely region and I'd like to revisit one day.
Heather
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Hi HeatherLynne
I haven't come across any from Mockmuhl as yet, will let you know if I do though!
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Hi Viking Man I believe I have a connection to the GLOCK family and would lke to enquire into this with you please? Best Wishes Roger
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Hi Roger
That's interesting. What is your connection with the Glock's?
Gary
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Going back to Deb's original photo, if I may....
http://www.landesarchiv-bw.de/plink/?f=5-483778-49 (Bild 49, 2nd entry on left page)
Helena, legitimate daughter of Johann Evangelist Böhler and Anna Maria Zembrodt. Born at 1am on 25 August 1846 and baptised the same day at 5pm.
http://www.landesarchiv-bw.de/plink/?f=5-483778-630 (Bild 630, right-hand page)
On 21 June 1869 at 9am in Mittelzell, Constantin Okle, batchelor, farmer, born 14 Nov 1841, son of Matthä Okle and Anna Maria Welti, married Helena Böhler, spinster, born 25 August 1846, daughter of Johann Ev. Böhler and Anna Maria Zembrodt. Witnesses Joseph Alois Zembrodt and Benedikt Böhler.
Both events happened at Mittelzell, Reichenau.
Adrian
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Thanks Adrian. I wish I could find her connection to my Conrad Boehler born
Oct 16, 1849. All I have is that he was born in Baden Germany and was the youngest of 7. No names of the siblings were passed down. On his death certificate his son listed his father's name as C. Boehler also.
The picture was with my Boehler families things so believe there must be a connection but have not found it yet.
Thanks for your help-
Deb