RootsChat.Com
Census Lookups General Lookups => Census and Resource Discussion => Topic started by: Just Kia on Tuesday 14 June 11 23:14 BST (UK)
-
On the 1901 census - the column headed "Number of rooms occupied if less than five"...
What rooms were or were not counted?
For example I know that on the 1911 you would have counted the kitchen but not the scullery, landing, lobby, closet, bathroom, warehouse, office or shop.
I've got a newly wed couple who seem to be living in some kind of bedsit/boarding house arrangment - ie there are multiple households within the same address, most having one or two rooms only.
The newly weds have just one room. I'm curious if that means they would have had private kitchen/bathroom facilites within their one room or if they would have been sharing those kind of facilites and their one room was a bedroom/living area.
If it helps to see the actual entry it's Albert & Ellen BRIDGES at 1 Marsland Road, Newington RG13-382-F163-P26
-
I can't really help, but I'm interested in finding out the answer to this as well.
From a quck google search I can't see what specifies a "room" in 1901. Looking at those not counted in the 1911 census it's obviously the 'rooms' where you do not live or sleep, so I expect it would have been the same in 1901.
I think that the more public type rooms such as kitchen would have been shared. As for bathroom, you may find that there was a public wash-house outdoors or in the yard if there was one, for the tennants personal and laundry use, and your folk's one room would have been a combination bedroom/living room as you suggest.
I think that sometimes even more than one family shared a single room which must have been pretty grim ... :(
Just my 'guesses' :)
PS. I will check the 1901 entry now.
-
Thanks Ruskie,
It piqued my interest because I used to live in a bedsit house (a huge old Victorian Villa). I lived in the basement and shared a kitchen/bathroom with one other person - there were just the two bedsit rooms, kitchen and bathroom in the basement so it was quite nice.
However, all other rooms had a mini kitchenette area in the actual bedsit room and only shared bathrooms.
-
Yes, it's gone full circle in a way, with big old houses being split into bedsits. Of course the hygiene and plumbing these days can't compare with 100 years ago ;) and yours sounds nice.
I haven't been able to find Marsland Road on a map of today - the area has probably been redeveloped. I also started searching for it on the Booth Poverty Maps, but got a bit lost, so gave up. There's lots of good info in his 'notebooks' which may give more insight about the conditions they may have lived in.
Have you found Albert and Ellen in 1911 to see how they're getting on?
-
Neither the 1891 or 1901 Census Acts, or the instructions to the householders or enumerators ever define 'room'. The householder was responsible for providing this information in 1891, but it became the enumerator's job in 1901.
Stan
-
Marsland Road is now Masrland Close in Southwark (the other street names around it match the 1901 so I'm fairly certain it's the right one). It seems that it's been built across, presumably why it's "close" now instead of "road".
The buildings there look too new to be the same ones as in 1901,although there are flats there and you can see older buildings in an adjoining street (have to love google maps).
I do have them in 1911 in 2 rooms, with 3 children; 2 streets away in Tarver Road - which also looks to be fairly new build now as well.
I remember my 1xG Grandfather's cottage, which was technically 2 rooms. The front (only) door opened into the living room, there was a teeny kitchen under the stairs (sloping ceiling!), a tiny landing at the top of the stairs and their bedroom, the outhouse was down the bottom of the garden and they had a tin bath.
It was lovely for 1XG Grandad on his own and probably quite nice when it was both him and his wife, but I can't imagine that it would have been much fun for a young couple with 3 children.
I also remember how much furniture was crammed into that tiny cottage.
2 chairs, a 2 seat settee, a piano, a box radio, a sideboard, a cabinet/dresser, a low table, a standard lamp... and somehow we all used to fit (Grandma, Granddad, dad and me) when we went to visit 1xG Granddad of an evening :o
-
Neither the 1891 or 1901 Census Acts, or the instructions to the householders or enumerators ever define 'room'. The householder was responsible for providing this information in 1891, but it became the enumerator's job in 1901.
Stan
As JustKia has posted 1911 householder's schedule has;
"Write below the Number of Rooms in this Dwelling (House, Tenement, or Apartment). Count the kitchen as a room but do not count scullery, landing, lobby, closet, bathroom, ; nor warehouse, office, shop."
Stan
-
For example I know that on the 1911 you would have counted the kitchen but not the scullery, landing, lobby, closet, bathroom, warehouse, office or shop.
;) ;D
-
I'm guilty of what a lot of people seem to do, which is not read the previous posts ::)
Stan
-
You're human, we all do it and you're forgiven :D
-
Is your g granddad's cottage still there Justkia? Sounds a bit like my place ... small and crammed with furniture and 'stuff'. ;)
I don't know why Marsland Close didn't come up as a 'suggestion' when I typed it into the box on google maps ... :-\
-
No, sadly they knocked the cottages down a long time ago and instead built a very large 4 bed semi (well two techincally, I suppose ;D ) in what used to be the gardens.
So, it's gone from 2 tiny cottages with lots of garden space (good for growing veggies = free food) to 2 large houses with postage stamp gardens.
The local vicar lives in one of them, while the rectory was divided into 2 (I think. Ppossibly 3) dwellings and sold to private buyers.
I'm just glad that I got to know 1xG Granddad and to have memories of the little cottage.
I have to wonder though how a young couple with small children in 2 room accomdation managed to err... have more children. I suppose they "lived" in the kitchen (if they had one) and mom/dad slept in one room with the children bunking in together in the other room?
-
No, sadly they knocked the cottages down a long time ago and instead built a very large 4 bed semi (well two techincally, I suppose ;D ) in what used to be the gardens.
Oh, that's a shame ... :(
I have to wonder though how a young couple with small children in 2 room accomdation managed to err... have more children. I suppose they "lived" in the kitchen (if they had one) and mom/dad slept in one room with the children bunking in together in the other room?
Maybe ... or maybe they all shared the same room/bed. ;) I don't think they expected the same privacy in days gone by, as we do today.
-
I've just started reading 'The Five' by Hallie Rubenhold which gives a fairly gruesome description of living conditions in London in the late 1880s (for the poor obviously!). People living in lodging houses with "all lodgers...entitled to make use of the communal kitchen which was open all day and late into the night." (Ch 1). Ch 2 continues 'most families shared one room, the average size of which measured from 8 feet to 10 feet, by 8 feet, and from 6 to 8 feet from floor to ceiling...one large timber-framed and plaster house had been subdivided into three separate dwellings, before being apportioned once more into individually rented rooms.'
A bit earlier than the period you're looking for but gives an idea of what it may have been like.
I can highly recommended the book by the way if anyone is interested in Victorian history!