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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: muso_bob on Tuesday 14 June 11 04:30 BST (UK)
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I have an address for my mother living at c/o Ghobrail, 152 West Graham Street, Glasgow C.4.
I have no knowledge of such a place - the address in West Graham Street does not seem to exist today. My mother who died overseas was there mid year 1946.
I hope the wonderful team of RC'ers can show some light or direction my way.
Thank you, Robert
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Hi Robert
Have a look at this site it may give you some info
http://www.glasgowguide.co.uk/info-streetschanged2.html
Yours Aye
BruceL
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Forgive me if I have misunderstood your query but surely Ghobrail is the surname of the householder or similar? Doesn't seem to be a common name but a quick Google suggests foreign, possibly Asian, origins?
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West Graham Street is still where it always was! In an area called Garnethill, very city-centre, just behind Sauchiehall Street. At one time it had a large Jewish population but in the 1950s & 60s it became quite rundown. Nowadays it's a little more up-market.
http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?x=258494&y=666204&z=0&sv=G4%209LJ&st=PostCode&lu=N&tl=~&ar=y&bi=~&mapp=map.srf&searchp=ids.srf
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The address is an even number, these appear to have been on the north side of the street of which little remains.
Also the motorway cut right through the higher numbers at the end of the street. There are still some odd numbers on the south side opposite Stow College but doesn't look like they go as high as the hundreds.
Another casualty of the motorways I'm afraid.
You might like to try the pics on the Virtual Mitchell.
http://www.mitchelllibrary.org/virtualmitchell/
Just select street search and type the street in.
Good luck! :)
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but in the 1950s & 60s it became quite rundown. Nowadays it's a little more up-market.
Aye but it had loads of character and great community spirit! ;)
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Thank you once again lodger and fifer 1947. Most interesting. Thank you as well bleckie for your link.
Robert
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Dear Imber I have no idea what the Ghobrail alludes to. It may well be a name, I have also seen now that it is quite an uncommon name. A document I have is an address on an envelope to my mother in 1946.
My Mother's Name
c/o Ghobrail
152 West Graham Street,
Glasgow C.4.
I would have thought if it was a person's name it would have had some sort of Title or initial. So I was wondering if it was a building or company name?
I am sorry if it created confusion for you, it certainly did for me.
Regards, Robert
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I think it was quite common to address someone as c/o (surname). Certainly correspondence to people staying with my grandparents in Glasgow just after the war was c/o Lindsay. They stayed in a tenement and the custom then was to have a brass plaque or similar with just the surname on the front door. Given what was said above by others the name might be Jewish? I guess most Asian names appeared later than 1946?
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Thanks again Imber. That convention is unknown to me as although born in Scotland myself I have lived in Australia most of my life. I also recall at University my English Professor telling me that it was common to write a letter beginning: Dear Smith for example - completely disregarding the Christian Name. Here that would have been deemed uncouth. Cheers, Robert
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Electoral Roll might help or Glasgow Directory?
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Thanks fifer 1947, do you know if they are available on Line perchance. I will be coming to UK beginning of 2012 and intend going to Northumberland for my mother's roots and would easily go to wherever I can access the directories while there. Online would help now rather than wait. BUt, will do whatever I have to do. Cheers,
Robert
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The voters roll are held at the Mitchell library in Glasgow and are not available online
The address can be found online on the 1913 valuation roll (http://www.theglasgowstory.com/valindex.php)
It is a tenement block with 10 dwellings, occupiers are fairly "white collar" types, the rent value is quite high (around 2 - 3 times higher than in the East end of Glasgow).
No foreign names in 1913
Jim
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Some directories here, but only to 1911:
http://www.nls.uk/family-history/directories/post-office
As regards being addressed by surname I have only once received a letter starting "Dear Ayers", but that was from an ancient and very upmarket senior civil servant. I was tempted to use a similar style in my response but played safe by calling him "Sir John".
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Could it be a Scottish gaelic derivative of Gabriel?
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Just to clarify (as I have not seen this stated in the thread), c/o Ghobrail means CARE OF Ghobrail.
CARE OF was a fairly common manner of address when you were sending a letter to someone who was lodging or staying with a family of another surname. Very common just post-war when many families were dispersed. Don't know if c/o was a Scottish convention only.
See http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/care_of
Also, a quick Google search on Ghobrail suggest that it is a rare, but real enough, surname - with origins in Middle East.
Glasgow street directory 1933 - 152 West Graham Street - D Clark
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Yeah! you are right Imber..this was common practice in Scotland when living with relatives, or living in furnished rooms. No tittle ...just the c/o name. I would think the name could be foreign... maybe a friend or landlord.
Myyran
good luck
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This must be connected...
There is a GHOBRIAL birth in Milton, Glasgow in 1947 (the only one with that surname - also using wildcards to pick up on spelling variantions - between 1855-1970).
There is also a Ghobrial marriage (groom's surname) in Blythswood, Glasgow showing in 1939.
These entries are showing on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk. Unfortunately, these two entries are past the cut off to be viewed on line (1910 for births and 1935 for marriages currently) and would need to be ordered or looked up personally at one of the main Scottish genealogy centres.
Monica :)
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Well spotted Monica ;)
The ai / ia mix-up is a common spelling error
The 1939 groom's name is Henein Ghobrial (middle Eastern perhaps?)
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What a wonderful group you all are, thank you. All this information answers quite a bit. In Australia, where I am c/o also means "care of". Ghobrial not Ghobrail spelling difference - I have experienced this with other names I am researching south of the Scottish border. Glasgow is definitely on my to do list when in the area in the new year. Thank you all for your interest, input and tips for me to follow. Robert
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Bob, I don't know if this will be helpful but I was living at 152 west graham st in 1946. I was 6 years old. My mother was Cristina Ghobrial née Gannon. My fathers name was Henein Ghobrial. As I remember my mother disappeared at that time for a year or more, I was sent to London to be with my father. Please contact me. I am now living in the US.
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If you are writing to Joe Soap who is lodging, staying with or visiting John Chalk at 123 Main Street , it would be, and still is, perfectly correct to address your letter to
Mr Joe Soap
c/o Chalk
123 Main Street
In fact this would have been essential if Joe Soap had been staying in a flat in a tenement block where all the flats shared the same street number, otherwise the postman wouldn't know which flat to deliver the letter to.
I've had things sent to me c/o friends, and on occasion c/o a hotel, as recently as last year.
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Dear Syd_gabriel. Thank you so much - this is unbelievable! Your address is on my birth certificate - I was born in 1946 at the hospital in Possill Road and my mother was living at 152 West Graham Street. My mother lived there for I do't know how long. On my shipping list departure from UK our last address was 152 West Graham Street. So you and I were living in there at the same time.
I would like to contact you privately, however, you have to have, I think, 3 posts before you can post PM's. I am most keen to discuss anything with you.
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Dear forfarian,
Thank you for your information regarding the formality of addresses and post details. I appreciate every little 'local knowledge' tidbits. Australia tends to be less formal. You are very kind.
Regards, Robert
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I live in hope that Syd_Gabrial sees this post. I have not been able to contact you since you ewplied ages ago April 2013 - you said you lived in the house at 152 west Graham Street Glasgow where my mother was living and I for a short while after my birth in 1946. If Syd_Gabrial can create 2 posts on the site here then I can contact you privately to discussas you offered in your one and only post.
Here's hoping. Robert
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I just saw your message contact me re 152 west graham st.
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@muso_bob post 2, please contact.
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Nothing to add,
How astonishing to find such a coincidence & the likelihood of it, unbelievable :o
The power of the internet, fascinating to say the least.
I hope you both find plenty to chat & find out about ;D
Good luck,
Annie
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The marriage is now available to be viewed on SP and will show the address for bride and groom
GHOBRIAL
KAMEL HENEIN
Spouse surname
GANNON
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I too have been looking for information on 152 West Graham Street. I was born here and stayed until I was 5 or 6. Without physically trying to check I think this section of the street is underneath the off ramp onto Great Western Road. It must have been cleared around 1954 and we went to Carntyne others to Ruchazie or new schemes like Drumchapel. The catchment nondom school drill is Garnetbank in Renfrew street.
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Hi Rob & welcome to RC :)
It's a pity Bob & Syd didn't state if they'd managed to communicate via the PM system.
However, the latest VRs (Valuation Rolls) for 1940 are available to view which should name the Owner/Proprietor of 152 West Graham Street although not named on the index ???
Annie
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Valuation Rolls
GHOBRIAL
KAMEL
TENANT
HOUSE 26 MINERVA STREET
GLASGOW
1940
The marriage was 1939
GHOBRIAL
KAMEL HENEIN
and
GANNON
CHRISTINA
1939
at
BLYTHSWOOD
Another marriage with that surname
GHOBRIAL
ONSI SAMUEL
and
FRICKLETON
HELEN
1972
at
POLMONT AND MUIRAVONSIDE
Can't see any deaths in Scotland