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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: LoesLamb on Tuesday 14 June 11 00:12 BST (UK)
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Sunderland, 1901, boarders with the family of Thomas Graham (1854, London):
William Elton, travelling gymnast (1871) and his wife Sarah.
Ben Elton,traveling gymnast (1872)and his wife Lily (1872).
Two children, 2 yr old William and 8 months old Lilian.
William born in India, all the others in Birmingham.
I suspect William is gt uncle William John Bennett, who I couldn't find in the 1901 census at all. He was born in Belgaum, Bombay, India, July 1870. In 1911 William John Bennett lived in Durham with his wife Sarah, son Alfred (1901) and daughter Lilian, who was supposed to be 9 at the time. William and Alfred were acrobats, Sarah a statue artiste. Boarders again. 6 Children, 3 died. Alfred was stayng with his grandparents Bennett in Hulme, Lancashire. Williams brother George Frederick Bennett was also a gymnast on stage, living in Sheffield.
I did not find any William Elton before or after 1901.
Ben and Lily Elton I found in 1911, again as boarders. They claim to be married for 6 years, and they had two children, both still living.
I can't see a marriage between Ben Elton and a Lily, no birth for a Lilian Elton in 1900, or William Elton around 1899 in Birmingham etc. No Ben Elton birth or censuses at all before 1901.
So I think that young William (couldn't find him in 1911) and Lilian were Bennett children.
A long introduction to my questions: does anyone know of acrobats called Bennett or Elton in the early 1900's, and what could have become of them? And who was Ben Elton?
Would the name Elton be a mistake in Williams case, or would it have been a stage name?
And what could the addition with the occupation mean (see attached image from 1901 census), Exhil? Echil?
Loes
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Looking at the second last entry on this page for Daniel Gordon to compare it seems to be "Exhib"
Short for Exhibition? There is a faintly written addition for the other people on this page eg for Thomas Wallhead - first entry - who is down as an Ale store manager with "Pub"written faitly above it.
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How could I have missed the Lion Tamer! I thought had seen all those additions on that page, I clearly didn't. Exhib it is.
Exhibitionist: a person who behaves in ways intended to attract attention or display his or her powers, personality, etc.
That's a definition that makes sense.
Loes
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The annotations have been added by the census clerk extracting occupations, which are catargorised into Orders and Sub-Orders. In this case;
Order III Professional Occupations and their Subordinate Services.
Sub-Order 8. Exhibitions, Games, etc.
1. Performers, Showmen; Exhibtion, Games - Service.
On the original form the annotations will be in a different colour. There were 32,215 in this category in 1901
Stan
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Just like we see ourselves now on the 1911 household images. I realize now that explains the many mistakes and wrong spellings. It wasn't only the enumerator (I often accuse them of having had liquid lunches), there was the first transcriber as well (not accusing, it must have been a tedious job doing that all day long).
I suppose the originals of 1901 were all destroyed? It might have shown wether the name Elton was copied wrong on the list.
So, as I thought, the additions must add some extra information. Which reminds me of a 1911 record, but I'd better make that a new thread, nothing to do with the "Eltons".
Loes
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I suppose the originals of 1901 were all destroyed? It might have shown wether the name Elton was copied wrong on the list.
Loes
All the original census schedules up to 1901 were destroyed. The censuses were carried out for government statistical purposes, and not for the benefit of future family historians ;D
The only reason the 1911 originals exist is that the system was changed and enumerators did not copy the schedules into books, as the analysis was done by punched cards.
Stan
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It surprises me all the time how much was kept anyway.
Loes
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Bit of a career change from slasher in cotton mill RG12; Piece: 3224; Folio 86; Page 49 to gymnast!
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I don't know when he became one. Maybe at the same time as his brother George Frederick, three years younger. He was a warper in a cotton mill in 1891 (Salford or Hulme). When George married in 1897 in Dewsbury, Yorkshire, he was a Gymnast. The couple's address was the same of the witnesses, theatre people: Frederick McLaughlin Clive and his mother Sarah Emma. She was the widow of Samuel Cecil M. L. (Mclaughlin) Clive, aka Wybert Clive. His bloody story: http://www.melmorrisfamilytree.com/2/1410.htm
Possibly the two brothers got to know the Clives when they played in Manchester 1890/91.
Loes
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I don't know when he became one. Maybe at the same time as his brother George Frederick, three years younger. He was a warper in a cotton mill in 1891 (Salford or Hulme). When George married in 1897 in Dewsbury, Yorkshire, he was a Gymnast. The couple's address was the same of the witnesses, theatre people: Frederick McLaughlin Clive and his mother Sarah Emma. She was the widow of Samuel Cecil M. L. (Mclaughlin) Clive, aka Wybert Clive. His bloody story: http://www.melmorrisfamilytree.com/2/1410.htm
Possibly the two brothers got to know the Clives when they played in Manchester 1890/91.
Loes
Interesting - I'm the Mel Morris that reported this story - Sarah Emma Parkinson was my 2x Great Aunt - and your are right Wybert Clive's story is very bloody - but I have had great trouble finding his birth or baptism - I think he must have been a bit economical with the truth on his marriage cert. He claimed to be born in Edinburgh, but no indication that this is true. Anyone who has any info on Wybert that I don't have I'd love to have it.
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That's a nice surprise!
After I found your great site I wondered what the connection could be with the Clives and a boy in Salford. it's been a while, but I vaguely remember quite a few Clives in the theatre world, relatives? I'll have a good look at it again.
I always meant to contact you about that marriage. Being witnesses must have meant something personal, and what I remember of the censuse, the Clives wouldn't just have anybody as boarders.
I have the feeling that the Bennett boy's training ground was in Ordsall Hall, Salford. They lived nearby. Sounds pretty posh, but in 1875 it was let to Haworth’s Mill for use as a working men’s club. The Great Hall was converted into a gymnasium after being cleared of the inserted floor and later partitions, and provision was made elsewhere for billiards, a skittle alley, and a bowling green. In 1883 the hall was bought by the Earl Egerton of Tatton, and restored during 1896–8.
Very recently I was sent a 1887 newspaper article that showed the whole building still being in use by a workmen's club (it stayed like that, or at least part of the building, until the 1940's). So I presume the gymnasium was still there.
Did you find any more Wybert Clive activities in Manchester, except what's on your website?
Loes
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I have hundreds of newspaper clippings culled from The Era referencing Wybert Clive - if you give me some dates I can see if they also include your interests. I also have access to the Online Era for 19th century if you want any look ups. Interestingly Sarah Emma's sister in law (my 2x ggm) also let out apartments in Dewsbury.
To answer the person who said it was a strange career change - I had the same situation James Parkinson (Sarah's brother) appeared to suddenly drop being a Carpet Weaver in Dewsbury and turned up in Greenock Scotland as a Theatre Properties Manager - it seemed incongruous - until I realized that Sarah Emma had married an actor and then surmised that she and Wybert encouraged him to switch careers. It took me forever to find them in the 1881 census (in the pre online census days!!)
Let me know if I can be of help
regards
Mel Morris
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I just received an email from Ordsall Hall, a reply to a mail I had sent some time ago. I says this:
"I'm afraid that we do not have any extant pictures or details in the Ordsall Hall archive that relate specifically to the gymnasium that was in the Hall in the 1890s. What I do know is that the gymnasium would have been in the Hall up until approximately 1894 so your great uncles may well have used it.
Do you know if your great uncles worked for Haworth's mill in Ordsall? If they did, for a small fee (6 pence a month), they would have been able to use the gymnasium at the Hall as they liked (within opening hours). Richard Howarth's was one of the largest cotton mills in England in the 1880-1890s
Interestingly, a lot of travelling circuses performed around the Ordsall area in the late Victorian times. Many performances were held along the banks of the nearby River Irwell. Is it possible that your great uncles may have had connections with these as well?"
This is what I know about the brothers. I don't know if they ever performed together. I'm sorry if I'm repeating myself, this is a copy of an email that I sent to Ordsall Hall, I left the Clive connection out of the copy:
Both brothers were born in India (father a soldier from Manchester who married a girl in Tullamore, transferred later to the 108th regiment, and served for 12 years in India).
They were in fact my late husband's gt uncles.
In the 1891 census William John Bennett (1870), married a year earlier (Sarah Coleman from Birmingham), first son Alfred on the way, lived in Ardwick Street Salford. He was a slasher in a Cotton mill. Which mill I don't know, but Haworth's was nearby.
In 1901 I found him in Sunderland, with his wife, another son and a daughter, both born in Birmingham, but under the name Elton. could me a mistake, another Elton in the same house, also a traveling gymnast, or it could be a stage name. The oldest son was in Salford with his grandparents.
In 1911 they were boarding in Durham, William and son Alfred both acrobats, wife Sarah a Statue Artiste.
George Frederick (1873) was still living with his parents in 1891, Derwent Street, Cotton warper (again, I don't know where).
In 1897 he married Sarah Canterbury in Dewsbury (her family lived in or near Sheffield). After that he lived in Sheffield, but I can't find him in 1911, he must have been on the road, maybe using a stage name. His wife and children were at home in Sheffield. He was definitely still alive in 1915.
Some time ago I did a newspaper search (1800-1900) myself, I soon found out it was useless to look for the name Bennett, even with other keywords. Yes, there were Bennett brothers, but they were different people, also a George Bennett, a black comedian, if I remember right.
I did however save a "wanted" page from the ERA. 1887, I don't know why I didn't pick later ones. Maybe a search for acrobats AND Salford didn't give more results or I thought the adverts weren't useful.
Seeing that page again, I realize the names of companies, circuses, theatre managers would be worth looking into. So I'd better plan a good newspaper session again. I can select just the ERA looking for possible recruitments. And the Manchester papers could be worthwhile.
Then, after 1900, the most important period, I can't find the ERA online at all, just the Stage. The snippets for quick viewing show no context at all, making a search very unpleasant. Do you know of any other sources?
Loes (living in Amsterdam)
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The Three Elton's were my Grandfather and his brothers. My Grandfather Alfred Bennett left the trio to join the army in 1914. My father William , (my name also) who is now 85, can still recall his father;s army number. I have a photograph of my Grandfather in his uniform (see attached) my father has photos of the brothers and their sisters, if its of any interest to anyone. If someone is actively trying to research the brothers my father would be happy to help. Please email me with any questions (*)
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Bill, I have tried to send an email, but it bounced. I will send it again as a Rootschat Personal Message.
Loes