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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: swish on Sunday 12 June 11 11:56 BST (UK)
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Please help me find ancestors and siblings for John Henry Nuttall who lived in Burnley and would have been born in the late 1800's.
His father's name was William
He was the "common law" husband of Elizabeth Ann Sharples (the ancestor I inquired about yesterday).
There may be no marriage document, although they had two children, Elsie and John.
Elsie, my grandmother, was born in 1908. Her brother, John was born before that.
Further details: Elizabeth was married in 1900 to John William Starkie.
Thank you for your time.
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Hi,
I can see a John Henry Nuttall born in Burnley in circa 1881 and he is the Royal Artillery Barracks in London on the 1901 census.
Class: RG13; Piece: 569; Folio: 94; Page: 15
If this is your John Henry Nuttall there are military records available. The military records give his next of kin as Aunt Susannah Duckworth, 1 Clifton Old Road, Burnley. His occupation is weaver.
I wonder if this is his previous marriage before his common law one to Elizabeth Sharples:-
3rd qtr 1902
Farnham 2a 283
Annie Lilley
John Henry Nuttall
Alfred Richards
Alice Smith
www.freebmd.org.uk
(This marriage possibly took place on 2 Aug 1902 at Farnham Registry Office and the bride's full name was Alice Sarah Martha Smith)
If both parties were previously married (and John Henry is recorded as being married in 1911) this would explain why they were unable to marry each other and therefore were "common law" husband and wife. Divorce was out of the question for many people as it was expensive.
There is a possible death for John Henry Nuttall. He was aged 70:-
4th qtr 1950
Nelson 10e 622
Hope this helps.
Luzzu
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Have you got 1881 details
RG11 4146/76/35
47 Royle Road,Burnley
William Addison 56 cotton weaver b Colne
Sarah Addison 43 wife ditto b Burnley
Mary A Nuttall 26 married boarder cotton weaver b Blackburn
John H Nuttall 11mths gr son b Burnley
Henry Taylor 34 boarder firebeater in cotton mill b Burnley
Margaret Nuttall 17 boarder cotton weaver b ditto
Hannah Nuttall 36 boarder cotton weaver b Skipton Yorks
Mary H Nuttall 9 boarder scholar b Accrington
Cant make sense of whose who but hes the onlyJohn H who fits details from 1911
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Trying to work out if Aunt Susannah Duckworth fits and she does :D:-
Marriage
William Nuttall
Mary Ann Riley
3rd qtr 1878 Burnley 8e 295
Marriage
Abraham Duckworth
Susannah Riley
3rd qtr 1868 Burnley 8e 316
So it looks like she was his mother's sister and the Duckworth family were living at Clifton Road, Burnley in 1901 - RG13 3874 145 33. Not found any siblings yet but he had plenty of cousins ;D.
Luzzu
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Do you know when John Henry's parents died? Presumably before 1901 if he names his aunt as next of kin.
Mary Ann Nuttall is recorded as married on the 1881 census that Isobelruss found but no sign of husband, William.
There is a death for a Mary Ann Nuttall, aged 39, 3rd qtr 1892 Burnley 8e 159. She was buried in Burnley Cemetery on 24 Dec 1892 and her last address was Hampden Street. However can't find her in 1891.
Can't find John Henry in 1891 either.
Luzzu
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Interesting information here. But it opens a lot of mysteries.
Why is John Nuttall listed as "gr son" in the Addison household?
According to today's other posts, his mother's maiden name was Riley, and of course his dad's side is Nutall. I am also confused as to who all these other Nuttalls are, living in the Addison house.
Luzzu, My aunt's notes say nothing about when or how John's father, William, died, but we didn't have his mother's name (which you and the others have now supplied). All it says is that she died early. (John must have been about 14 at the time.) So I might guess that, William Nuttall lived longer and perhaps was around to meet the next generation.
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1871
John Street,Habergham Eaves
RG10 4150/123/30
Abraham Duckworth 23 cotton mill lab b Clitheroe
Susannah 21 wife b Burnley
Mary E 1 dau b ditto
Mary A Riley 17 sister in law b Blackburn
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Isy, I see you have Rileys in your list. Do Mary and Susannah tie in to your family tree?
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No my Rileys were from Halifax and Rochdale.
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When I posted the information earlier about the Mary Ann Nuttall burial in 1892, I should have given you a link to the Burnley Cemetery burials as there are loads of Nuttalls for you to have a look at:-
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Burnley/cemetery/index.html
Re the 1881 census information Isobelruss posted, I did find a marriage on www.freebmd.org.uk that fits:-
2nd qtr 1865 Burnley 8e 200
William Addison
James Butterworth
Sarah Nuttall
Margaret Smith
There is a public tree on A******y that says William Nuttall, aged 20, married Sarah Ann Riley on 23 March 1878 at Holy Trinity Church, Habergham Eaves, Burnley and that William Addison was recorded as the father of William Nuttall. The witnesses were Abraham Duckworth :D and Sarah Shuttleworth.
So it is looking to me like William Nuttall was the illegitimate son of Sarah Nuttall and William Addison was his step-father.
I tried to look for a corresponding birth reference but there were several William Nuttalls born in 1858. On the LancsBMD there is one registered in Bury North (ref BN/21/60) with the mother's maiden name as Nuttall ??? so indicating an illegitimate birth.
www.lancashirebmd.org.uk
Then it gets worse because in 1871:-
William Addison 48 head mar cotton weaver born Colne
Sarah Addison 34 wife mar cotton weaver born Burnley
James Addison 13 son sgle cotton weaver born Burnley
Maria Addison 9 dau sgle cotton weaver born Burnley
William Nutter (sic) 11 nephew sgle cotton weaver born Harwood
John Bramwood 5 lodger wdr cotton weaver born Warrington
Mary Smith 79 lodger wdw general servant born Carlton, Yorkshire
Class: RG10; Piece: 4157; Folio: 108; Page: 9; GSU roll: 846738
So now he is William Addison's nephew ???,
It does look like Sarah Nuttall was William Addison's second wife. On the 1851 census he was still single and in 1861 his wife was Mary.
Possible marriage:-
1st qtr 1857 Burnley 8e 205
William Addison
Mary Brunton
Mary Preston
Joseph Shackleton
I am guessing he married Mary Preston judging by the number of Preston relatives living with them in 1861 including two of her children, probably from a previous marriage.
What a tangle web we weave ;D.
So it all sort of fits together.
Luzzu
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So, looking at John H. Nuttall's dad, William Nuttall (1860-1998), it looks like he was the illigitimate son of Sarah Nuttall (b. 1838). Is there any information about Sarah's parents?
William would have been about 5-7 years younger than his wife Mary Ann Riley. He didn't stay around very long. Most likely their marriage didn't work out. But where did he go? Did he remarry? or was he in the military?
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The 1861 census for Sarah Nuttall, I think, confirms that William Nuttall was illegitimate. It also confirms her parents as William and Mary Nuttall. I think you would really need to obtain Sarah Nuttall's birth certificate to get her mother's maiden name. The problem is Nuttall is a very common name in Lancashire and there are many Sarahs. Civil registration for BMD only started in Sept 1837 so before that date you need to start researching parish records (I would confirm as much as I could after 1837 before trying to go further back. Sarah isn't their oldest child as in 1851 there is a Thomas Nuttall, 1 year older than Sarah. Also in 1851 there is Alice Nuttall born in circa 1842 between Elizabeth and David.
1861
William Nuttall 47 head mar engine tenter born Burnley
Mary Nuttall 50 wife mar born Ireland
Sarah Nuttall 22 dau sgle cotton weaver born Burnley
Elizabeth Nuttall 20 dau sgle cotton weaver born Burnley
David Nuttall 15 son sgle stoker born Burnley
Henry Nuttall 12 son sgle cotton weaver born Burnley
William Nuttall 6 son sgle scholor born Burnley
William Nuttall 10 months grandson infant born Great Harwood
RG9/3069/ 50 p 24
You've got a massive amount of information to go through now and you might need to draw some diagrams :D and maybe order some certificates to confirm all of this and see where to go next. Like many of us you probably need to be selective as they cost £9.25 each. If you want to order any you can do it online at www.gro.gov.uk
Have a great day in Burnley.
Luzzu
PS re William Nuttall (father of John Henry and wife of Mary Ann Riley) - he didn't go far if that's him buried in Burnley Cemetery in 1898.
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OK, thank you Luzzu and others, I think this is as far as I can go on my grand mother's side for now. I will now start work on my grandfather's side. We leave in 3 days to visit England and we're just so excited. This information will provide such an important background for our trip.
This lookup is COMPLETED
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Hi, Sorry this seems a delayed answer to your posting, but I have only just seen your thread, and
have just been amazed to see this posting ...
My great Grandfather was John Henry Nuttall..
Weaver from Blackburn !!
He was originally married to my great Grandmother Alice Sarah Martha Smith ( Tottenham, London )..they had my Nan Florence and her brother Wilfred in Barnoldswick, Lancs.
At some point, Alice ran away with the 2 children, back to her family in London.
I then found John Henry on the 1911 Census as a 'Lodger' with Elizabeth Starkie. I noticed that the 2 children had the name "Nuttall-Starkie" - put 2 & 2 together and came up with 10 !! LOL....
I sent off for the birth cert. for the little girl called Elsie b. 11 Mar 1908...it says her name is Elsie Nuttall..Father John William Starkie...Mother Elizabeth Starkie , formerly Sharples.
In the right hand column, a statement has been typed..
" In column 4 ( fathers name ) OMIT John William Starkie, and in column 6 ( Fathers occupation ) OMIT Cotton Weaver...Corrected 23rd December 1938 by me, James Hornby, Supt. Registrar on production of statutory declarations by John William and Elizabeth Starkie.
Would love to talk more about all this ! :)
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St Luke Brierfield
7TH of July 1900
John William Starkie,20,cotton weaver,bachelor of 31 Pendle Street Nelson
Elizabeth Sharples,19,spinster ,cotton weaver of 29 Junction Street
grooms father Barnard Starkie,cotton weaver
brides father John Sharples,cotton weaver
witness to marriage ,Thomas Ashworth and Grace Walton Ashworth
Elsie Nuttal Starkie,reistered Nelson,Preston 1908,mother Sharples
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Hi Swish, thanks so much for your reply..sorry I can't Private Message you yet because I havn't done 3 postings on the forum yet ! ? Anyway I wondered how much info you had about John Henry Nuttall ? He has been the bane of my life !! in research terms. I was thrilled to find him when the 1911 census was opened in the UK last year , but that led to confusion, with the Starkie connection - and the children Elsie ( your gran ) and John Vincent.
As they had the name Nuttall on their Birth certs, and as the amendment was made many years later - does this mean that they were actually John Henry Nuttalls children, therefore my nans half siblings for sure ? We have no photo's of John Henry Nuttall, although I have a wedding photo which I am sure shows my Gt Gran Alice Smith standing next to a man who MAY be J.H ? We have no idea whos wedding it was. I don't suppose you have any pictures of him ?
We now also realise that if he and Alice never divorced - she re-married BIGAMOUSLY!! in 1918, to a policeman !! The wedding cert says shes a widow...but I have always had my doubts !! There are so many J H Nuttall deaths, it is almost impossible to narrow down, unless you have any more info ?
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Seeing your post mentioning Abraham & Susannah Duckworth has prompted me to join Rootschat. I went to Burnley last Sunday and found their grave, which is also the grave of Mary Ann Nuttall (Riley). There was no stone to mark the spot, but I am confident that I found the correct patch of grass. My Grandfather James was Abraham & Susannah's son, so we are distant cousins. Can send you photos when I have worked out how this site works.